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Topic Dog Boards / General / Neighbours dog hanging over fence!
- By Schip Date 25.07.12 00:23 UTC
I am now down to 2 dogs my 12 1/2 yr old male and his 9 mth old granddaughter and still find myself suffering at the hands of neighbours complaining re noise etc.

The side doing most complaining and hitting my fence very hard with bricks has 9 dogs 5 of which are in a pen down the garden all the time, they are whippets and greyhounds.  These dogs howl and bark at every siren going off, which is a few considering we're on the main route to M42, his animals make a lot of noise anytime of day or night with no effort to control on owners part.

Otherside has the collie that spends most of her day trying to get over the fence to my guys, the wall is 4ft tall with a 3ft fence above that so at least an 8 ft fall if she manages to get over, there is a 4ft height difference between properties via their patio.  Gkids kick 3 - 5 balls over the fence into my yard/garden daily, throw stones at dogs when they're out.

Last 2 wks its been every time I let the dogs out (I have wire on my decking ramp for safety so they can be heard) they let the collie out to torment my guys who then run at wall and bark obviously, which then see's otherside hiting the other fence with a brick and screaming foul language at the dogs - they shut up immediately!
Friday was really bad everytime I let the dogs out it wouldn't be more than 10 mins before I had to bring them back in, the old man is very stressed, then 3 men came banging on my door, scared me to death am afraid I didn't open it due to being a disabled woman alone here.

Does anyone have any idea what I can do?  Police say its a civil matter, council don't get enough evidence, the foul languaged side is a parish cllr and seems to know when they are being monitored?
- By theemx [gb] Date 25.07.12 02:11 UTC
It isn't a civil matter if you feel threatened in your own home - however I highly suspect I know the sort of people on the one side of you... and suspect that is why the police won't deal with them!

Personally - and this is what I did when I moved from an area where I knew everyone and the neighbours knew my dogs and liked them, to here, where few people know me and the neighbours are erm, a tad rough...

Teach your dogs that ANY sound coming from either side of the garden is a trigger for a reward - that does mean being out there with them for the time being - so sound = super high value treat. Bark = taken inside for the count of ten.

If you are consistent with this and set it up so it works (so dogs out supervised only, use a long line to facilitate dogs in the second they bark, SUPER high value rewards, slightly hungry dogs etc, really stack the odds in  your favour), you really CAN turn all these distractions into reinforcers, things YOUR dogs actively view as being GOOD and a reason to remain quiet and come find you.

You may need to start with just one dog at a time too!
- By Hethspaw [gb] Date 25.07.12 04:37 UTC Edited 25.07.12 04:46 UTC
What you describe sounds more like a dysfunctional human social situation than to do with dogs or a normal, rational, situation where a dog is causing a nuisance to otherwise non intrusive neighbours. I have no idea of your overall situation but the obvious thing would be to move if you can. If you did sue you had better get some video evidence.

Does your disability hamper your mobility?
- By LJS Date 25.07.12 05:52 UTC
I think moving is not the obvious thing to do in this situation. Why should the OP be hounded out their own home ? Get to the root of the problem and get it stopped is the obvious answer :-)

I would suggest as the first point of call is the dog warden . Get them out at a time when you know you are likely to be able to show them your neighbours and their dogs behaviour.

I would also suggest asking social services/ council  to come out to assess the situation as I am sure they would be able to warn the people and if they persist put an anti social behaviour order on them.
- By Goldmali Date 25.07.12 06:41 UTC
I think moving is not the obvious thing to do in this situation. Why should the OP be hounded out their own home ?

I agree nobody should be hounded out of their own homes BUT many of us have given in and moved as it is the easier solution. When I went to the Trevor Cooper dog law seminar his advice was actually to move  as it is far too difficult to settle neighbour disputes and there is very little that you can do about neighbours that simply don't like you.
- By Carrington Date 25.07.12 07:38 UTC
So one side has 9 dogs which howl when they hear a siren (which can start your dogs off) and this is the side which is showing you the aggression? I.E. throwing bricks at your fence **gulp!** and knocking at your door!

