Hi, i am wondering if anybody can help me.

my beautiful girl, aged 2 years, is day 58 of whelping, (just over 8 weeks) she has had several vet check ups and two ultrasound scans throughout her pregnancy, one ultrasound at 4.5 weeks to confirm she is in whelp, and one at 6.5 weeks to monitor the progress of the growing babies and to determine whether a c section may be needed - this was performed my by vet who is absolutely brill. she has absolutely sailed through her pregnancy with no problems what so ever.

the vet said due to the unreliable nature of ultra sounds he was unwilling to give me a number of puppies, however there seemed to be at least one puppy in both uterus horns, on the second ultra sound they were growing perfectly and i even witnessed the heart beats on the monitor. She has gained a significant amount of weight and is very very visibly pregnant!

i am just concerned as this is mum's first litter and the second litter i have ever whelped and i really cannot feel the puppies move or see movement in her stomach, she feels rock solid and seems quite uncomfortable , reluctant to rest on her stomach, but there is no movement what so ever that i can feel. She has a fantastic pedigree and i know as far back as her great grandmother that she is from self whelping lines.

With my other girl i felt the puppies move very actively from about week 7 and she gave birth easily to 5 beautiful healthy babies.

I have called my vet to bring her in for a check up but the nurse seemed quite amused at my worrying and stated to bring her in heavily pregnant unnecessarily is putting her at risk of infection and she should be at home and that she would not recommend a third scan on the advise of a vet. they said due to the fact there has been no expulsion of discharge, her temperature is fine and she is conducting herself in a normal manner i have nothing to worry about. I have also called my mentor who has been breeding for 20 odd years and she said that this is normal of a very very large litter as the pups have little space to but i just feel uneasy and i worry so much about my girl. i know that a dying litter can cause serious problems.

am i being paranoid?? has anybody else had this before??

thanks in advance. :)

My girl had 7 which is large for the breed and they were having a party in there, I have a video of them jiggling at 7 weeks. Her sister had 8 and the same, my girl self whelped in a super time. 2 weeks old tomorrow and doing amazingly, so chunky and healthy. Mum has disproved the common thought of poor maternal instinct and is a fab mum, toilets them and very attentive. If they are dead which I doubt you would have one sick girl. If it was a large litter you would see them. Is she big asin tummywise?

the lady i use for advise is a show person/breeder had a litter of 9 which is the biggest litter of this breed i have ever heard of and she didn't feel a thing she said, rock solid, but my last girl had 5 and like you mentioned, i'm sure there was a disco ball in there party open all hours hehe, and i think 5 is about average for the breed.

wow they are generous litters !!
like your girl she was a fantastic mother, we basically sat with match sticks in our eye sockets for 2 weeks but didnt need to, she wanted to do it all herself. the pups are stunning and we kept a little baby to show, the others doing well in their new homes. :) glad your babies are doing fab.

i think i can maybe feel the odd very gentle flutter but keep thinking am i imagining it?? its quite hard to keep her still shes an active little thing. shes massive tummy wise, she looks like shes swallowed a rugby ball. shes 100% pregnant i've seen the heart beats, shes now expressing milk and starting to nest, but im just suprised they arent moving about. maybe they will be lazy like their father lol!

thats what my vet said, if the pups had passed away we'd have one seriously ill girl, and possibly a lot of green/black discharge, but shes perfect other than being unable to get comfortable. x

Her sisters litter were born on day 59 from first mating but were very small so I think she may have taken from a later mating. Unfortunately her breeder who owns her sister told me they lost 3 of them, one quite late on at 3 weeks, mine were born day 62 and the last born boy was very big and needed assistance. The buns were certainly done. Hopes tummy was not far from the floor lol most are over 1lb in weight now and all eyes open. Feeding really well and making me think I could start them on mince and tripe early. Daddy is a champion so I really have hopes for these babies having some success in the ring.

I never feel pups move.

I find the pups are quiet till Mum goes to sleep, I will let her fall asleep on my bed and then slide my hand under her and I can feel movement that way. With a first pregnancy the abdo muscles will be tighter restricting the pups moving.

If it is a large litter or one large pup in each uterine horn then space may be at a premium thus reducing the movements.

An Xray at this stage is a better guide to puppy head size and dams pelvis size and whether they are compatible, will also pick up any breech presentations to be aware of in advance, the more calcified the bones are the nearer to maturity they are.

Hope she doesn't keep you guessing for too much longer.

Hi all thanks for your responses i really appreciate it.

Brainless, what is your breed? it makes me feel a bit more at ease shes not had

it does seem odd i cant feel movement but whatever will be will be now i guess. my other baby went at 62 days and the puppies were 8-9 oz which is really healthy big chunky pups for the breed. she had 3 scans and an x-ray because i was paranoid. her whole labour was a mind blowing total of 3 and a half hours for 5 babies. what a star !!!

i have been considering x-rays but last time it didnt even give me the correct number of babies lol, a lot of friends have had them done in the past at various practices, and been told they would need elective c-sections and the bitch has delivered with ease 2 days before the date, and others that have said no problems and gone on to need emergency c-sections in the middle of the night. i guess its always more difficult for pugs due to their strange body shape!

