Does anyone have experience with training a puppy on Invisible or Radio Fence containment fencing? The literature says that puppies can be as young as 4 months old, but it seems to me this is a bit young. Especially for a small dog like a Cairn.

My pup is as tough as nails and afraid of nothing, but training does require some shocks and I am concerned about it with a youngster.

Stacey

Personally, I wouldn't use it. It gives the owner a false sense of security that the dog would remain in the yard without any other restraint or observance.
Even if your dog learns to never venture near the boundary during calm periods of time....
"Focused" dogs that are chasing a squirrel will bound right through it ignoring the pain in eagerness of the chase. A Cairn caught up in a hunt running through the 'static field' ??? Yep. I'd easily believe that.
It also wouldn't stop any dogs/cats/people from venturing into your yard that could hurt your dog or encourage her to ignore the collar's shocks.
Nothing beats a solid barrier for security and piece of mind. It doesn't have to be huge... there's large pens out there on the market that fold up, but provide a large enough area for a dog to play and relax outside.

But this is just my opinion. I know there are those who swear by this type of restraint system. I"m just not convinced that it's for the average yard. I think it would work if you had miles of acreage and set a huge boundary for the dog to ramble through. But still I wouldn't depend on it 100% to keep the dog within the borders.
regards,
toodles

Hi Stacey,
I use electronic stimulation collars, have been on a course for them run by a trainer, That was 12 months ago and I understand most things about static elecronic stimulation techniques.

If it is of interest to you the head vet of the RSPCA ( Chris Lawrence) uses the invisible fence system on his two cats and one dog, the national farmers union supports static correction collars (which although used for different purposes, part of a training system) work the same.

They are also recomended by the largest humane society in the world, The Humane Society of the United States, who have done studies on all electronic training aids and many vets are now useing them.

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I have heard different things about these sorts of fences regarding dogs, and some years back there was a discussion about them in some of the dog magazines.

Gwen Bailey, who was head behaviourist at the Blue Cross, had come across dogs so upset that they actually wouldn't move in their own garden as they had not understood the concept of the fence. Tney had no idea how or where the shock came from. This is probably the worst scenario.

NOt that I am trying to put you off or anything LOL :D ;)

Lindsay

I think Randolph Lockwood and the Delta society did adequate studies, the Delta Society trains therapy dogs in the USA.

What research did the Blue X do? was the dog assesed as being suitable prior to instilation? Why has she not had this ONE incident published in the context of the numbers in use and also in order for the manufacture to send his own experts in to give an opinion? (which responsible distributers do ) maybe she should have asked Chris Lawrence for his opinion, can you think of any reason she did not?
Did you know that the Blue X collects funds to pay salaried to behaviourists? would electronic systems put behaviourists out of work?

I have a static invisible fence, there are no problems with them, I tried it on me first, its hard to describe, something between vibration and very mild pins and needles and gone as soon as it came, it did surprise me but certainly not painfull.
They come round and see if your dog is suitable as some very determined dogs ignore them.
He just went to the barrier and looked more curious than anything else when it went off, they surprise them and they dont venture further, he started snifing at the ground as if some animal was there, but not alarmed or unduly bothered, just lost interest in going to that edge of the garden.
I got it about 10 months ago and would recomend them to anyone, mine only found the area three times in my presence and just carries on as normal but within the perimiter.
Email me if you want and I will send you the address, I think there are several makes and mine was recomended by someone else who had one as they take precautions to explain everything and ensure your own dog is suitable.

Keith,

I have the containment system installed already from my previous dog. I just need to get new wire to change the shape of the boundary for my new pup. Probably get a new collar too.

What age did you train your dog? I do not want to use it too early.

I will email you, as well with another question, if you don't mind.

Stacey

Carol, I have no idea of all the ins and outs of this, but I feel she basically had a good point - if just one dog is traumatised, bu whoever was using the equipment, then that is one too many IMHO :) I do know the dog belonged to an ordinary pet owner, which is presumably who the equipment is often sold to.

The b. presumably was called in to help sort the dog's mind out and show it that the garden wasn't' full of zapping invisible bogeys :p which is presumably how she got to hear of the case in the first place.

I understand not all dogs behave like this.

