Hi,

I'm new here, lots of good info on the forum :)

My question is regarding house training. My 8 week old Lab is used to peeing on puppy pads, this is great for us, easy to clean up..etc.

I want to house train him asap, but I am PETRIFIED of Parvovirus. I know of a dog that caught it and it was absolutely devastating.

He has had one set of jabs, but we gt foxes and other wild animal in the garden. If he gets to fox feces before we find it.... *Shudder*

Also I won't et him near the back door yet, anyway. The dog I knew who caught Parvo caught it off a shoe, we keep shoes in the kitchen by the backdoor.

I am happy to take him inthe garden on a lead (He's getting used to the lead, which is great) but as I can't let hi in the kitchen alone, it seems a little pointless at the minute.

Am I being over cautious? Or am I being a smart mum? I am struggling with what is best. I know he's VERY young and he is so clever and learns quickly, but if I leave it too long am I setting myself up for a fall?

Thanks for any advice, greatly appreciated.
Anj (And Barney)

Simple answer yes.  Do you have children?  If so did you not allow them to be visited by anyone or take them anywhere until they had all their vaccinations at 6 months?

Agree with Brainless - yes you are.

Put the shoes in a plastic crate out of the way or wipe them over with a parvicide disinfectant (easily bought from a number of places).

Teach your puppy to wee and poo outside on a long leash so you are in control - poo pick your garden or at least the area of your garden your pup has access to, to get rid of obvious fox poo.

What you are risking with using pee pads and not allowing your pup to even learn where the back door is.. is a pup who takes 6 to 12 months or more to become housetrained or indeed NEVER becomes housetrained and honestly, that might be ok for a while but long term it is a pain to live with.

If you really cannot bring yourself to take pup outside then invest in a better set up than puppy pads - get a big tray or two and fill them with turf and alternate them daily so they get outside for some sunlight every other day - then  your pup will learn to go only on turf, which is MUCH better than a puppy hard-wired to go on the pee pads which to a pup, are far too close in texture to carpet, soft furnishings, etc.

Substrate texture is INCREDIBLY important to a pup, more so I feel than smell, and getting a dog to switch substrates once they are older and are in the habit of going on one particular type is often incredibly difficult.

Yes, you are being unduly over-protective and jeopardising your puppy's psychological health.

Puppies which have been trained using pee pads take much longer to toilet train, because you effectively have to teach them twice where to go.  You have a reward-history of the puppy toileting indoors, which is going to make it much harder when you want to communicate 'indoors is not ok anymore - it has to be outdoors'.  I know of puppies trained on pee pads which, even as adult dogs, will go and toilet on a cushion if it's left on the floor - because it feels like the substrate they were used to using, as puppies.

If your puppy had the 1st vaccination at least 7 days ago, then chances are he is entirely protected from all contagious diseases - since most puppies at 7wks don't have maternal antibodies left.  Many do, but most don't. 

Pick a corner of your garden where it's unlikely a fox has been, chuck a load of parvocide disinfectant on it if you want to, and carry your puppy there on the lead each time to toilet. 

I run puppy training classes and in 6 years of running classes, including a class for puppies from 1 week after 1st vaccination - where everyone walks, in their shoes - none of them have contracted parvo before vaccinations are complete.  (In fact, none have contracted it full stop.)  It's horrible that you've heard about this happening to a dog you know of, but you can do far more damage by being an unnecessarily anxious puppy parent.

It goes without saying that you should be carrying your puppy around on a daily basis, in your arms, to meet all kinds of new situations, people and places - he should not be shut up at home until vaccinations are complete.  Just don't put him on the ground, if you want to be that careful. 

Like I say, I take him in the garden, on a lead, daily.

At the Breeders they were using puppy pads, and also going outside. Barney cries when he needs to go, so it's easy to read that it's coming!!

I'll continue the 'outside/lead' training as I've started. Thanks

If he cries when he needs to go why can't you take him in the garden on a lead then?

Like I said, it's easy to see what's coming when he cries.

Though getting a lead on a puppy in two seconds flat, AND getting him outside before he starts to squat isn't the easiest thing in the world. The trainging itself should be fine, it was the health hazards moreso worrying me.

