I've been through this before with a pup in another litter and the issue sorted itself in about a week but this time its a little bit different.

I've got a pup that's being syringe fed (now 4 weeks old) and he's been fine until the last couple of days. He got a bit eager whilst feeding 2 days ago and swallowed the mixture the wrong way but now it's almost impossible to give him the amount that he needs because it's coming out through his nose before he's even finnished the 1st of his 4 syringes. He's on antibiotics already just to curb any possible inflammation in his lungs but his problem isn't due to a bacterial infection it's due to how rambunctiously he's trying to feed.

The vet did a double check for cleft palate (all clear) and i've tried thinner mixtures and thicker mixtures of his liquid but the same things happens with them all. I've also tried a couple of times to feed him solid puppy mush in a shallow dish but he's not ready for that yet and i don't want to force his head in.

He's still fit, healthy, & lively and wants hsi food just as much as before but i fear that if i keep trying to feed him he's going to worse instead of better. On the flipside to the coin, if i "don't" feed him and give him a few days to clear out his lungs he will probably fade away fairly quickly and die.
Has anyone got any advice??

Difficult one as he is too old to be tube fed, try putting a spoonful at a time down so there is only a very small amount that can be picked up at a time. Or using a huge tray so the 'mash' is spread very very thin.

Thanks, i'll give that one a try on his next feed but i honestly don't hold out much hope. The rest of the litter are lapping from dishes on their own now and already part weaned but this one missed out on the experience with his litter mates and doesn't quite understand what to do now.
Fingers crossed!!

Just had an idea.

We've got some glutalyte here which is basically just an energy drink mixed with water that has no substance, body, or thickness to it. I remember a vet telling us a while ago that its easier to swallow than puppy milk and if it was inhaled into the lungs it's much easier for the pup to get back out.
Its got no real nutritional value whatsoever though (protein/fat etc) and the pup will obviously start to lose weight, but it might be enough to keep him going for a couple of days while i try to get his lungs cleared out. What do you think?

can't you put the pup with his litter mates at feeding times now?

>The rest of the litter are lapping from dishes on their own now and already part weaned but this one missed out on the experience with his litter mates and doesn't quite understand what to do now.

Sit with the puppy on your lap and give him tiny pieces of mince from your hand. It'll be a lot easier for him than trying to lap slop. Once he's got the hang of that you can put the mince onto a dish and offer him that in the same way to teach him that food comes from dishes - then he'll he'll be more willing to experiment lapping at sloppier food to get the liquid he needs.

I could still feed him with his littermates, but seeing as he's currently sneezing up his milk all the time (and inflamed lungs can start to produce bacteria) i don't really want to risk spreading germs to the rest of the litter and causing even more problems.
He's isolated in a small whelping box on his own for now with a heat pad and a partial cover. I think that's for the best.

?????

jeangenie, i can give that a go but do you not think it could be a bit dangerous at the moment? If he's not swallowing liquids or mush properly what's going to happen with something solid. If bits of mince go down the wrong pipe into his lungs he'll probably choke to death.??

Something more solid is often easier to control than a liquid. Compare holding a piece of bread in your mouth to keeping a sip of water in your mouth; the solid stays put whereas the liquid trickles down your throat making you cough.

What do you think gag reflex is for? As with children if they don't learn to chew and swallow by 10 months they can struggle and this could lead to choking. I think your being to anal with the whole germ thing with a breed like yours he needs to be with his litter mates, learning how to be a dog. Why was he syringe fed to start with? My pups at 5 weeks are demolishing chicken wings in the garden. First taste of tripe and mince and 3.5 weeks.

Jeangenie, when you put it like that it makes perfect sense and i think that's probably the best thing to do. I just hope it works or the future's looking a bit bleak for this lovely little boy :(

Put just a tiny bit on your finger - he can suck and lick at that at take it in his own time.

Just a thought, but could be so over-enthusiastic at feeding time because milk just isn't enough for him and he's very hungry, needing to be on solid food?

Why did you opt for syringe fed and not bottle fed so he has more control of what he takes in and the suck and swallow become co ordinated. Has he grown and gained weight at the same rate as the others?

Humans with poor gag reflex are given thickened fluids[thickened tea looks awful] so advice re giving things more solid is right.

How long has he been on the antibiotics? Any bugs in his lungs will multiply rapidly on the milk mixture going down there too. To help him cough up any fluid on his chest lay him head down on his side and gently tap the chest area, then turn him over and do the other side.

If he is isolated from Mum and litter mates he is going to get behind on other things than just his feeding skills, interacting with other dogs, play fighting and general good manners.

Sorry for asking so many questions.

I hope he manages to pull through for you.

Jeangenie,    He's a greedy little bugger i'll grant you that, but not sure if i was underfeeding him. Over the last week i'd changed the whelpi to 50/50 with liquidised puppy kibble (quite thick) and i always feed pups by the size of the bulge in their belly, never by any calculated/precise amount.
He was always pleasantly full after every feed and was gaining weight at the same steady rate as others so if he wanted more food it must've been pure greed and definitely not because he needed it.