The other side has a dog which is always trying to get into your garden making your dogs bark along with children who throw stones and balls into your garden.

Yes, you can train your dogs not to bark at noise, but you can't stop a dog from guarding it's territory and if the Collie is constantly trying to climb the fence your dogs will bark and will always bark at this unless they spend their lives indoors.

I don't know what kind of parents would allow their children to throw stones at your dogs and allow their own dog to fence climb probably not the sort who would listen to a complaint, but have you complained at all to the parents as it seems if you can have the children reigned in and the Collie sorted from climbing it will cut down most of the noise. Can you talk to the parents? Or possibly ask for a neigbourhood dispute officer to come in and talk to all 3 sides, they look like they do a great job so may well be worth a call. :-)

The side with the 9 dogs are just bullies but there is a little part of me wondering why they are so upset with your dogs when they have dogs who also make noise, I fully understand why your dogs are barking but perhaps it is more often than you think for the bullies next door to be getting upset? Although I dare say being a lone disabled woman has a lot to do with it.

I think you need to ask yourself if nothing else works, even if you did not have dogs would these neighbours be livable with? If it is no, then move if you can, life is too short to spend it upset, worried and scared, sometimes good people can't win with bad neighbours.

Yourself and your dogs seem to be suffering here and if you can not talk to these neighbours and find some common ground I would try to remove yourself from the situation it's not running away it is finding some peace for yourself.
- By LucyDogs [gb] Date 25.07.12 07:43 UTC
I would keep calling the police - it can't be a civil matter if you are being threatened by 3 men banging on your door, throwing bricks at your walls, and screaming foul language. Can you record any of this happening on video or audio? Otherwise I'd be inclined to move if at all possible - like someone else said, it's not running away, it's removing yourself from an intolerable situation!
- By Celli [gb] Date 25.07.12 07:49 UTC
A relative of a friend had a similar situation last year, she had cctv intalled in her garden and got evidence of her neighbours activities, which included tormenting her dog and threatening her because of the dog.
She got her day in court and now the neighbour isn't allowed to so much as look over her fence.
I can't see how the police think it's a civil matter, your frightened in your own home for goodness sake ! that's not a civil matter.
I think you need to make a nuisance of yourself to the police, you should keep a diary of events, which the police may ask you to do anyway, you could also try the council, just because someone lives in a private house, doesn't mean the council can't act.
- By cracar [gb] Date 25.07.12 08:27 UTC
Can I just add that I've been on the other side of that.  I owned 8 dogs and had a nect-door neighbour with one who constantly wound my lot up.  The neighbour never took their dog out so it was completely bored, whereas mine were just territorial, but for fun, my neighbour would wait till I let the dogs out and then let hers out cos she knew her dog would run alone the fence and burn off some steam!  I started going out with my lot everytime they were in the garden and I covered over the fence so they couldn't see each other and then I just trained my lot to ignore the 'pest' next door.  Worked a treat.
Think if I were in your situation, I would be accompaning your dogs everytime they set foot in the garden.  With this type of neighbour, I wouldn't rule out poisoning :(
- By LJS Date 25.07.12 09:04 UTC
I think this sort of dispute comes under the council now as it would be classed as anti social behaviour.

If the person causes criminal damage or assaults anybody then it becomes a police matter
- By Schip Date 25.07.12 12:29 UTC
They've been threatend with asbo's by the council who have been out to witness the abuse, nothing happens and believe me they've been out many many times in the last 7 yrs.  My dogs are living with a friend this wk, down the bottom of the garden, her garden and mine back onto each other so we swap homes for the dogs keeps them well socialised and content. 

Police have advised not to let any of them in from either side as some have prison records - that was a shock.  I had CCTV footage, recordings, traders, visitors and workers letters listing the events when I first moved here - the council did nothing. I complained to my PM who sent it back to council who then rang and said we only need 3 mths worth of NEW evidence let us try again, that was 5 yrs ago.  The problems don't last long enough to take it to prosecution, tell you they really are skilled at this, my fence has planning permission and is over 7ft tall so at least they can't see over it. 

