apparently on facebook steve hall has commented that only 15% of people have asked for their money back
So maybe those of us who would like it back should ask
I know i shall because if leeds goes the same way i  just cant afford to pay entries and not go to the show

> just cant afford to pay entries and not go to the show

I don't really understand that.  You have not lost anything financially, just an experience.  It's regretable but will not affect you financially, no more than you were by entering in the first place.
On the other hand it could financially ruin a show society if they had to pay back all entries fees whilst still having expences already incurred. The conditions were exceptional and outwith any control by the society. 

I must say I am VERY much in two minds as to whether I dare to enter Darlington and Driffield now. I can't just throw the money away -it would mean entering other shows instead, that I would not have gone to otherwise. And act of god or not, why can't dog shows pay the money back? I entered the cat section of an agricultural show due to be held this coming weekend. The show was cancelled Thursday, due to the same problem as everyone else has -ground too soft/muddy after all the rain. By SATURDAY (!!) I had received a cheque for the full amount I had paid in entry fees (which wasn't a small amount as I'd entered 5 cats). If they can do it, why not dog shows? I'm sure an agricultural show that also use a lot of marquees etc must have had similar outlays. What is so unfair is that the toy and utility exhibitors at Blackpool DID get to show even if it wasn't a very nice day, the rest of us did not.

apparently they are having a meeting 17th and will issue a statement,but maybe some of us who pay a lot of entries at one show feel they at least would like to have had the chance to show our dogs at least ? having bathed and got 4 dogs ready is no joke if shows carry on cancelling at last minute
Its not like its a last minute problem that has occurred and the weather is still no better so heres hoping 

> I'm sure an agricultural show that also use a lot of marquees etc must have had similar outlays.

Our local agricultural show closed a few years ago following two bad summers as have many others.  They often operate on very small margins. 
It's really just a question of whether you want to support societies in the hope that they are there for you next summer.

> but maybe some of us who pay a lot of entries at one show feel they at least would like to have had the chance to show our dogs at least ? having bathed and got 4 dogs ready is no joke if shows carry on cancelling at last minute

They really could not win :).  You seem to have wanted them to go on regardless but others would have found it unacceptable to turn up to find the conditions deplorable, even dangerous, not to mention the journey on roads that were possibly flooding.

> i  just cant afford to pay entries and not go to the show

I don't understand people who are saying this?! If you can't afford it then you wouldn't of entered in the first place? If you did go your expenditure would of been higher than not going.........fuel, food etc

What about the exhibitors from Ireland or the Isle of Man or even further overseas who either A. travelled over for no show or B. Didn't travel as they found out before getting on board the boat but still lost the fare for the ticket?

My total loss for Blackpool was £245, entries for 3 dogs, ferry fare & hotel all non refundable - I haven't asked Blackpool for my £75 entry back as I know they have massives costs already.

And no I am not rich, i don't make money from puppies/studs, i use my hard earned wages to pay for the dogs & I shop cheap & find bargains for myself!

all the more reason to cancel like they did after  first day but could at least give a % of entry fee back
like goldmali says others seem to be able to

A good compromise would be free entries for next year.  Surely they would have had some of their costs covered by Insurance????

I am sure that by then people would probably enter extra dogs with some of them already paid for, could mean a bumper show.

Brilliant idea

> Surely they would have had some of their costs covered by Insurance????

Possibly, although I suspect not and would probably make the premiums impossible for the following years.
How could they meet next years expenditure if no income from entries?

because most people would enter extra dogs, rather than decide not to enter at all through resentement, or fear of similar happening again.

Of course the trade stands pay for their pitches.

> because most people would enter extra dogs, rather than decide not to enter at all through resentement, or fear of similar happening again.

Would they?  If they feel like that would they risk further entry fees or just rock up on the free entry? 
Clearly the fees from trade stands would not be enough to cover a full years expenditure otherwise entry fees would not be pitched as they are.

I don't understand people who are saying this?! If you can't afford it then you wouldn't of entered in the first place? If you did go your expenditure would of been higher than not going.........fuel, food etc

It means you have to enter ANOTHER show instead, doesn't it. What if you're chasing tickets or just plain Crufts qualifications, JW points etc? Points for pup of the year, breeders stakes etc etc -the list is endless really. That means one show lost must be replaced by another that you otherwise might not have entered, hence two entry fees paid for one show =double the fee.

A good compromise would be free entries for next year.  Surely they would have had some of their costs covered by Insurance????

Indeed, and after all isn't this what they did LAST time Blackpool had to be cancelled during the show? Those not judged got free or cheaper entry for the next year.

Its a very strange situation to be in & I'm really not very sure which way I sway.

We all want shows for the future & there are certain expenses of the clubs, that are paid out that arent recouperated(sp?) in cancelled shows.
If the show decided to refund then perhaps x% is fair..whatever amount x is decided upon...say 20/25%, that maybe too high. There are some who dont request refunds ie if its your local club etc. I dont think one should condemn if a club doesnt refund..this year is slightly unusual and the weather is being very unfair. Its unfortunate that it happens to be Blackpool again

I wasn't going to comment on this, but hey ho.......  We were there all week with the caravan, it was a total nightmare by the Friday am, our awning had a river running through it, dogs could not be in there, had to be carried into the van. We were ankle deep in water and mud where we were situated in the field. We were due to show on the first day but could not have got the trolley from where we were over to the show entrance. Dogs could not be walked through all of that mud so we spent the day rescuing everything from the awning and trying to clean up. 