Gwen Bailey set up a behavioural programme at the Blue Cross and the records of rehoming dogs because of her programme is very good, so personally I don't have a problem with how she is paid, as at the end of the day more dogs are rehomed as a direct result of her work :)

JMHO :)

LIndsay

When I first trained my Yorkie on the fence she refused to go outside for a day or two. It took a week or two for her to understand that the shock only happened along a specific boundary.

Stacey

Your Yorkie was frightened so badly by it that it didn't go out for two days and now you want to do the same to a new puppy In my experience of terriers I think there is every possibility that it will tolerate the pain and pass through if it is hell bent on chasing something anyway. My advise would be to consider again ways of making a secure area in the garden using fencing, personally I find it is possible to discourage digging right from the begining and I have never had any problems with that. They do not need much of a garden anyway as it is never a substitute for decent exercise time.

Hi Toodles,

I've used an invisible fence before and am aware of the pluses and minuses. I used it with a (large) Yorkie with great success, previously her only mission in life was to escape and run away as far as her legs would carry her - and then come back (thankfully) exhausted and stinking of various types of poop and lord knows what else. There is a Westie down the road from me who is also safely contained behind an invisible fence - and he not only chases squirrels, but manages to catch them as well.

I cannot fence my entire property front and back. I would have to double up on the fencing which belongs to two of my neighbors, side and rear, to make sure it is secure against terrier digging. Or ask them if I could attach fencing which I could bury underground (like you would do to protect against rabbits). It's a lot of fencing. The fencing on my side is now overgrown with huge conifers, which would mean I would have to double up on my own fencing. Plus fence my pond, which would be a real eyesore. Plus fence in front of my house, which I cannot. And then there is always the worry about someone leaving the gate open, so even solid fencing is not 100 percent secure.

The biggest benefit to me of these "invisible" fences are that I can open my front door and not worry that my dog would dash into the road. I can fence off a pond without spoiling the garden, as well as give the dog access to area around the pond. I can fence off a flower border. Dogs learn where the boundary is and do not go near it. If they get close they hear a sound first and jump back before there is a shock of any kind. I have heard of a few dogs who care so little about the shock they are quite happy to go over the boundary. I suspect there are some that just cannot figure it out.

Someone would always be home when the dog is outside in the garden. I agree that these fences are of no use against stray dogs or strange people. We have dog flaps in the house which allow the pooch access to a small fenced area, so she never need keep her legs crossed. :-) So, what I want is a large area for the pup to exercise and cause havoc.

What I really wanted to know is how old a dog needs to be before these invisible containment fences can be used. I do not want to traumatise my pup in any way, even though right now she appears to be unflappable.

Stacey

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I would also be very worried that another dog could easily come into my garden and attack my dog.

Sorry I have to agree with the last two posters, I just don't trust those fences

Theresa

Christine,

I have a friend whose GSD was killed when it jumped up against a 6 foot wooden fence, it's collar caught on the top of the fence, and it strangled itself to death. A dog trainer I used had several GSDs. They won lots of obedience and protection titles. She never had to worry when they were off lead because they all did perfect recalls. That is, until the day the best dog she ever had, a German import, decided not to come back on the recall and was never seen again. It was heartwrenching to see the posters up in every pet store, grocery store, and notices in all the local papers asking if anyone had her dog. I have a friend who breeds Cairns, has fencing all around her property, which she routinely checks, but still one cairn managed to dig itself or wedge itself outside of the fence somehow, ran into the road, was hit by a car and died. It happened once in 20 years to her, but it happened.

The point is that we can all come up with a horror story for almost any type of situation, let alone any type of containment system. That's why no dog should be unsupervised for long periods of time. There is no perfect choice and there is nothing without risk. So I guess we pick which one we are most comfortable using and hope that the one-in-a-million horror story does not happen to us.

Stacey

So what people, without experience and without knowledge are sayin is that all fences are safe except the static fence, I might add that the make I use is also used by the head vet of the RSPCA but I cannot mention the make here.

Dogs have been killed since time immemorial by escaping through or over fences of every kind and I do not doubt that static fences canot be 100% garaunteed, I did nt even need to do my homework to understand that, I might also add that my firm also shows the results of the American Human Society studies which not only recomends them its staff have used them.