If I'm out with the dogs nothing happens coz the dogs are confident in me, but the minute I walk up my entry with the dogs stuff will kick off which will take the dogs back to guarding duty in a heartbeat.  I've been investigated by council, benefits, RSPCA all saying I have no case to answer which I knew would be the case.  Have copies of letters from all organisations via DPA which are amusing reading if it wasn't for the fact they're fiction and about me and my dogs.  NO organisation will accept a complaint from them about me any more I'm told by those dealing with such issues at each organisation, have those for KC just incase they go that way.

I have someone take the dogs for a walk daily due to my disability, its a balance disorder causing unpredictable vertigo so not safe out alone.  I do show them myself and for friends but they know before I do when an attack is coming so I'm safe with them.
- By Carrington Date 25.07.12 12:55 UTC
Good grief Schip, sounds like a nightmare, you seem to have done everything above and beyond to protect yourself and complain. If you are in a council home could you not use the stress and your disability as a way of being moved? After all you seem to have years of complaints there. Or am I way off course that it could be done like that today?  I can see you have friends where you are and the neighbour at the rear of your garden sounds great. I just couldn't stand living next to people like this I'd have to pack up my bags for my own sanity.

However, if staying have you tried planting tall bushes/ trees to block out the fences altogether and give your dogs a better feeling of a safe territory? The Collie may not be seen then. I'd be inclined to stick a marquee or something up along the worst part of fencing to block out the view too, be nice and cool for the dogs to sit under and make them feel safer, also could stop the stone throwing.......

I guess the only other thing you can do is just ignore them and hope one day they might move away.............
- By Celli [gb] Date 25.07.12 14:31 UTC
Y'know, this puts in me in mind of that poor lady who ended up taking her own, and her disabled daughters life because nobody would help her stop the daily abuse they received. In that case the police and council swore they would take more notice when it happened again, doesn't look like other area's have taken note :-(

Have you tried CAB ? they could at least tell you your rights, or there may be a disabled group that would fight your corner.
- By Schip Date 25.07.12 21:25 UTC
They've been here over 30 yrs, when I brought the house from friend down the garden after hubby died, it was assumed the problems were down to their rotties and business, even had photo's of rotts in the papers.  Never thought they'd just carry on with me as an ex service woman I did a lot of research locally. I used freedom of information act with parish and local council, all complaints seemed to be aimed at business and dogs of previous owners, I had no rotties or a business so thought will be ok, WRONG.

Dog warden was on my doorstep by 09:00 next morning, I was still sound asleep on the sofa, hadn't got the bed made up at that point and builders due in lol. I own the house outright, I believe from locals they own theirs but had to go for assistance from council when they went bankrupt.  The side with the collie are 5 times bankrupts so their property is controlled by the courts, I have copies of their landregistry entrys before they closed all that down.  Bullies have never registered their property so no data to collect, they've even argued with solicitors about boundary and fencing after I put it all up barstewards.

We are the next county to that family so no nothing has changed, for us locally.  Just thought with all the experience on here there might be an avenue I've not thought of, godson is moving in next mth to help me and do on a course for a new job so maybe that will stop them ie a witness.
- By LJS Date 26.07.12 06:13 UTC
If they have been threatened with Asbos then why haven't the council gone one step further and issued them with one? I would ask to speak to the chief exec of the council and get this escalated and also just drop in the conversation that you are at you wits end and wonder what the local press would make of this and the treatment of a disabled person by the council and also the perbetrator being a Parish Councillor :-)
- By tatty-ead [gb] Date 26.07.12 12:11 UTC
OH is a Borough Councillor and suggested you talk to the monitoring officer at District Council and make a complaint to the Standards Committee about his behaviour.
Chris
Topic Dog Boards / General / Neighbours dog hanging over fence!

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