I have a small pastoral breed. She is a maiden bitch but the stud dog we used was also maiden, a risk I know but we don't have a huge choice of studs and I really like this boy and his lines. Anyway couldn't achieve a tie but there is a chance we got a slip mating, bitch did make a little squeak then there was a fluid deposit on the floor but the dog turn and licked it up before I could see it, but I just assumed he had ejaculated outside the bitch and after this the bitch decided it was enough. We travelled home, a little disappointed but not too much as we had had such a lovely couple of days talking doggie with the stud owner!

Anyway we are now 4 weeks down the line and for the last 2 weeks she has been a different dog completely, she has increased nipple size, wants to be on her own, slowed up tremendously on walks and doesn't want to play any more, although she hasn't really had a change in appetite at all but has had a little sickness. Now I know how convincing a phantom can be as I have had a bitch that even showed signs of labour but hadn't even been mated so I knew she wasn't in pup (she was spayed after this) but obviously I now want to make sure that this bitch isn't pregnant. I have got her booked in for a scan in two weeks but was thinking about the possibility of doing an x-ray if it came back she was empty as they may miss a pup if she was carrying high and only had the one or two. I have spoken to 3 vet practices this morning and I said I just want that option if I felt the need to do it. I was asking if they can do it under sedation, the first vet said they wouldn't do it full stop, the second vet said they would only do it under GA, which I do not want to do and the third one (who I have booked in with) said they would scan now and if negative they would scan again before doing the x ray so thats why I have opted for just the one scan at 6 weeks so less stress to the bitch, and then if it is negative then I can discuss it with the vet but she didn't think there would be a problem to do it under sedation (it was a nurse I spoke to) This practice was my normal practice but they got mostly new grads in and I felt less confident going there and went to another practice that a friend used, I have found them excellent and they x-rayed my bitch under sedation for her hips, with good results, this is the practice who has refused to do it full stop.

I haven't bred for a while and have never needed to x-ray myself, although I was with a neighbour once who had a bitch with problems and after the vet tried to tell us there was no more pups, I insisted on one and low and behold there was a pup, a c-section was needed, but he only sedated to do the x-ray from what I can remember. Anyway with my calls today I feel the attitude I have been met with is like I was asking to pay my vet bills with magic beans!!! So am I asking for something I shouldn't be?? Is it really that stranger request to want to be 100% certain?? I don't want to treat her any different if she is not pregnant and I don't want to encourage a phantom if that is what it is?

Thank you for any opinions, been a while since I have posted :)

In USA and other countries x-raying seems to be standard practise for confirming pregnancy and ascertaining puppy numbers.

I've had an x-ray carried out on a pregnant bitch.  I didn't want her sedated, so held her quietly, and moved away at the last minute with no problems at all.  My dogs will obey "wait" and I've never needed to sedate.

You are so lucky Jean to have such understanding vets :) It was hard enough to get one to do it under sedation rather than GA as it is.

Do you not have a good sheep scanning person near you?  If they are a good one they should be able to find any pups.

I had a bitch x-rayed. At 4 weeks she had been scanned, and there were pups, at 7 weeks she seemed to have deflated. At 9 weeks we did a scan and there was nothing so we did an x-ray just to be on the safe side. There was nothing there. If I had the same scenario I wouldn't hesitate to x-ray, just to be on the safe side. The x-ray only cost me £50, so not too expensive.

I helped a friend whelp, the bitch had a good size litter and settled down. I could feel no more puppies. Owner said that as the bitch had had a stillborn puppy the morning after her last puppy on her first litter she wanted to xray her this time.

Took her to the vet who had a feel and said she didn't think there were any more, but would scan - that showed nothing. Owner still adamant she wanted an xray - which showed 2 more puppies!!

Moral is I suppose - if you want to be 100% do an xray.

It doesn't sound like she is likely to be pregnant, phantoms show the same signs as a pregnancy without any pups at the end.

Xrays don't work till about 10 days before due date when the bones have started to calcify and skulls and spines can be counted, the number of head firsts and breeches can be seen but no way of telling what order they are likely to arrive in as one uterine horn empties first followed by the other one.

If there is concern re puppy head size and dams pelvis then this can be assessed too from an Xra

phantoms show the same signs as a pregnancy without any pups at the end.

And don't I know it! Like I said I had a bitch who had a very convincing phantom which ended with her practically going into labour. She was digging, panting and I could even see the ripple's down her sides as if she was having contractions, it was very distressing for the poor bitch :( but next day she was back to her normal self.

This particular bitch has never had a phantom and has never acted like this after a season but in her mind she probably thinks she has been mated after being with the stud dog. I too think this is probably a phantom BUT I do not want to be ignorant about it as she actually booked into City of Birmingham on her due date and I do not want her to go into labour travelling to or from the show, or worse still on the bench :O because I was convinced it was a phantom. In any case we won't attend unless I am 100% sure. :)

Is it really so important that you find out definately?  Reason I say is because it seems to be a lot of stress for a dog for not much reason.  I scan but I'm not too bothered about the outcome.  I treat my 'mum' not very different from the rest during pregnancy.  She chooses the pace, etc and I don't let her jump on/off stuff but apart from that, no different.  Why not just continue what you are doing and get her scanned and then wait and see.

There is so much stress on the is she/isn't she nowadays.  I remember having to wait the whole 9 weeks without scans!!Eeeek!  It's a natural process so let nature take it's course.  You might be lucky;)

There is the issue of increasing food intake and worming should start at 6 weeks in whelp, and also with entries for shows closing so far in advance one doesn't want to throw ones money away on entering several expensive shows to find the bitch has pups, bad enough when they time their seasons to coincide with shows you thought you were safe to enter.

Exactly Brainless, I do not want to do panacur needlessly and I would start to feed her some puppy food also. Like I said I do have her entered into City of Birmingham and although its not the end of the world I would be gutted to miss it needlessly.

What I said was, I would still treat as if pregnant.  I would worm anyway and it's not a big deal to switch her to puppyfood.
As for the show, if she was still is good shape, I would show her anyway.  I took a bitch to a show and got the best placing ever with her when she was 7 weeks pregnant.  I thought she had missed and had had her scanned to find nothing and she had 7 pups, 2 weeks after the show.  You would never have thought she was pregnant.  I had fed her puppyfood(on the off chance) and wormed her but I was truely shocked at those pups.
Large breed all in the ribs! I hate it when the bitches don't read the books!!:)

I would show her anyway.

Her due date is on the same day at the show!!!!!

I hate it when the bitches don't read the books!!

Lol, don't you just wish they could!! Make breeders lives so much easier :D

"As for the show, if she was still is good shape, I would show her anyway.  I took a bitch to a show and got the best placing ever with her when she was 7 weeks pregnant."

I would not like to take the risk of infection, however slight.