Shall we talk about the Dobermann which got through or over a fence last summer, I think at Ascot and bit someone, only to be put down or shall we all talk about the hundreds of dogs which have come to harm by chewing wooden fences and getting blockages. Yes that sounds good, "I would not use wooden fences because dogs chew the wood to escape and die with blockages"

My dog is very nervouse around lively dogs in the park so by the logic that an occasional dog gets nervouse for a couple of days after its introduction to a static fence then do I keep my dog out of parks cause they all have some boisterous dogs in them.
How many dogs get nervouse when introduced to the static system, the answer is not many and as this only last a coulpe of days its comparible to taking a dog out down the road for the fisrt time, mine was nervous for weks after being taken out for the first time.

What all this is set against is the amount of these static systems of all kinds accross the world, which comparitive to any other systems e.g. wooden fences etc have far fewer problems, although new in the UK another very significant point is that most people get them as the result of a recomendation from a freind or aquaintance.
As far as claims by Christine that she would not use 'anything' like that I would point her back to one of her posts when she put a lemon spray collar on what must have been one of her nervous dogs, known to cause eye problems, and the dog was so petrified by what she did it jumped straight into a locked stable door.

I mean locking a nervous dog in a stable to experiment on it with a lemon substance which goes into its face is not something I would do myself.

These fences are not new thinking about where I was living when I first heard of them that was at least 15 years ago, they have just been comprehensively rejected by dog lovers - I'm not sure what kind of recommendation the head vet of the RSPCA is :rolleyes:

There must be many thousands of dogs contained by old fashioned fences, wooden or metal, and brick walls and yet I hear of very few coming to grief and very few of these electric shock fences and yet one seems to hear far more, proportionately, dogs coming to a mishap or traumatised by them. I know which choice I will stick with.

one of the reasons I would not use one of these fences is that my neighbours would be terrified of them not containing the dogs

The physical barrier that they see does give them some comfort

Theresa

Hi,

Has anyone else realised yet that this is a troll thread - at least three by my estimation which is why I removed my post above as I can't be bothered to be nice to them..

Oh, by the way Avaunt or whoever you happen to be at the moment I did not lock one of my Dobes in a stable and put a aboistop on her - not all stable doors are on stables so, just for once, can't you get your facts right before you start on me yet again.

I would be interested to know just what you have achieved in your life with your dogs, not much I imagine as the trolls hide behind multiple false identites and criticise other people without give any details of their own failures.

I imagine that this post, quite rightly, will be removed but maybe you and others will see it before Admin does!

Christine

well im with you all the way on this Christine.
and like you cant be bothered to waste my breath on rubbish posts.
Mari

Christine,

I do not know what you mean by "troll posts." I asked a simple question. I hoped I would receive advice in answer to my question from others with experience using invisible containment fencing, which I did from a couple of people.

Stacey

Hi Stacy im sure Christine did not intend her comments for you as I most cetainly dident either .
I am with christine in this as those posts are coming up at intervals under different names with the same content re training dogs with electric devices frowned on by most of us.
I dont find a lot wrong with electric fences to keep animals in as long as they hold no threat for passing children and pets out walking .
I was out through the fields with my dogs some time ago and throwing things for them to run and fetch.
I did not see the electric fence which was low on the fence and my dogs jumped it after the ball. my little boy aged 7 at the time did not see it either went to climb got a bang and ended in huge patch of nettles
Poor little boy was so badly stung he got nettle fever and spent 48 hours in hospital .
So when people contain their animals behind electric fencing they do put otheres in danger of getting hurt also.
Thing is on the day in question I did not see one animal behind the fencing except mine.

All the best Stacy
Mari

Thanks Mari.

Terrible to hear about your little boy and electric fencing.

The invisible containment fencing for dogs is not electric and has no effect on anyone or any other creature. There is a battery in the collar of the dog (or cat) who is trained to the fence. Without the collar the fence is useless. The fence is actually a thin wire through which radio waves travel, you can cut it and handle it without any risk of shock whatsoever.

I would never have electric fencing in a residential area. I believe - at least I hope -- it is only use in rural areas for farm animals.

Regards,

Stacey

We have an invisible underground fencing unit in our backyard. Waya, our dog, has to have the voltage cranked up all the way, but he's also 5. I would say if you did decide to use it, turn it down low, and the more the puppy gets shocked, the more it understands that it can't get out. Good Luck :)

waya_luver

<<the more the puppy gets shocked...>>

I can't believe i am reading this .

Lindsay

I think if the owner is responsible and no's whether their dog will abide by it or not and go from there then fine. I won't say on this because I have never used them so have no idea what they are like.