:) its always best to be as prepared as possible but for out of hours treatment especially a c , area is quite affluent and a referral place, you are looking at between 1300-1500 for an out of hours c - section so ive had to keep that behind me. those who say breeding is easy can think again lol ! x

>you are looking at between 1300-1500 for an out of hours c - section

I paid over £1,000 for a section on a toy breed 6 years ago, and it's a breed that carries 1-3 pups as an average, so agree that breeding is not easy.  However, I mostly feel movement, but didn't with one bitch, who felt to me as if she was carrying one very large pup (not moving, but body felt huge for the breed.)

The evening prior to her starting I was sat with my hand on her quite gently, and felt like the waves of the sea had started moving!  A second pup was moving down from under the ribcage.  She whelped quite easily in the morning, and the 2 pups were a normal size.  I had just assumed that she felt solid due to carrying more fluid than some.

well that fills me with hope, i don't mind if she has 1 or 10 as long as they are healthy happy babies and she can give birth with ease.

despite my doubts might see if my vets have an appointment for tomorrow for a x-raying.

strange how it differs so much from dog to dog, i guess they are just like us humans :)

for OP i havent redall other posts as i dont have my glasses on and can just make out the letters on board lol,nut pop down your local saddlery and buy a stethascope you can hear heart beats clearly from 7 weeks,would that give you peace of mind??

i dont think we have a saddlery near were i live but the stethascope isnt half a bad idea!! thanks :)

well how about buying one online with next day delivery TRUST me its with me all the way throughand i check my girls everyday...in factiv got three bitches and one dog,and all three of my girls lie down and wit to be listened to even just getting it out the sideborad drawer lol even if im just checking the one!
not every day of course just when they see it they know what it does lol...even my boy ha been known to may down and roll over-of course i just tickle his belly
hope you can find one...theyre a god send

>despite my doubts might see if my vets have an appointment for tomorrow for a x-raying.<br />

I'm a convert to x-raying at the end if there is any worry.  I had one girl with exceptionally strong contractions, but was getting nowhere.  An x-ray revealed 2 pups side by side, jammed in the same uterine horn.  No way were they going to move without wearing the bitch out.  They looked like conjoined twins on the x-ray.

It was 2 perfectly identical pups, exactly the same weight, and they were delivered by section.  If your girl is x-rayed the vet should be able to say if the pups are a sensible size to self whelp.  I think it would put your mind at rest.  And you will see for yourself if they are placed easily (as opposed to jammed!)

Sounds normal to me, I very rarely feel pups move, the mum's tummies are usually so very tight that nothing is seen or felt, very occassional flutters maybe. 8-9 oz is enormous for pups of this breed!  I have an 8oz one once, but she was a singleton.

I have never felt movement with my girls in whelp, not like other toy breeds that I have had, but the puppies are lively once they are born, probably glad of room to move at last. and it is hard to pick up heartbeats with a stethiscope due to the noisy breathing of the bitch.
good luck with your girl.
Lesley

I've a medium sized breed - never felt pups move :-(  I also have a stethoscope :-D ... Never heard pup's heartbeats :-( Heard lots of 'gas' from Mum though!!

I would not want to be taking a heavily pregnant bitch anywhere near a vet's surgery unless an emergency - dogs go there 'cause they're ill!!

I'd say, relax (whilst you can) and hope that all goes well for you.

The vet said they were the biggest puppies he'd ever seen for the breed, i had one who was 5.7oz and the biggest in the litter was 8.9oz , but they were all except one above the 7oz mark, and the biggest, she turned out to be the smallest when they started weaning.
strange as mum is only a small very cobby girl, shes black and the stud was pretty average and compact too. they started gaining weight really quickly to theyd hit the pound mark very quickly and doubled their birth weight i think within 7-8 days. ill get my chart out but wasn't too long ago they fled the nest. all she seemed to do was want to feed them and clean them. i still have to stop her letting her daughter comfort suckle now !!

Hi just to let you know she has self whelped 5 beautiful puppies, in just under 4 hours. So far so good xxx

Clever girl! :-)

Congratulations!!

Well done, is that her finished do you think?

Congrats

On my first girl I was told as could feel them mving, nt on their way as go quiet.  I was told will getinto place and the rest.  She had them the next morning. 

Thank you JeanSW for the wave I know what my girl was doing now, I saw it wavwe right down her body.  It didn't twig that what i thoght was 3rd hidden pup was 2nd pup moved up into rib.  She was trim girl when carrying. 

Everything went so much better than I expected she is day 59 to 60 so earlier than we anticipated pups all fab no clefts or anything, one small little girl that keeping an extra special eye on but mum is acting like nothing ever happened lol :) I don't like to jinx things but so far I am over the moon xx

>I also have a stethoscope :-D ... Never heard pup's heartbeats :-(

Oh good!  :-)  :-)  :-)   Me too!