I have a working cocker spaniel who we rescued at 7 months so didn't have the 'tiny puppy' stage with her, two weeks ago we got an 8 week old Malkie puppie, Gizmo, mum is a yorkshire terrier, dad is a Maltese, he is absolutely adorable, putting on weight and an absolute joy to have around.  When we got him two weeks ago he only had two back teeth, now his other teeth are coming through and he is biting everyone and anything, the cocker spaniel is absolutely fantastic with him, Gizmo climbs over her, bites her legs, ears anywhere he can, Poppy lets him know when she's had enough!

My question is........ is this just a normal stage he is going through with the biting/nipping, I do just say to him 'no biting' if he's chomping on my fingers, not that he takes any notice lol, should we be saying 'no' to him with the biting or is it just a normal stage, will he grow up to think biting is the norm if he's not 'reprimanded' or will he grow out of it once his teeth are fully through.
We've nicknamed him 'pete the piranah' as he's always biting/growling and grumbling while playing with Poppy.

He is put into a cage when we go out which is literally only for the odd hour here and there as someone is here with the dogs most of the day, he's quite happy in his crate and gets a little treat when he comes out, he's sleeping well at night, we got him weighed last week and he'd put on .5kg in the first week we had him, he has more jabs today and microchipping, so I have no concerns other than the biting at the moment.

Just really want someone to tell me that this is normal and i'm not going to have a vicious dog when he grows up!!!

Thanks in advance for any advice given.

Hi and welcome to the forum! Unfortunately your puppy was taken from his mum and siblings far too early (the fact that he didn't have all his teeth shows that he should still have been with the litter); in the last two weeks he should have been learning canine manners from them. However what's done is done, so you have to work with the situation as it is.

Have a read of The Bite Stops Here and The Puppy's Rule of Twelve; if properly implemented you'll be well on the way to having a wonderful member of the family!

Yes that is normal, as soon as you mentioned the lack of teeth made me think the pup is younger. Your spaniel is teaching the bite manners by putting up with so much and then calling a halt, this should have happened with mum and litter mates, I have never had a pup which has had a problem when I have brought them home, youngest has been 9 weeks old, I saw him[not allowed to touch or get too close] at a day old when I went to see another litter, he had been born over night. Pups I have bred stay till they are fully vaccinated and interact with all the adults from 4 weeks old under supervision, the bitches are quicker to stop unwanted behaviour, the males are more tolerant and love the games.

You need to teach the pup what biting is OK and which is not, Ian Dunbars "the bite stops here" is very good.

Any training must be consistant from all family members, the pup will be confused if some allow bad manners and others don't.

What may seem funny the first couple of times will become very annoying, don't encourage something that you wouldn't want as a life long habit.

Enjoy, puppihood only lasts for such a short period.

As the others have said chances are he was much younger than 8 weeks when you got him, so I would delay vaccinations until at least 4 weeks (preferably 6) after all his baby teeth were in when he would really be 8 - 10 weeks old.

If he is vaccinated before the maternal antibodies have waned sufficiently they will not take, which will mean the puppy may end up unprotected for the next year until his boosters.

If he is already vaccinated I would take great care when socialising him and avoid dog heavy areas, and get him titre tested about a month after the last vaccination to make sure he has immunity to the diseases vaccinated for.

Unfortunately people who breed cute crosses or casual litters do it for the money (not for any love of a breed or it's improvement/maintenance) often want 'rid' as soon as they reach the hard work stage from 4 weeks old, and we often hear of puppies being sold at 5 weeks because Mum no longer wants to feed them.  Good breeders of toy breed puppies generally don't home them until they are 10 - 12 weeks old as they are often not as advanced in development as larger breeds.

What it really means now Mum is starting to cut down access to the milk bar the breeder has the work, and pups become noisy and demanding.

Thanks for the links, I will have a read through too.

