A friend of mine is looking into breeding her working cocker bitch. It will be her first time breeding and she wants to do everything right re: health tests. But while it's easy to find out what to do on show type cockers, it's not so easy to find out what tests are done on working cockers. They are practically different breeds!
I am guessing that hips and the BVA eye test are a given, plus gonioscopy for glaucoma. But what about optigen for PRA? Elbows? FN?

The same conditions affect working cockers as affect show cockers (though some in the working fraternity will deny it). So do the same tests. :-)

That's as I thought!
I just came across a useful website promoting health testing in working cockers - it suggests hip scoring, BVA eye test, Gonioscopy, Optigen PRA test, and FN test. That sounds about right to me so I will pass this on to my friend :)

They are the same breed but vary hugely in type, but their roots are the same (just liek workign type Labradors or springers) and the same health conditons and tests apply.

"The Working Cocker Spaniel Pro-Health" site will give you all the information you will need.
This is still the original English Cocker Spaniel but just not "designed" by the kennel club!

> This is still the original English Cocker Spaniel but just not "designed" by the kennel club!

That is a little misleading it is the original Kennel club recognised cocker Spaniel and should be bred to the Kennel club standard. 

The difference is that the workers are not bred taking much notice of the physical aspects of the standard, and the show dogs are probably bred with the physical aspects (perhaps somewhat exaggerated in some aspects, like ear length) as laid down in the standard (including temperament) but not taking into account working ability.

Clonmel dog show 1931 http://www.britishpathe.com/video/stills/clonmel-dog-show

In an ideal world the working dog breeders would breed to the standard in all departments, and the show dogs would be bred with preserving working ability.

If one looks at early pictures of Kennel club recognised breeds where there is  a working /show split we will find that both the working and show fraternity have deviated from the standard. For example countess Howe's Labradors are not the often fine racey weak headed working types one often sees, or some of the big heavy low to ground overdone/overweight show specimens

As others have said the same conditions are in the working type but many do not believe this and do not test which is very sad.  I have seen a few in the last year or so that are having a change of heart and testing their dogs which is good and yes the tests have come back with a mix of good and bad results!

We found the Working Cocker Spaniel pro health website and found it very useful. It's great to see that many people are now taking the breed's health seriously. My friend noticed that her bitches half-sister was listed on the site with all good test results, which is positive :)

There is also aother site with interesting reading about the origins and history of the working cocker. "Felstead Gundogs" open site and go to "History" also open "Galleries" cocker champions, where there are a few pictures of proven functional working FTCH dogs showing how the breed varies in looks and size back to the 1920s. The site provides good reading!

It's great to see that many people are now taking the breed's health seriously.

Absolutely!

The Working Cocker (unfortunately) is just as much in the hands of the BYB's today as all other breeds, you've only to look on certain free ad sites to see them advertised as much as the Show Cocker. So no matter what the true Working breeders think and know about their lines health, the Working strain is being abused and bred unhealthily by others along with the Show strain, so it is good to show that all health related tests are being done, both strains need the same tests shown so that people will hopefully source a good breeder for either type of English Cocker.

I have working cockers who are worked & I do bva eye test, Gonioscopy & dna test for both FN & prcd-PRA hope this helps.

We have had a minor breakthrough in the working cockers, as a well known handler has just tested his FTCh, clear FN and prcd-PRA. :-)

As we used his dog at stud last year  (the only dog apart from ours that  I had considered) I was particularly delighted.    Our dog and our bitch are both clear, but it has been an uphill struggle to start getting the 'big trialling boys' in the breed to test - this is a definite start in the right direction.     Why so many of  the top working cocker people were so reluctant to test , yet would happily test their Labs I just don't understand.........

It is still difficult to find proven working cockers with trial/working test results who have had their DNA tests done.   Sadly, in a way, a lot of the working cockers tested to date are in the hands of pet people who haven't done much to prove their dogs' true working  ability......

