Hi, the toy breed puppies are now 2 weeks and doing brilliant, however we are having a slight problem as the dam is producing far too milk for the puppies to drink. We have been expressing her, and encouraging the puppies to drink from alternative teats to even the milk supply and things have been going well. However, yesterday afternoon I noticed a very small amount of a fluidy type yellow pus coming out of one of the top teats mixed in with the pure white milk. The tissue behind the teat was also feeling sort of bulbous. I rushed her to the vets fearing the worst that it was mastitis, the vet advised her temperature was fine, her calcium levels were perfect and the teat felt inflamed but in her opinion it was not mastitis. It was not painful or hot to the touch. After some insisting on my Behalf she expressed some milk and again, the pus was present, upon seeing this she became slightly more concerned advised it may be the very very early onset of mastitis due to my girl having too much milk for the pups to drink. She has prescribed her a 7 day course of noroclav, and advised us to help her by expressing the milk every 2 hours including during the night, and the use of hot compress. 24 hours later, the original teat has cleared up, still feels slightly swollen but the milk is running clear and definitely not bulbous, however the same has happened to a teat towards her rear. Has anybody had any experience with this and could offer some advise. We are trying our best for our girl and I'm worried sick.

If you are expressing milk as well as the pups suckling then that is why there is too much[the word much is missing from the beginning of your post], it is supply and demand, dam only supplies what the pups demand, you are then demanding more which she continues to produce and becomes engorged, you need to stop expressing and the milk supply will slowly reduce to what the pups need, this may take a few days.

She is on antibiotics which will nip any risk of mastitis in the bud.

Expressing the milk in the first place has caused the over-production (her body thinks it has to produce milk for the 'puppies' (ie, you!) that are taking it. The more that's taken the more that will be produced ...

Stop expressing, and any engorged breast use the compresses to ease the discomfort.

thanks for your advise :) we have only been expressing for the past 2-3 days as she has an inverted nipple that had become quite large and i was under the impression as it wasnt being used it may have caused mastitis, during the pregnancy check up vet advised the inverted nipple may have to be expressed if the milk gland was in tact - which it was. the top two teats were just not getting used by the puppies and were beginning to look 'too full' and uncomfortable despite me trying to encourage the pups to use them.
i have read here about aloe vera, has anybody else experienced mastitis that has come on/eased so quickly?

If the pups don't use them then they will simply dry up, by you expressing them the dams body thinks you are another pup it has to provide for so it does resulting in all this extra milk the pups don't want/need and the engorged boobs which you then relieve and so it goes on round and round.

She may be uncomfortable for a day or two till her milk production gets back to normal or the pups may start using these teats if they flow easier only time will tell.

At 2 weeks old, the pups will be taking exactly what they need, and, to be honest, there should be no need at all for you to keep placing pups on a nipple.  I assume there is nothing wrong with the pups?

An inverted nipple could have been left alone, as unused nipples just stop producing milk.  I fear that you have exacerbated the situation.  I am amazed that a vet assumed that a bitch had "too much" milk for pups to drink.  As others have mentioned, it's supply and demand that counts, and you have no need to add your demands.

I honestly never, in all my years of breeding, thought it was normal practise to draw milk off a bitch myself.  It's the job of the puppies.  I am sure that the noroclav will be just fine, but really don't understand why you have been told to express milk yourself.  I certainly wouldn't follow this advice personally.

The only time I have drawn of milk was the infected milk (firstly like Tomato soup, then Mushroom soup, and then finally clear) with a bad case of mastitis (yes it came on within a few hours on Boxing day so cost a bomb to see the vet.

sorry maybe i havent made myself clear, im tired - when i say the vet has advised me to express the milk, she meant the milk from the infected teat/ those teats with mastitis setting in, only if the puppies are reluctant to use them, or they arent being drawn on enough. she said i need to do this to draw the infection out. she told me not to touch the other teats and to not express at all under any circumstance.

it was a different vet who advised me re the inverted nipple. like i said it has only been the past 2-3 days as i was unsure of the best course of action. i am finding out more and more than vets have very little idea when it comes to breeding.

WOW Barbara, I have never seen it that bad. Only one of your bitches would have chosen Boxing Day!  :-(

I only ever had it in one bitch.  I do think it was noticed very early, as the vet told me to purposely put pups on the engorged teat.  It was a Yorkshire Terrier, and I noticed that a teat was extremely red, and very hard.  It turned out that she always laid on the same side to feed, and pups didn't have access to one side of the milk bar.  Only being 2 pups, it was different to your breed, as you would need both sides in use with half a dozen pups.

Every time she fed after that vet visit, I had to turn her over, and attach a pup to the hardened teat.  It took about 2 days before I saw a big difference.  The engorged teat was so full of milk, that they made a beeline for it.  I was lucky.  And it was a Saturday afternoon that I saw a vet, so normal opening hours!  :-)

>vets have very little idea when it comes to breeding.

:-)  :-)  :-)

I'm saying nothing!

also, yes the puppies have no cleft palettes, all a very healthy weight, opened their eyes, free of heart murmurs and progressing completely normally.

have you found this too?? this is why ive started posting on here more and more, as ive found experience from other breeders has been 100% more valuable that that i am paying through the roof for.

> WOW Barbara, I have never seen it that bad. Only one of your bitches would have chosen Boxing Day!  :-(
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and of course it would have to be Jozi, the attention seeking opinionated, boomerang juvenile delinquent.

She had just turned 7 with her third and last litter at 10 days, and literally it blew up within two hours.

I suspect that infection was tracked in when she curtsied low to pee in the winter/wet weather allowing the hind glands to touch ground.

She was so good though.  Fortunately sensible vet told me the pups would leave that gland alone until it was clear of infection, and pups barely had a blip with weight gain, but she obviously felt pretty done in.

glitterbug

I think I use the best vet in the world.  And wouldn't use any other for health problems.  But, to be fair, a vet only sees a bitch when there is a problem.

I have actually taken a bitch to the vet, as I thought she was taking too long to whelp.  She presented the water sac as I arrived, so I asked for a room to deliver my litter in!  The lady vet stood at the door, watching me deliver them.  She was so excited, because she had never seen pups born before.  Most vets see pups after delivering them during a C-section.

So you see, they are not breeders.  But they are experts at saving lives and diagnosing health problems.  :-)

And breeders that have been in dogs for donkeys years, will have encountered most whelping problems.

">She was so good though.  Fortunately sensible vet told me the pups would leave that gland alone until it was clear of infection, and pups barely had a blip with weight gain, but she obviously felt pretty done in.

the vet advised you to avoid the teat?
i am so confused now whats the best thing to do. they advised it wouldnt do the puppies any harm to drink from the mildly infected teat due to the fact that the anti biotic will be going through her milk anyway and this stimulation is what will shift the mastitis.

maybe your girls infection was slightly more severe? weve had no tomato soup yet - but mushroom soup is a pretty good description lol.

btw i really appreciate everybodys responses i know im coming across as stupid, i just want to do things correctly and i am still learning, so apologies.

> advised it wouldnt do the puppies any harm to drink from the mildly infected teat due to the fact that the anti biotic will be going through her milk anyway and this stimulation is what will shift the mastitis.
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That is quite right, but my bitches gland was extremely infected with the milk expressed (with difficulty using hot compresses) being red, then brown and finally clearing (at which point pups happily fed from it) after about 4 days.  She was on AB's for two weeks.

Pups wouldn't go near the teat until it was drinkable