I've got a small breed and she came home at just a few days under 12 weeks, a few weeks later and she is now into the official "teething" age so everything is a potential something to chew .... I find if she does try (nearly all the time !!) and nibble a hand / finger / anything she isn't allowed I firmly say no and give her something she is allowed to chew on - the kids have also been told to do the same as they are more prime targets than me or husband and even though the two eldest are 11 and 13 (kids not dogs lol) I don't allow them to all be together alone, mostly because the two youngest are 3 and 6 so I find it easier to do the same for everyone and I am in charge.  You do need the eyes in the back of the head again too!!!

Thank you all for your replies, I could only go by  the age the breeder said he was when we got him, he'd had his first lot of jabs the day before we picked him up and he has just had his second jabs, kennel cough and micro chipping today.  When we picked him up we took him straight to our vets, before even coming home for him to check him over and apart from having fleas he said he was fine so came away with advocate and worming paste.

He has come on leaps and bounds since then, he was 1.45kg 2 weeks ago and today weight 1.8kg so is putting on weight nicely.

He is very tender from his microchip and jab injections today, hope that doesn't last for too long.

I take on board what you are saying about him maybe being younger than we were told, but the breeder was rehoming the pups asap so if we hadn't had him, someone else would have and at least I know that he has a lovely comfortable home here and is being well looked after.

Kaz

Having fleas isn't good either, any pups/dogs I have bought in have been treated for fleas sometime in the past couple of weeks.

Pups I sell start on Garlic Oil 2mg caps daily at 8 weeks old and go home with a months supply, any fleas don't like the taste so don't stay around.

I too would worry about the vacs working, mine get done at 9 and 12 weeks [latest Mum will have given comfort suck is 6 weeks],vet won't do the last one any earlier just in case the first one didn't work.

Is KC normal in regime for pups these days, not had any for nearly 2yrs?

I take on board what you are saying about him maybe being younger than we were told, but the breeder was rehoming the pups asap so if we hadn't had him, someone else would have and at least I know that he has a lovely comfortable home here and is being well looked after.

That is what poor breeders bank on buyers doing

what should have been done and what has been done are two completely different things, if the pup was sold too early, and we don't know for definite he was, it's done now and I have to get on with it, I think we are doing a great job, he was 1.45kg when we got him two weeks ago, today he is 1.8kg, so the nurturing, caring etc, is obviously working, he's full of life, I have no concerns over his health, he's playing with my cocker, perhaps he's learning some of his life skills from her, if he is, he'll have a great teacher as she is an absolute joy to have around, great nature etc.

I can't control what the breeder done, all I know is that with him coming to us, he will have a wonderful life full of love and care in a loving family home.

Thanks again for your comments

> I can't control what the breeder done,

This is why choosing your breeder is more important than some people seem to realise.  In an ideal situation you will have vetted the breeder in advance of the birth of the litter, and know all there is to know about the parents, their health tests results, reasons for breeding, and puppy husbandry in advance - and if you don't like what you see/hear you can choose to get a puppy elsewhere.

I appreciate this might not be exactly what you came on for but posts like yours might help others in decision making who perhaps also didn't realise what to look for, and what the ideal age is for homing puppies of this size.  This is also why you'll sometimes find you get longer or more wide ranging replies to your questions.

However, as you say, what is done is done and yes puppy biting is quite normal and no it won't result in a vicious dog.  We've always had baby sharks too and it's much easier when they lose their very sharp puppy teeth.  Do read the articles in the links, and also get plenty of different textured toys for your puppy and cycle them so he gets new ones every other day or so to keep them interesting :)

I have no doubts your caring for the puppy well. 

I only intended to point out that if the puppy was younger than stated (seems likely due to the teeth) then he may be in danger of being unprotected by his vaccinations which are negated by maternal antibodies.

The reason that the pups get two vaccinations is to ensure that they work.

A poster on this site recently had a fully vaccinated puppy develop Parvo virus at 4 months old, when she was titre tested it transpired that there were no antibodies for any of the other diseases that she had been vaccinated for.  She had been vaccinated at 8 and 10 weeks.