Jo

I have for many years had my girls eyes BVA checked all of which have been Clear, starting with Dr Startup and now Mr Mason, in the more recent years I have discovered that there are DNA tests for; prcd PRA and FN, of which all of my dogs are now tested and are all clear/normal.
It is good to hear that the "trialling boys" are starting to show some interest as it is so difficult if not impossible to find a good tested male Cocker Spaniel. It is the least we can do if we are going to breed from our dogs! There are many people these days asking if the parents are health tested.  I would seriously like to know where or how to find this FTCH which has been tested for FN and prcd PRA clear!!

Sadly, in a way, a lot of the working cockers tested to date are in the hands of pet people who haven't done much to prove their dogs' true working ability......

Yes, it is unfortunate that it so often has to be one or the other. I personally will always pick the right breeding, type and proven ability over an unproven/indifferent quality dog which has had an eye test, but I then test my own dogs. While I don't like the 'head in the sand' mentality nor do I like the view that many 'pet' breeders have that as long as a dog has a clear DNA/eye test that automatically makes it ok to breed from. Type and working ability are being completely lost in the vast majority of pet breeding.

My bitch is in a minority - she is an OFTW and is health tested (including hip scores). She is trained and handled by one of the 'top guys' and will hopefully be made up to FTCh this coming season. My male dog is also tested; he doesn't trial but he works on both driven and rough shoots but again he's in a minority. 

(My bitch is in a minority an OFTW) ! ! Wow so what.

Can no one give a straight answer to a question! and as far as purchasing/breeding a dog then handing it to a professional trainer to make it up to a FTCH, where is the self satisfaction in that, anyone can have their dog trained by a professional but genuine people do it themselves !
There are many of us who work our cockers in both driven and rough shoots but not everyone wants a "hot" trialed dog in the beating line !

I think it was the health-tested bit that made the dog a minority, not its qualifications. :-) Very few working spaniels have any health tests whatsoever.

Please can we keep this thread on topic (relating to health tests) and polite - Wee Man's post above comes across as unnecessarily rude!

Working cockers, I think a big part of the problem is the 'buyer'.  I advertise as a breeder and I get a lot of calls and e-mails from people looking for pups.  When I enquire what type of lines they are looking for (working or show), the answer is usually, "Oh, we are not bothered about that.  We just want a little cocker"!! This makes me soooo mad!! They might as well be 2 different breeds as far as I'm concerned and I spend a lot of time explaining the difference to people who don't give a cr@p(excuse me but I am so annoyed by this!!).  I never sell a pup to anyone who doesn't know the difference between the lines.  Shows how much research they have done but you know they will find the BYB they are looking for who has a lovely litter from untested working lines(No offence meant but they are ALWAYS working lined pets!!)
Now the new thing with the working line pet bitches is to mate them with poodles.  Where will it end for this lovely breed??

(My bitch is in a minority an OFTW) ! ! Wow so what.

Can no one give a straight answer to a question! and as far as purchasing/breeding a dog then handing it to a professional trainer to make it up to a FTCH, where is the self satisfaction in that, anyone can have their dog trained by a professional but genuine people do it themselves !
There are many of us who work our cockers in both driven and rough shoots but not everyone wants a "hot" trialed dog in the beating line !

Wow well that post clearly went right over your head. If you're going to quote me at least quote the whole sentence as it's pretty clear as others seem to have grasped that I meant that she's a minority because she's a trial winner AND health tested as such dogs are very few and far between; it was all in the same sentence, you just chose to ignore the end of it. Not sure what the relevance of having trialling dogs in the beating line is either but she does do that too and does it just as well as she trials :-)

Cracar you're definitely right, I'm a moderator on a Cocker forum and there are a lot of working Cocker owners on there but only a tiny handful who actually work the dogs, most are pet-bred and in pet homes. There are always people on there and who I meet who have working Cockers who weren't aware there are two strains of the breed and how different they are. People seem to often put more research into buying a new mobile phone than they do a dog.

Wee man - if you PM me, I can give you some details

Jo