Well here goes. We went into a consulting room with one of Roger's colleagues, and the dog just went mad as per usual. Shooting round the room, paying no real attention to anyone, she just wouldn't stop moving, left right, forwards backwards. After 15 mins discussion she was still going, panting like a good 'un, she called in Roger to have a look as she couldn't believe that a dog could be quite so active. Roger spent another 15 minutes asking questions etc. and trying to solicit a response from the dog, but no such luck. He then brought in a stooge dog, but the springer was too busy moving about to realise, till she turned round and this little terrier was right behind her, and she jumped out of her skin. After another 5 mins of basically getting in the terriers face, the terrier gave up trying to say a nice hello and jumped up on a chair and turned her back to us. Roger commented that the terrier is an extremely good judge of character! To be honest, it was bloody tiring just watching her constantly on the move.

Both Roger and his colleague said they'd never seen anything quite like it, as even after 1 1/4 hours in a rather boring room, she was still on the move. So much so, they even video'd her! They noticed the whites of her eyes also go red when she's doing her thing. Roger said that there were no medicinal treatments available to him, as I questioned him on the info from the web about trying amphetamines to see if they had a paradoxical effect. He said that as far as he knew, no vet in the UK had a licence to issue amphetamines, and were unlikely to get one.

We then went outside (complete with video camera) to let her have a run around on a long lead and see how she reacted to sheep and cows, and apart from a bit of a bark at the cows, no real problems. We then let her off on a paddock with a few old portacabins and stuff in, and my friend demonstrated her hunting skills around them, stopping her on the whistle, directing her into the 'cover' and recalling her. All perfect. They couldn't believe their eyes that she was so good. Which is why it is so perplexing, as given a short bit of work to do, and keeping her close, and it works pretty well.

Any way, we go back to the room, and off she goes again, round and round, up and down. They tried some clicker training, and after early encouraging signs, she just sauntered off to pace the room. She tried petting the dog, but she's just not interested, won't even look you in the eye.

We asked her to come with us and watch the dogs behaviour in the car crate, as the dog turns into the calmest most affectionate dog you can imagine, pushing herself hard up against the bars when you stick your fingers through, licking your hand, looking you in the eye etc. She reckoned the dog was probably relieved to be back in the crate as she knew there was no place to go, and nothing to scoot about for, and could return to being a 'normal' dog.

Bottom line is, they weren't really sure why she's like it, but it certainly isn't a training, housing or upbringing issue. Rogers suggestion was to start with her diet, and put her on chicken and rice with extra vitamin pills for 7-10 days, and see if there is any change. After that, who knows? My friend is not very hopeful, and I can't really blame him, but will give it a good shot. I got the impression that there isn't much else to try, so he's concerned with what to do with her long term. I'm not too sure that it's even terribly pleasant for the dog to always be in this state of anxiety and perpetual movement. Her brain must be working at 100mph, and her panting from just being in a room for an hour was unbelievable. Anyone would think she just been on a 20 mile run

Hi Dave

Does the size of the room or amount of windows, or light have any bearing on her behaviour - perhaps she is the canine equivalent of claustraphobic - I imagine she can see though the crate and car windows when she is in them.

Just a thought

Christine

Sorry about your Springer just for interest what do you feed her on?

She's not mine, fortunately, but she's on James Wellbeloved. I think she was on Eukanuba for the first 3 or 4 months, then he moved to JW.

An excellent account of the visit, Dave ! :) The behaviour must be really unusual for Roger Mugford to be puzzled - I would imagine he has seen most problems in his time.

It does sound a lot like the extreme hyper-active condition that some children suffer from and which sometimes can be improved by diet. So I definitely think it's worth changing the food to see if it makes a difference.

I do hope things work out - sooner rather than later. Having paid out for the consultation, it will be even more frustrating for your friend if there's no improvement.

Joyce

Hi all, heres a link to a site on info about the relation of food & behaviour just in case anyone is interested.
http://www.acorndogtraining.co.uk/nutrition.htm
Christine, Spain.

Dave,
If this was a child/person with this problem, I'd say have them checked out for autism. It also sounds like something rather obsessive-compulsive -- She can't settle down inside of a room and panics. Perhaps she's disoriented on smells/sites...and what she's supposed to do. When she gets into a crate, she's confined..so she knows she can't roam around and then begins to calm herself on her own. It's security from the manmade world.

If you really want to see if a stimulative effect could cancel out her stimulated behavior -- You could try caffeine pills -- perhaps in No-doze form. Try out one to see if there's a difference and work up a bit. Perhaps calling up RM to get their opinion of this might make everyone feel better, including myself. ;) My brother in law becomes so calm on caffeine it's absolutely amazing --he has add-h.
best wishes and regards for your friend.
toodles

Hi Dave, I cant remember if you have already said, but was she sent away for training before?? and also would be interested to know if you/he had sought the advice of any of the gundog trainers. Your girl went off to Walter Harrison , if I can remember rightly ,(grey cells dont always works:D), just wondering if he might be able to help out, and give an opinion, he may have seen a springer like this before. Excuse me if Im raking over old ground, but cant seem to find the original thread! Sorry to fire questions at you, Dave, I do find this behaviour interesting though, I have never come across one like this before. Julie:)

Also, someone I know, who competes and shoots etc, is looking for dogs for detection work, I wonder if it may be worth speaking to him for his opinion on the behaviour??? Actually thinking about the area you train in, you may well know him. Drop me a email if you think it may help?? Julie:)

Hi DaveN,
I'm a newbie on the site but not to dogs, so sorry to hear about your friends springer, it must be very worrying for you all. I'm amazed that she has Doctor Mugford fazed, but there's always a first time! lol

Have you ever heard of Jan Fennel - the "Dog Whisperer" ??
Don't let the fancyful title put you off she is amazing and has helped some very very wierd dogs and some that appeared to be beyond help, in particular the dog you are describing sounds very much like one of the dogs in her second book. There are two books you could try -
THE DOG WHISPERER - by Jan Fennel and THE PRACTICAL DOG WHISPERER by Jan Fennel
I have used the principles involved with my mad Bedlington and the results are truly amazing (they also work for children too lol lol.)
She also does consultations so maybe if the books give you hope you would be able to get in touch with her. Sorry I don't have any details for that but I'm sure a web search would throw up a contact address.
Good Luck

Regards
Paule