In America and Canada for this reason puppies get a final vaccination at 16 weeks.  Many here prefer to wait until after 12 weeks for the final vaccination, when pups have had full access to Mum for maximum length of time.

The problem with timing vaccinations is that it is impossible to tell at what point the maternal antibodies will wane enough for vaccines to work, or for pups to be at risk.

Big sister sounds like she'll be a great teacher.  All puppies go through the biting stage.  Imagine babies that put EVERYTHING in their mouths to 'test' it when younger.  Pups are no different.  She's just testing life!!lol.  This usually lasts till about 16 weeks but try and be consistant with the reprimands.  I usually replace whatever she is chewing with something she is allowed to chew!  And hopefully your little spaniel will let her know when it's too rough.  Mine plays very softly until the pup hurts her then she'll apply a bit of pressure in her biting to let the pup know it's not on.  Then play will stop for a minute.  Pup soon learns not to be so rough.

As for the age of the pup? Surely your vet would have said if they thought he was too young for his vaccinations? He's maybe just a late developer.  I would've thought the vet would have gave you a good lecture if he was too young to be away from mum.  Wouldn't take rocket science to work it out for a vet.

>I would've thought the vet would have gave you a good lecture if he was too young to be away from mum.

Vets will only give a 'good lecture' in cases of outright cruelty because they know they'll never see the client again if they do. People go off in a huff when they're told off. What are they supposed to do? They resent being made to feel foolish and the pup's probably better off away from such a rotten breedr and getting getting proper care.

we took him to our normal vet who we know very well, he's vet to our spaniel and also our cat, he checked him over thoroughly and again when he saw him on Saturday, he said he was fine, he didn't mention at all about him being taken away early, we have been with him for about 7 years and I do think he would say something if he thought there was a problem.

On the up side, he's definitely coming on leaps and bounds, is playing with the spaniel in between sleeping, eating well, putting on weight, sleeping through the night except if the spaniel gets me up to have a wee I take him out too, i've no concern about him at all.

Will look forward to the biting stage stopping lol, he was hanging off my maxi dress earlier today, little monkey!

Do wonder how clued up the vets are, yes they check the heart, lung function and that there is a leg at each corner, will palpate the abdomen and take the temperature but I am not at all sure they are aware of the importance of nest time and the company of siblings and they certainly see no problem in suggesting you change food.

What ever the truth of your pups age is I would have his immunity tested at about 16 weeks just to be sure there is no way you want to have him pick up a serious or fatal illness.

>he said he was fine, he didn't mention at all about him being taken away early,

The thing is that puppies normally have plenty of front teeth through by 5 weeks, which is why bitches become more reluctant to feed them and start natural weaning. If Gizmo didn't have these front teeth when you got him ("When we got him two weeks ago he only had two back teeth, now his other teeth are coming through ") it suggests he was less than 5 weeks old at the time.

It's great that you have a good and long term relationship with your vet.  However, it sometimes helps to think of you vet in terms of a family GP.  There are times when you need the knowledge of a specialist - and it's unrealistic to expect your vet/GP to have in depth knowledge in every sphere.  Dog breeding is one of those areas where the breed of the dog can require specialist expertise.  Sometimes you need help from a breed mentor. :-)

As the more experienced people have said he could be younger the point I think they are making is that this wrong of the breeder to let him gop so early but if as you say the-breeder wasn't keen to have him longer it sounds like he has after maybe not the ideal start got a lovely caring home . I would take the advice of having immunity tested. He sounds lovely

I don't mean to suggest for a moment that you're a 'bad owner' in any way, just that from your description you were allowed to take away a puppy before it was mature enough, regardless of its age, to leave. Your vet will no doubt be taking the attitude of it being a fait accompli (which of course it is) and simply dealing with the puppy as any other. Getting it titre tested at about 16  weeks would certainly be a sensible idea to make sure that the vaccines have 'taken'.