I wondered if anyone knew how long my bitch is likely to stay swollen (vulva) she hasnt gone down from being in season scanned said no pups. Will she go down eventually, if so how long does it normally take. Is the a side effect of a phantom ? I read somewhere the the difference between a phantom and a real pregnancy is the vulva seems to remain swollen in a real pregnancy.

Im so confused I just wish I had waited and had the scan maybe next week instead.

All bitches are different, it could be a phantom, a pyometra or as it was a unsupervised mating there may be damage or infection. On the other hand she may just be destined to be a flappy madam.

It wasnt an unsupervised mating as such, we managed to get outside to them just as they tied ( we were hoping to get to them before that but it was too late) and they were held straight away as I knew about them needing to be held upon tying. Would Keith not have picked up if she had pyo on the scan yesterday ? We havent had any symptoms, no smelly discharge ect....

If you are not sure you can get a relaxin blood test done, this will demonstrate pregnancy or not as relaxin is only produced In pregnancy. When you are sure she isn't pregnant you could discuss using galostop with your vet to treat effects of phantom.

Keith wd have noticed a problem I wd. have thought. She may not go back down to her previous size one of my girls seems to have stayed larger.

She may not go back down to her previous size one of my girls seems to have stayed larger.

That is rather what I meant, would think the scanner would have noted if there was puss in the womb but may not if there is just swelling but I don't know having never been in this situation. Would keep a close eye on her and see the vet if there is any sign of the bitch being unwell.

How many weeks after mating was the scan done?

My girl would go back to normal literally over night 6 or 7 weeks into the phantom, never gave her any meds and it happened 4 times and only when she was mated.

PJA I thought 28 days past last mating but seems it was 23 days according to my partner

23 days is too early for a scan its normally 28-30 days,
why dont you ring keith again and book another scan next week sometimes if you have one they do the next scan free/cheaper but noth sure how they all work
was 23 days from her last mating if so when was her 1st mating and did she just have 2 matings

She had 3 matings but then I have the male and he got to her again 4-5 days later

so it is possible she might have caught from that mating
might be worth trying another scan in a few days time

Definitely.  A friend had her bitch scanned at 24 days after the first mating and was told there were no puppies.  I had a feel a week later and was positive she was pregnant (could feel the fetuses).  Yes she was, but the pups were a day late to the 2nd mating.

So don't give up yet.

I think I can feel fetuses now. She has egg white snotty discharge too. I have a feeling it was just too early for the scan and shes took from a later mating. Im not going to get my hopes up too much just incase im wrong but I have a feeling we will be expecting puppies

i was told not to feel for pups if you dont know what your doing,just in case...please be carefull x

Absolutely right.  They don't feel like you would expect in the early days and there is a real knack to finding them.  Prodding and squeezing will find nothing. 

I remember asking my mentor to teach me how to palpate for pups, I was so glad I did because I thought that like humans the uterine horns would grow from the vulva up, I learnt that the horns fill up from the ribs down, she said there is a very small window around 3 weeks when the pups are the size of a kidney bean[ may be bigger in larger breeds] and can be counted, after that there is too much fluid around the pups to be able to palpate each pup, in the coming weeks not all the pups will survive for varying reasons so final count may be less than the number at 3 weeks.

I have never managed to palpate pups despite being a midwife and examining hundreds of women, during a teaching session with a consultant I was the only one to diagnose that this patient was having triplets, others had come up with twins but no one picked up on the third baby lying horizontally up by her ribs,she went on to have 3 healthy babies on Xmas Eve 1981, 2 boys and a girl at 34 weeks by normal delivery and they went home 4 weeks later.

I can't palpate for toffee. I tried, gently, but the first time I FELT puppies was at about five weeks gone, when my bitch was laid like a beached whale on her side beside me on the sofa. I gently moved my hand over her tummy and UP a bit, and two walnut sized balls became apparent, soon to be joined by a third. I didn't manage to find them again until week seven, when the puppies started to really move about.

Perhaps what I was feeling was her intestines or something I dont know, I suppose i just have to wait and see really but im not getting my hopes up too much and we can always try again next season.