We were thinking about one for Taz our hybrid but thought other wise because he would be determined to go anyhow. Our Boston's it would never work they are to determined. Plus they are never out without us anyhow. If we take Taz out front where there are no fences he is just fine to sit or lay on the lawn or the front step and listens very well. He has always been a very obedient dog.

My inlaws have a maltese poodle and very flowery pond type back yard and after letting him no where he is alowed from day one, he now stays away from the flowers and where he not allowed to go he will be 5 in May.

ttfn :)

lol dollface
eight foot high walls are the only way to keep my hybrid in :)

THeresa

Nor me Lindsay. I am picturing in my mind the owner being "grilled" by the shock instead of the pup - much better :o
Gina

Gina and Lindsay,

Animals do not get "shocked" by an invisible containment fence, it was the wrong choice of term. The so-called shock feels like exactly the same as those novelty store hand buzzers children sometimes buy. Surprising. Twitchy. Not at all painful.

It is unfortunate that some people are reacting to assumptions about these containment systems when there is such an obvious lack of information about what they do and how they work.

And yes, I did "grill" myself to check what it felt like, I would never use or do anything to contain or control my dog that would cause them pain.

Stacey

Stacey

I know exactly what it feels like Stacey as I had electric 'stimulation' therapy for a paralised arm the voltage was very low but it produces a tingling all through the body and the effect it can have on the heart causes a horrible panicky feeling. That was my experience as a human that understood the purpose and the good it was going to do me goodness knows what it does to a dumb animal.

I would imagine that the more thin-skinned, emotionally sensitive breeds would be thrown into a complete panic at a "buzzy" feeling like that at their throat :(.

By the way, the only time one of those 'joke' rings was used on me, it gave me a real start, and I had a red mark on my hand for some time afterwards. But then I'm a thin-skinned, sensitive type, too.

What a brilliant idea Gina, a device that gives the owner a shock when their pup wanders towards the boundary thereby training them to get up off their butt and go and check on the wee mite. ;) :p do you think it will catch on though :D:D

could do you never know :p

I had the same treatment as you and it was a horrible sensation felt like I could feel it "inside". Wouldnt want my dogs needlessly feeling something horrible they didnt have to "feel".

Hi Stacey it was they way that 'Wayaluver' posted that caused me to post back - sounded like some old fashioned torture method to me. :)

Thanks. I've decided to wait until my pup is a bit older before using the invisible fencing, which should time well with spring so Abby can "help" me in the garden. I am going to start puppy training classes with her this week, which is recommended before using the fencing.

Unfortunately, it seems that most people have little idea how these fences actually work. So your use of the words "voltage" and "shocked" has set some folks off, as well it should if that were the case. As you probably know, there is no voltage in the wire, only radio waves, and the "shock" is twitchy muscles from the collar.

I guess Waya needs the occassional reminder that he is supposed to stay on your property. My previous dog only got near the boundary once to activate the collar, during initial training. From then on she knew as soon as she heard the beeping sound that she needed to step back a pace or two.

Regards,

Stacey

I've read through and I've seen one of my concerns expressed which is it doesn't keep other animals out of your garden so leaves your dog open to abuse from other animals, but the one I haven't seen (possibly there but I missed it) is that some breeds/dogs may have a chase instinct so inherent that they zip right through the 'barrier' don't feel the zap till after they've passed, but when it comes time to come back in they remember and are afraid to come back in.

I won't say good/bad/indifferent. Just something that would concern me with this type of fencing.

WEndy

Sorry everyone to whom I might have offended. Ya know I am young, so I probably could have worked on my vocabulary for the post, but I didn't mean to make it sound like a torture device for animals. I want to be a vet when i start my career, so anything that would really hurt an animal in anyway, I would definetly be against. Waya has gone out of the fence once or twice, when we first got the unit, but he no longer does. He knows now that when he hears the sound of the beeping, he shouldn't go much closer. I have gotten "shocked" by the collar device before, and to me it felt like a shock, which left my hand and lower arm tingling afterwards, so you can see why I used the word shocked within my post. Also the puppy learns not to go past the fence, the more times it gets a "shock" (what other word could I use????) In my opinion it is better for the dog to get "shocked" than to find a dead dog out on the road. Once again sorry to whomever I may have offended.

Admin:edited to remove personal details.Do not post your age in your posts Waya