A warning to any dog owners living in this are and using the park, be careful and if you see anything suspicious then report it to the police and do not go straight home in case you are followed. This was not an isolated incident!

> I had a very unnerving experience in Alexandra Park this morning. Two
> men took an unhealthy interest in M and O. I am sure
> their intentions were far from honourable, and had 3 or 4 dog-walkers
> not approached with a pack of dogs, I think M would have been
> snatched. They had with them a blond male Saluki - very emaciated -
> and a tan lurcher with a limp. The girls were racing around when I
> heard someone whistling and noticed these two men plus dogs in the
> distance. At first I thought they must have another dog somewhere
> which they were recalling. But then they started to approach my two -
> still whistling. So I recalled them (fortunately they respond
> brilliantly to recall even though they're not quite six months old).
> I started to do a detour and the next thing they came jogging up and
> cut me off. One of them asked me if I would mind letting my pups run
> with their lurcher to assist the repair of a torn ligament (looked to
> me like it needed resting and feeding up). I said that the girls only
> had eyes for each other and went to move off but the other one of the
> two had his hands on M and was giving her the once-over. They
> were commenting on her to each other such as 'look at the knuckles'
> (? don't ask me)and "Saluki cross" and "she'll make about 23"... And
> I started to feel really concerned. I called her and she tried to
> come to me but he had her collar. O is very shy and kept her
> distance. In any case, from what they were saying, M was the
> focus of their interest - she is very fast, much faster than O
> and they must have been watching her for a while before I noticed
> them because they commented on how fast she was. Fortunately, the dog-
> walkers approached and I made as if I knew them and said I had to go.
> The man released M but not before checking her name tag (I think
> for her address which wasn't there). They then followed me at a
> distance all the way through the park. The dog-walkers escorted me to
> the exit and the two men followed, so I took out my mobile phone and
> made as if I was making a call. Then I took a detour home and next
> time I looked round they had gone. What a nightmare! I was so shaken -
> yet in fact, they did nothing wrong. Nothing you could report them
> for - but I'm sure it wasn't paranoia on my part.

Admin Edit
Edited 27.1.03, please see LadyG's post below in case this happens to you as she gives some good advice

It doesn't sound like paranoia to me, I think you deserve a medal for such quick thinking.. whatever the case you and your dogs are safe!! Thats the main thing.It's always better to be "Safe" than "Sorry"..Have a hot cuppa and thank goodness everythings fine..(except for the poor dogs in the care of those men :( If they are dog snatchers I hope they're caught very quickly) With you reporting the incident on this site hopefully other people will be aware of them and something will be done soon.. :)

Regards Sandy xx

I maybe asking a dumb question but are all breeds attractive to thieves? and is dog stealing a common occurrence?
I have just read the searching board and see a lot of dogs lost etc and one in my county taken from a car !
My husband is always having a go at me not to leave our puppy in the car for a minute to pop in a shop or leave him tied outside the newsagents with one of the children etc....he is always paranoid over home security so I tend to ignore his comments and think he is being over protective
and getting worried over nothing, am I too trusting?

I could never imagine anyone being so cruel as to steal a dog so the information above has really brought me down to earth with a bump as it certainly sounded like the men had dishonest intentions.Thank godness there were other people around & I will be carrying my mobile on all walks now just in case.

jude

Latest figures seem to show that there are about 50,000 dogs stolen each year. That's a lot of unhappy families :(

thats frightening !!! -might pay you to try and take an adult with you at all times [adult dog :D] i know youre a grown up :D

I never leave my dog in the car, unless i can actuallly see her and the car is close by. I have totally re-arranged my days since 2 dogs got stolen in a car park not far from us - a Lab and a Lurcher type :(

Apparently supermarket car parks are quite common place for this to happen :(

Lindsay

Thankfully most times my pup stays at home when I go out for any length of time but it is the quick jobs I do where he gets left in the car and I guess it only takes a few minutes to get in and steal a dog .
this is certainly a lesson to me, I even usually leave my car unlocked !

I find it astounding that so many dogs are stolen per year, you can replace materialistic items but a pet.

jude

whereabouts is Alexandra park? I know there is one near barnet, is it the same one?

I think the 50,000 must be in the US as that would be nearly a quarter of the dogs registered (not born) last year. I know the numbers here (UK) are high but that is stretching it a bit.

