Hi all thanks for your responses on my other post :). My girl whelped on day 59 of her pregnancy and the puppies weigh between 4 and 6 oz which is fairly average for puppies of my breed according to the bible aka book of the bitch and my mentor but I'm just wondering if anyone has experience of puppies born at this early stage of whelping. They are going for a vet check on Monday, my girl was checked over today and all blood work and scan came back fine. The puppies are suckling well but for some reason just don't seem as lively and strong as my previous litter the whelped on day 62. Pups have all gained weight since birth, but Im trying not go get my hopes up as I've been advised puppies born this early don't have a great survival rate, although my mentor tells me it is quite common for this breed to whelp this early and the pups to be viable. We haven't left mum or pups side, does anybody have any advise that will help me give these babies the best start in life. We were advised of and purchased a product called 'puppy stim' however having read about it it doesn't seem to be applicable as the pups are all suckling and toileting well. Mum is very attentive but absolutely shattered.

Any experiences appreciated xx

Pregnancy is 56/57 days, it's usual for pups to arrive longer than this from mating, but this isn't when conception happens, if your bitch was mated towards the end of her 'receptive' time then 59 days is perfectly normal - they don't sound premature, so they're likely to be full term normal pups......

>I've been advised puppies born this early don't have a great survival rate

I've never heard anything so preposterous!

Sorry to say that whoever "advised" you is obviously not experienced in breeding toys.  My bitches never go full term, day 56 being a perfectly normal whelping time.  Pups are fully formed, and as healthy as any 63 day litter.  (I would actually worry if my bitches went
that long.)

>the pups are all suckling and toileting well. Mum is very attentive but absolutely shattered.

All perfectly normal then.  The breed is actually known for not being attentive, so smile!  :-)

It was the vet nurse who advised me of this when I called the out of hours yesterday, she said puppies born this early especially pugs don't have the best survival rate. my mentor was laughing when I said this, but she's been breeding so long nothing phases her anymore so I trust her completely but I am a worry wort. I now never trust vets that don't actually breed or have ever had a litter. All text book no experience. So nice to get first hand advise :) we had all the health checks done for our bitch via a referral hospital will be going there again if in doubt!

I've not had many toy litters but all have been born before day 60 and also a couple of large breed litters born then. Perfectly normal. Now if it was cats, then it would be a very different story! Vets and vet nurses so seldom know anything about breeding.

Certainly had several litters of medium breed (20kg adult) born on day 59.  My earliest was a litter of 9 born on day 58 from a single mating.

I have rarely had a  bitch go to day 63, and ony twice beyond.

Should be no probs at all. I wd. think mum has plenty of milk so pups are totally content so that's why they r not as lively.

I once had a bitch who without fail would whelp on day 57, all puppies were fine, they suckled and grew normally, with no losses.

If they were truly prem they would have no hair, then I would be worried.

Make sure Mum gets lots of nourishment and fluids, let her eat anything that takes her fancy, I keep vet/nutrodrops on hand as it gives lots of calories without filling her up, I give goats milk to drink, my girls won't drink plain water post whelping, extra calcium in yoghurt,cheddar and cottage cheese mixed in with their kibble goes down very well.

If you boil some chicken keep the water and either freeze in ice cube trays as a cold treat or give it cold to drink.

I don't know what is worse having a litter in winter[had 2] and worry about keeping them warm enough or having one at this time of the year[stillborn pup a year ago] and trying to stop Mum over heating.

Enjoy them,time flies by all too quickly.

Thanks for your advise. Surprisingly, mum who is usually a fussy eater is eating everything she can and drinking lots of water. She's currently on royal canin mother and baby, with goats milk, she's having boiled chicken with cottag cheese, and she loves raw chicken wings but I'm a bit dubious about feeding these whilst she's whelping. Puppies have gained lots of weight and have nice plump bellies. Mum is hot but we are wiping her down and making sure she drinks lots of fluids. Will try the ice cube method thanks :)

I have purchased some collo cal d but I don't know whether to use it as Im a big advocate of supplementing the diet in a natural form, and then using something like that as an emergency if mum wasn't eating.

The puppies don't look premature in anyway, lovely thick coats, they weigh between 5.5 to 6 oz which seems a good size. the only indication is that their bellies are pinker than my litter whelped on day 62. The skin seems a little more breakable on their belly.

The little girl is eating really well.i am a bit concerned about one of the pups, he is the biggest but drinks from mum the least, I'd say he's going in between feeds without milk for 4 hours, the others are always latched. Is belly does look plump and round so maybe that's just him??

They've all gained at least an ounce since birth on Friday evening . Biggest boy is now 7.3 0z :)

I have Calciboost in my emergency kit and give it hourly along with the vet/nutrodrops once labour is well established, stops them becoming tired out[only small amounts, 1ml of each if my memory serves me right, so not a problem if an emergency c/section is needed] this advice was given by both mentors in my breed. After the whelping is complete then use natural sources of calcium, my litters have been 3/4 so not huge but best to help stop eclampsia happening than have to resort to emergency treatment at the vets.

If the pups are gaining weight steadily then there is no problem, tend to find the smaller pups are the more eager feeders as if they lost out in utero, your bigger pup may have a stronger suck and is getting more milk at each sitting which lasts him longer, is he favouring the nipples nearer the back legs that tend to take less effort to produce a good supply?

Having the same breed I am prepared from 7 days previously and expect them to arrive 2/3 days early.  The puppy weights sound fine, even quite big, for the breed and the  weight gain perfectly acceptable - I look for half to one ounce per day, but often a small drop or no gain for first day.  You are dong well if Mum is caring for them herself, jsut take normal precautions, such as making sure all get equal feeding, and that the smallest are full when finishing, not just tired.

Thanks gwen we have a lot invested in this litter. I have 2 black girls of the breed, my 1s black who is 2 and a half we qualified for crufts on her 1st ever show, I am learning but have been told she is a beautiful example of the breed but I just loved every minute of crufts would love to one day have my own champ. eager to do things the right way. We have kept her puppy back to show so far she is promising. We were really really hoping for fawn In this litter, we chose the stud based on his bone structure and Heath, unfortunately didnt get a fawn girl but thankful to have had a self whelped healthy litter. Out of interest do you do the PDE testing ?? I have purchased one of the kits from America to test my girls although have heard a lot of breeders dubious about this and the reliability of the results. (I hope this meets admin standards a lot of my posts seem to be edited as I have referred to my 'breed' just want advice so hope this is ok)

Thank u for the reassurance , mum is doing well, not as good as my other girl she doesn't like the puppy pooh cleaning part , and a little clumsy at times, but with supervision she's brilliant, think she wants her babies and her human mummy close by too, have noticed the little un getting tired, mum usually gets up and has a little walk about goes back and does a 2nd feed. X

Glad to have been of some help.  No, don't do the PDE tests (As yet), X ray for HV and considering doing hip/patella.  I am not sure of the value of the PDE test, and worry it is being see as something it is not.  As far as I have learned it gives an idea of possibility of the tested animal being affected by the condition.  However, it is far from foolproof, I think, and is also being seen/used by many as a statement that a) the dogs will not be affected and b) offspring will also be free from the problem, neither of which is the case.

Hi pups are a week old tomorrow and they have all doubled their birth weight. They have passed their health checks we have no heart murmurs and lovely chunky pups. Mum has also stopped panting and is enjoying her extra privalages. Thanks so much for your advise )

Glad to hear everything is fine, double weight in 7 days is excellent!