Thanks for replies.

Pick him up to put the lead on, he won't pee on you.

I personally wouldn't bother about putting him on a lead to go out every time (unless your garden is unfenced); more important to get him outside to toilet rather than have him do it indoors. The health risks are minimal at this stage.

I agree with the others.  I've had 4 Lab pups now, and they've never been on the lead in the garden.  While they are this young they just want to be with you really, so they may go off sniffing but you can easily get a puppy to recall to you because you are the best thing since sliced bread :-)  It's when they get to 5 months-ish that it all goes horribly wrong!! So as well as keeping them away from nasties if you're really worried about that, it is also essential for that early positive training.

I also take my puppies out with me from the word go (mostly carried/in a backpack for the first couple of weeks!) and the benefit they get from this, in my opinion, far outweighs any health risks. 

If you do want to take him out on lead, I'd suggest you use a puppy houseline.  This is a light-weight lead without a handle, which he trails all the time around the house (only when supervised and not left on when unsupervised).  When you want to take him out, you just grab it and hey presto you have a lead with no fiddly clipping on of anything.  Also very useful for distracting him and preventing him from chewing the wrong things, from jumping up etc - not to be used as punishment, but to gently draw him away from something inappropriate and redirect attention to something else.

Houselines:  http://www.amazon.co.uk/Clix-Puppy-House-Line-Lead/dp/B005TFNPK8

Well, tried to get him outside earlier,

He was shuffling and whimpering, the signs of pooing for Barney, so I grabbed him in my arms and we dashed outside (In the rain, bless him) and the excitement of being outside, as it has always done so far, was so much that he forgot he needed to go!

He has been to the toilet outside before, without pads, etc, So I guess consistency (Mine, not the toilet's!) is key

Yes all the things to sniff do distract them from the business in hand, pick an area you want him to toilet and keep returning him to it till he performs, use a word as he performs that he can connect with going for a wee/poo, I use "Quick" then go overboard with the praise and then let them explore a bit more.

Early on I use tiny cubes of cheddar[kept just for toilet times] as a reward,they soon learn to hurry up to get the treat, give it immediately they have finished,don't wait to go back in the house or they won't connect the two,over time don't give cheese every time but always praise, he won't know if cheese is on offer or not.

Be patient, clean up any mishaps without saying anything to him, use biological washing liquid as it helps get rid of the scent to stop him doing  it again in the same spot.

Enjoy him, puppyhood lasts for such a short time.

Another thing you can try is taking some poos from his puppy pad and chucking them on the outdoor area where you want him to toilet. 

When he goes there, don't clean it up immediately for a couple of days - make sure it looks and smells like a toilet place, to him. 

One of the things you can do is use a 'pee pen'.  Ideal to control the mimbling around playing whilst still keeping the puppy semi contained til he's got the idea of pee and pooh first, play after.

It's also a bonus when managing a muddy garden, or dealing with puppies that steal stuff, or bigger dogs who think it amusing to to try and upturn the puppy (or maybe that was just mine.  Really what was he looking for?  Wheels?!).  I used a croft play pen with my youngest pup and it worked brilliantly, he learnt to pee as soon as his paws hit grass and then he was free to go.  I didn't bother asking him to poo in there as he needed to run first but a friend did just that with her puppy and she soon got the hang of it (even years later she still returns to that spot in the garden)

As you've already heard from others - you are being overprotective about parvo.  Unnecessarily so in my opinion but I know that most fears aren't terribly rational...  Ditch the pads, uses baby gates to create safe places in the house, learn to watch for the signs, and get him outside as soon as possible.  We used a shopping trolley to trundle ours about at the local garden centres. They are generally dog friendly places but not too dog busy and are visited during the week by people with plenty of time to adore your puppy and help with gentle socialisation.

Excellent advice

Flippin heck DAB!  You beat me to it again :-)  I've used a pee pen for all my dogs and it works a treat!

a friend did just that with her puppy and she soon got the hang of it (even years later she still returns to that spot in the garden)
        ..............yep, that's me.  Choose where you place your puppy pen wisely .................. I now have 3 dogs whoprefer to use the patch of grass directly in sight of my lounge patio windows (usually when i have guests)!