Sam, I have no idea where in London Alexandra Park is - I thought this particular warning worth passing on so did so :(

Christine

Blimey Christine - I read it that it had happened to you !!!
I was just about to come over all concerned and mail you :)
but it is worth passing on warnings
Liz :)

Christine, I think you must be right about that being a US figure - I think I got it from a US site (der! Smack head! :o) When I think about it, there are 25,000 unwanted dogs pts each year, and the number stolen is not likely to be greater!

Sorry to cause unnecessary panic!

No the figure of fifty thousand is here in the UK - it is the figures from the missing pets bureau. That also might be a conservative figure. Are all stolen dogs reported and then collated? The missing pets bureau has not been in operatation for that long. So perhaps a better total and a breakdown of dogs stolen from areas might be more forthcoming at a later date.

The figure in the States is in the hundreds of thousands. Again not sure if there total is a national total. That is one big Country to keep records right across the State.

This information is on the web, and has been in the press.

Coleen

Glad you are ok Christine, and the dogs too. Several months ago, we had a small camp of "travellers" on the field near us, they were moved within 24hrs, but the day they were there they tried to snatch a friends Border Terrier. They were CHILDREN too. They grabbed the dogs lead and tried to pick her up, swearing etc... it was some of the other walkers that helped fend them off. What is it coming to, when you can't even walk your dogs in safety.
Dawn.

Thankfully we live in a quiet village but it has made me think.
However they would have to be pretty brave to attempt to steal 2 ten stone bordeaux slobbering at them!! In fact am pretty sure the bordeaux would put up alot of resistance :-)
Such a sad state of things though when you do not feel safe to walk your dogs :-(

Hi Sam,

Alexandra Park is in Hornsey, North London, next to Alexandra Palace. I live very near but don't walk there, but at my training class there is a lady with a springer spaniel who walks there, and she has probs with recall, and she is very worried about it and warned the whole group. The case above was definately not an isolated incident.

Take care,
Nicola

I think this should be reported to the Police as a suspicious incident if nothing else.
If anything like this should happen to any of you out there please, please try to memorise the people from head to toe. Take note of their accents, dress style, things they said, then as soon as you get the chance write the whole thing down and ring your local police. If you see the people getting in to a vehicle then try to take the registration number but not while risking your own safety. It is horrible to think there are people out there willing to steal beloved pets, but they steal everything else so why not dogs?
Please take care,
Amy

Thanks Nicola,
I will warn my friends who live near there...I had a suspicion it was near them as I have heard them mention the name before
sam

Hi Christine, how awful for you, so glad you and the dogs are safe
Lorna

H Lorna

T'wasn't me I am relieved to say but a message I received from someone else and thought worth passing on.

Christine

Hmm. Makes you think doesn't it? The cheeky scoundrels. The Met have been ordered to concentrate on violent crime so if the lady decided to report this now, after the event, there's not a lot they could do. An incident like that would not be categorised as a crime, there's not enough evidence for an 'attempt theft'. If they had grabbed a dog and made off with it then it's a different story.

If it were reported in Wilsthire, we might despatch a unit (if there was one free) to check out the area. A thief is a thief and if we can trace them back to a car/address we might get further leads out of it, e.g. names or the vehicle may have info markers for other criminal activities. An intelligence report could be submitted to make your local wildlife officer aware.

As dog walkers, we do tend to pick isolated spots to walk in. Unfortunately, carrying the mobile phone is such a hassle but necessary nowadays. I would have rang 999 immediately, in front of them and loudly requested police to attend what you believed to be 'suspicious males attempting to steal my dog right now in front of me' and given a nice loud description of what they look like in their full hearing. Any normal opportunist thief would have scarpered the moment you said 'police'. That poor lady wouldn't have stood a chance if they were intent on stealing the dog so best to take pre-emptive action before they get the chance. If they had taken the dog then at least you've got units on their way already and you can follow at a safe distance to see where they go.

I wonder whether the 'about 23' comment was a guess at the weight of the dog. If so, then these men sound like highly specialised dog thieves. Alternatively, it could have been a code which distraction burglars use frequently. Having made the decision to commit the crime whilst distracting the victim, they drop the code into normal conversation which then alerts their partner in crime who is hiding around the corner. He then sneaks in round the back and burgles the house or on this occasion, disappeared off to get a vehicle ready for the snatching.

