Hi my bitch seems to lack the look at me at shows she stands and moves well but hardly ever wins and I have as lots of judges if my doing anything wrong (as im just starting out) and the all say she's a lovely bitch and have given me advice on my handling but still getting low placing in the ring would be gratefully for any ideas

thanks  

It may simply be that the others are better than she is.

On the other hand you may just be a bit out of harmony handling.  Can you get anyone to video you in the ring so you can see how you look and where you might alter your handling speed at which you move her etc.

Be dispassionate and see if the ones placing above you really do look better.

Are the dogs beating you consistently the same ones?  Are you beating dogs that then beat you next time (performance may improve your odds with this scenario).

my bitch seems to lack the look at me at shows

If you mean that she will not look at your face that is or should be easy to sort, if you clicker train just raise the treat to your mouth and then click if she looks up. I you like to use a voice cue then I use look at me, if all else fails then just start eating something she likes, would be surprised if she does not look at you.

It takes a bit of time for both you and your dog/breeding to be 'known' in the ring and you will lose quite a lot in the beginning.  It's probably nothing other than a bit inexperienced.  I always found that exuding total confidence in the ring was worth it's weight in gold.  Also, if your girl is well trained but a bit dead on the leash, shoosh her up a bit.  It's supposed to be fun.  If you're having fun and she's having fun, that will shine through.  Good luck.

>>my bitch seems to lack the look at me at shows
>If you mean that she will not look at your face that is or should be easy to sort

I think she means that the bitch lacks the 'look at me' sparkle.

I think she means that the bitch lacks the 'look at me' sparkle.

I recognise this :-). Don't take this the wrong way, but if the dog lacks sparkle the first thing to look at is your handling. My dog obviously has a delightfully exciting life at home because he generally looked like he was only there to keep me happy. We would not have got past this without the help of expert teachers and we tend to do a weekly ringcraft class plus a fortnightly one to one class.

Whenever we go in the ring I have to work at convincing him that this is the most fun we could possibly have together. You could try using a super treat that she never gets anywhere else. Our secret weapon at the moment is roast ox or lamb heart. Keep a sliver handy as you set off with her--show it to her, let her smell it on your hand, but she only gets it when she has finished and returned to the line up. The other thing I came to realise was that I wasn't good enough at maintaining a connection with him. I wasn't keeping his attention as we went round the ring. I've learned to make better use of the lead to control and check him without stringing him up (and changed the type of lead I use), I watch him and adjust my pace so that we move together (quite often he used to lag a little and rather than look as though I was hauling him round I let him dictate the pace, not a good idea). It's getting better, especially when I can remember to do all this things in sequence, surreptitiously and still look like we are having a good time. Keep working on your technique and try to find the very best teachers you can. Apart from learning correct procedures you'll learn much faster.  

Hi brainless i acept that there are dogs better than she is and she dose get beat buy the same ones all the time but the last time i was had a breed class she came 3 out of 6 and did beat some of the dogs that have beaten her so she must be getting better i do theink alot of the time it is that my face dosent fit but i also have against me  the judges up her dont know a lot about dobes and im the only one about here as well  and she has a tail with also somethimes dosent help. i was in a class with 2 other dobies which didnt have tails and the judge said to me what do you do with the tail the wont have decided what the standard is yet have they? we will keep trying

>It takes a bit of time for both you and your dog/breeding to be 'known' in the ring and you will lose quite a lot in the beginning

But it really shouldn't be this way should it? You have to be known to do well.. Bugs me big time this one..Surely its about the dog not the handler at the end of the lead...
A friend of mine said "I'm doing well now as people know me and my dog".. I felt very sad that she had to keep going to shows and travelling up and down the country which she really couldn't afford, just in order for her dog to do well, it should do well on its own merits, not because someone has given you a chance.

I've heard other stories that some people will allow you to do well and then you will stop winning because you need to learn you can't win all the time... Or they trust you now so you can do some winning...

> last time i was had a breed class she came 3 out of 6 and did beat some of the dogs that have beaten her so she must be getting better

I'd be quite pleased with that just starting.

Lack of handling skill and ring experience can cost you a place or two, it isn't so much you face getting known but you and the dog getting confidence and looking the part more.

Even the best dogs unless on their toes and exuding confidence will go down the line a few places, and can take a time for a good dog to rise to the top if it isn't showing itself to best advantage.

I have a Junior who is frustrating me at recent shows, she would just rather be elsewhere, previously she was hard to keep focused on me and had the attention span of a gnat, now she gets bored and unless the judge gets a move on, drops her tail, stands sloppily, with every leg going in different direction etc. 

Now her Mother and great grandmother would show their heads off, grandmother a bit more work, and would often loose out when not in sparkling mood.

I agree the dog should be judged on its own merits not on its affix or the person at the other end of the leash.

The first bitch pup I produced went to her dams breeder, I was so chuffed that first time in the ring she was placed first with a lovely critique, seeing my affix in print was so uplifting,proving it was possibly for a newbie to win, unfortunately her owner decided not to continue showing her after about 4 shows which she was placed each time and concentrate on the pups they had bred themselves.

> i was in a class with 2 other dobies which didnt have tails and the judge said to me what do you do with the tail the wont have decided what the standard is yet have they?

Dobes have been undocked for several years now! Judges should be well used to it.

I like showing at Open shows, under all rounders, because there's much less 'face' pressure. We always do well at Opens and we're new to showing.
However, we have done well at breed classes under breed judges, so I don't think it's all face. Come to think, every show we've been to with my puppy we've placed well, or gone on to place in group, and like I said, no one knows my face.

JAY15, That reminded me about my best boy in the ring.  He did everything asked of him as he adored me (and me him) but he hated the ring.  Would rather have been up the hills too!!lol  But I worked out that if I gave him a little play in the ring, he would liven up.  I used to give him a sideways glance while going ridgid and then jump at him and he would go mad! He loved it. He would do a little spin and a playbow and we would share a giggly look.  Used to wake up his personality for the judge to see.
I knew of another person that used a frozen hamster to liven up her dog in the ring!lol. I'm serious.  The dog had a fasination with the owners hamsters and when one of them died(of natural causes, I'm told) the dog got so excited when she was taking the hamster out to be buried, that she got the idea and tried to stand him.  He re-acted so well that she froze the hamster and took him to shows for 'bait' that entire summer.  Dog got made up that summer! Absolute truth and a story I love as my mum was worried I'd do it to her as my bitch adored my mum!!lol.

LOL cracar--that's hysterical, the 'hamster bait' is the funniest handling story I've ever heard, fantastic idea! It just goes to show there are no limits to the creativity of determined handlers.  Apologies to anyone who is offended by the fact that I found this so funny and I hope the hamster eventually got his place of rest in the garden :-)

>I knew of another person that used a frozen hamster to liven up her dog in the ring!>

Cracar, I've heard it all now lol :-)

Didn't the OP buy in this bitch? And isnt it the one who droops her undocked tail.

If its the dog in the avatar it seems to lack angles fore and aft and has no crest to the neck...perhaps Brainless is nearest to the answer...there are better dogs in the class.

Think it is likely this bitch is getting placed correctly - you hear a lot about face judging and getting known but most judges will not even be aware who is handling what and care even less, on one occasion you may miss out to a judge who is judging faces but if you are usually middle of the road that is probably about right, sometimes you will come to the top and others you will get chucked and TBH if you can't take that then perhaps showing is not for you.