I've got some kibble ready for his next meal but i've made it to almost a paste like consistency so if he wants it he's going to have lap it or chew instead of suck.
Not sure if i'm doing it on my finger though, i've got various sizes of feeding bottles here so i think i'll put him on a teat with a huge hole in and squeeze it out onto his tongue.

>Not sure if i'm doing it on my finger though, i've got various sizes of feeding bottles here so i think i'll put him on a teat with a huge hole in and squeeze it out onto his tongue.

Personally I think that would be a mistake - you want him to learn to eat normally and not suck. I'm guessing that he's a large breed puppy, so the litter's plenty old enough to be on a few small meals of solid food each day.

Rhodach its a long story but the syringes worked out more convenient than the bottles & teats that i used in the beginning.
This is day 2 on the meds, i started him on them the day after he began having problems so any possible bacteria will certainly be kept under control. He shows no signs of being sick and is still super lively, energetic, and very eager to feed.

The "falling behind the other pups" issue isn't something i'm all that concerened about to be honest. He has been with his littermates since day1 and he has only been isolated for 1-2 days so far. At the most he might be sleeping in his own box for about 5-7 days and that's not going to do him any serious long term harm. He still gets to play with the rest of them after feeding time (if he's not sneezing) so it's not like he's in complete solitary confinement.
Ultimately his health is the most important thing to me at the moment. Trivialities, i can deal  with later ;)

Thanks for the well wishes. I'll report back after i try the solid/paste feed.

He needs to be able to control how he takes any food in, by squirting it into his mouth he hasn't got that control, forget about bottles now and work on getting him to take the food naturally, licking it off your fingers gets him started and gives him the taste so you then put your fingers nearer the food on the plate and he will start licking that up, by smearing the food thinly he can't get enough to aspirate on, he may even stand on the plate, if he is really hungry then he should learn this stage very quickly.

Jeangenie  i will try to put it on my finger but the amount he needs each meal is quite substantial and it's going to take a VERY long time giving it all to him if i have to give it to him a blob at a time on my finger. By the time i've finished this meal his next meal will probably be due LOL :)

The rest of them are all on semi solid puppy mush now and eating without any assistance from me. This one would've probably been at the same stage too if he hadn't gone and done what he did.
With any luck this might pass in a few days time and he can carry on where he left off. (touch wood)

>i will try to put it on my finger but the amount he needs each meal is quite substantial and it's going to take a VERY long time giving it all to him if i have to give it to him a blob at a time on my finger.

No, because after the first few tastes you can put your finger in the food as Rhodach says so that he's taking it from your finger and the dish at the same time. By the end of the meal he should be eating pretty well independently.

Good luck with the puppy.
I also would use my finger.
I did have a puppy 2 litters ago and I really struggled with feeding from MUm, and the bottle but with determination I got the puppy through to what I thought was normality by 5 weeks and she went to her new owner. She was a lot smaller than al;l the others and that is why they chose her. All was well for a few weeks in the new home and then she started going down hill and died at about 14 weeks. Hate to be dismal but postmortem revealed one of her kidneys had not developed properly and there was probably a good reason why we struggled with her so much.
My vet said though I could never have known as I had brought her through to have the strength to run about and play with the others but inside things were not quite right.
Hope all turns out OK with yours though but you sometimes never know.

Just want to give a HUGE thanks to those who suggested feeding solids from my fingers as it worked an absolute treat. I half soaked some puppy kibble so it was soft (but not mush) and fed pieces to him by hand one at a time. I got to the 12th piece and suddenly he must've realised that the food was being taken off the plate at the side of me....so he dived straight into it paws first and proceeded to spread it all over the couch :)
No sneezing, nothing coming from the nose, and 1 pleasantly full fat belly again. :)

That's me officially "done" with the puppy milk & mush, i think it's done its job now for this eager little beaver :)

Again...many many thanks for the advice!!!!

so glad to hear he is doing well :)

So pleased to hear he has taken to solids so well, with you saying he was a hungry pup I didn't think he would refuse that option.

Hopefully he can join his litter mates soon and go on to have a long and healthy life.

>Just want to give a HUGE thanks to those who suggested feeding solids from my fingers as it worked an absolute treat.

:-) Excellent. :-) It's always worked in the past for me so I couldn't see why it wouldn't work for you too. :-)

Glad to hear all going well - obviously fluid is vital too so hopefully that will not be a problem.
Keep it going - feel for you and how you will want to keep everything going well.

JJ your a godsend... so pleased this has worked for the breeder and pup.

Why is he being syringe fed at this age, he should have been capable of being fed from a dish from around two weeks old?

By four weeks old mien are stuffing their faces on four meals a day of mashed puppy food with added puppy milk, granted topped up by Mum, but if she had no milk then they would get more in a bowl with or addionally to their food so it had to be eaten and not inhaled, as with milk alone, though at four weeks they can drink straight milk nicely.