To do this in such a public area in daylight shows how successful & professional these thieves must be. The fact that the man looked at the dog's tag (obviously checking for an address to my mind) and they then followed the lady home is particularly alarming and warrants immediate police attendance.

Our animal welfare officer tells me that dogs have been snatched in Wandsworth, London.

Suspicious characters were seen in Ladywell Recreation Ground, Catford, London SE6 last Friday. They asked questions about a dog that were not just normal questions asked by interested people. Warnings will be issued to alert dog owners to be careful.

Michael
27 January 2003

That's really good advice LadyG :-)

I remember having a discussion a while back about what info people put on their dogs id tags. Address was something which cropped up as possibly being against the law if it wasn't on the tag but then I since spoke to a few people and they thought it wasn't against the law to withold the address from tag. Thoughts ?

In this instance it sounds like it was a damn good idea not having the address on the tag as it would be a lot easier for the thieves to remember than say a telephone number.

Okay, so today a man stopped me [$ Jake when we were out for a walk. He had no dog with him and wanted Jake to kiss him (which of course Jake did, tongue and all ]) ). He then asked me if he was expensive, said he was in really good nick and really well conditionned and then, RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME, looked at his ID tag and said, "so, where's his name and your address then, I thought you were sposed to put that on there " !!!!

Needless to say I stopped thinking he was just a nice man who had stopped for a chat, said "good job I didn't, I reckon" and pegged it as fast as possible in the other direction.

Have to say though, it was actually very unnerving and I even checked that he wasn't following as I walked into my drive - Talk about being worried.

For all the pain that the Mock is, I can't imagine being without him and what scares me more is that someone else would find him such hard work, they'd probly throw him out with the rubbish....

beth

Hi there just writing to tell you i had a similar problem a few weeks ago whilst walking my male bullmastiff near the lakes in wellingborough when 2 men came up and started to ask questions about how much i had payed for him etc.He must have took an instant dislike to them and started to pull on the lead and start barking at them.They soon took off.Mind you they thought he was a big staffie!!!!!.I really should of let him off the lead and told them to start running lol.It still left me quite shaken and angry that you can't even take your own dog for a walk without these idiots harrasing you.

Admin edit: terms of service

Hmm, it's difficult to know really, but I have read that law dictates you must have your address on dog tags. I've put my address on mine but then I don't let people fuss my dogs ("Oh he's just rolled in poo" and "He bites so I wouldn't"). Hugo tends to put people off petting him anyway as he tears around and head butts them if they bend down.

If some tyke was deliberately holding onto my dogs I would take massive issues with this. Criminals don't need to dress or speak a certain way to get recognised. Big coats (shop lifters), irish accents or speaking in a different language when thy talk to each other (gypsies), unusual questions (distraction techniques), dirty looking, usually in pairs with vans/cars parked nearby. All drug addicts share that same drawn, sunken 'look' which you can spot a mile off. Anyway all these signs are indicators. No sensible person holds onto a strangers dog whilst checking them out - that's someone elses property and you have every reason to be offended. The sensible thing is to dial 999 immediately & not get into a confrontation with them. But being rather protective of my babes & willing to brawl with most, I'd happily launch myself in their direction screeching like a banshee and putting the boot in, however I'm covered by pre-emptive police powers to do this, even off duty. I'm sure Hugo would help me with the rest ( and has done in the past!) and I'd be tempted to hang onto him if possible until police arrived to have him checked out. (they can check his name/id out and see what previous convictions he has/whether he's wanted for anything) This shouldn't give them the chance to check a tag but if they did then get a good old look at them & write down their name. If your house gets burgled/dog gets stolen within the next 6 months you know who you're after.

Thankfully, Hugo & Bert guard well & I have a noisy gravel drive so they'd have to be pretty damn good to get into my house without a frying pan around the head!

oooooooh I hope i don't meet Hugo whilst out, his owner might bite me :D :D seriously though I do get worried if I'm out on my own sometimes, especially if the gypsys are about. One time a gypsy offered me £50 for my dobe, he kept on and on and started to get offensive so I told him to F off and walked on a different path, although not a wise choice of words he did actually leave me alone, plus I had my sister with me for a bit of verbal back up which was not needed at that point.

I do worry about my pharaoh hound though.

Clair

A Puli has been gone missing/been stolen from Alexandra Palace Park which I believe is the same park I posted the initial mail about :-(

Christine