How on earth could they refund people? entered on the following two days. Everything still has to be paid for (benching, tents etc), as for insurance, surely wouldn't be covered for "an act of God" which is what the weather would be classed as. Society would be bankrupt then no show next year, or any other year. 

When we arrived and found the field so wet we should have turned round and gone home, but we didn't and we've just put it down to experience.

I'll be really annoyed if Harewood cash my cheque for camping and the show is xancelled tomorrow. I can't see it going ahead when supposedly the rain is going to last another week.

Well we have not had a refund or heard anything from Blackpool show and as for catalouges i prepaid for mine so they have not had that cost as a lot of people had prepaid .
They could at least put statement out to update people as to what is happening with our money .

There are a very select few emergency situations where the exhibitor may request a refund under some kennel clubs. The only one I know of for sure is at AKC shows where the entry fee may be refunded if a ramp is used in an emergency situation where the use of a ramp was not mentioned previously for that breed. Was also once offered a refund in Junior Handling because our judge fell ill and had to be replaced in the middle of a class. I believe that was in case some Juniors were ineligible to show to the replacement judge though. Most of the time the Rules and Regulations on the show schedule clearly state that entries will not be refunded once the entry has been made.

>as for catalouges i prepaid for mine so they have not had that cost as a lot of people had prepaid .

And that money would have been spent on having the catalogues printed and bound - that's a expense that can't be recouped by the show society. They've probably been dumped/recycled by now, but I know some people were requesting their catalogue be posted to them and offering to send the postage.

> after all isn't this what they did LAST time Blackpool had to be cancelled during the show? Those not judged got free or cheaper entry for the next year.

If I remember correctly the show was abandoned half way through the final day, in Boxers the DCC had been done and they were part way through the bitches, so a reduced entry fee for those not judged wasn't going to be a big hit to the society. Where as this year is was 2 days worth a entries

I guess we are all going to have to agree to disagree in this subject

> It means you have to enter ANOTHER show instead, doesn't it.

No it doesn't mean you HAVE to, I think some people forget this is a hobby!
One show lost does not mean another must be replaced
You choose to enter another show if you're chasing tickets etc, if you didn't enter or weren't planning on going then you must of thought it wouldn't of been worth your time.

No it doesn't mean you HAVE to, I think some people forget this is a hobby!
One show lost does not mean another must be replaced

I show to WIN, not for a day out. If I just wanted a day out with dogs and people, there are far cheaper alternatives than championship shows.

You choose to enter another show if you're chasing tickets etc, if you didn't enter or weren't planning on going then you must of thought it wouldn't of been worth your time.

No, it could well be I had been fairly confident of the FIRST judge liking my dog. Or it could mean that I didn't want to have too many shows entered, for the sake of time with family, petrol costs etc, so I chose certain shows to enter but not all. Or it could mean the cancelled show was closer to home, or in a nicer venue, or anything similar.

> No, it could well be I had been fairly confident of the FIRST judge liking my dog.

Then perhaps the refund should only apply to you ;).
For the majority of entrants its going to be another show anyway.
It was everyones back luck that the weather was quite so bad, the show society and the exhibitors, but the fact is to an individual that is all it is, back luck, but for a show society it could be very much more due to the far greater scale of loss.

I also show to win, not for a day or to make up numbers but it's a HOBBY, not life or death, not the be all & end all, I've lost my money due to a stroke of bad luck with the weather, it is was it is, theres nothing more I can do about it.

Show goes on people complain, show doesn't people complain. They can't win

I'm not complaining either way, I am just pointing out that one show lost DOES mean money lost as it DOES mean another to enter. You said nobody had lost anything and that simply is not true.

Those of us with bitches loose at least some of our entry fees when they come in season, as you can never accurately predict this.

>Of course the trade stands pay for their pitches.

And they've lost a lot of money too.

>i  just cant afford to pay entries and not go to the show

Surely going to the show woud have cost you even more (in fuel) so by not going you've lost less money ...

But it doesn't mean another to enter, that's the exhibitors choice to enter another show.
Blackpool not going ahead doesn't mean everyone must go an enter somewhere else.
I'm not entering another just to make up for not going to Blackpool, I'm sticking to the ones I planned on originally, regardless of points, tickets etc

Why does this not apply to breed shows? http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/cgi-bin/item.cgi?id=2652&d=pg_dtl_art_news&h=239&f=0
Why do you get a part refund (costs are taken out) for obedience and agility shows, but not champ shows?

In the schedule for Blackpool there was a notice stating that there would be no refunds given if the show was cancelled after the close of entries. When entering people agreed to abide by the rules of the show and the KC. So they waived their right to a refund.

but why are they allowed to have that in the schedule, when obedience, agility, etc cannot?

No idea - it does seem bizarre that it's not a blanket rule.

> but why are they allowed to have that in the schedule, when obedience, agility, etc cannot?

Probably due to the very different economics of it.

"Why does this not apply to breed shows? http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/cgi-bin/item.cgi?id=2652&d=pg_dtl_art_news&h=239&f=0
Why do you get a part refund (costs are taken out) for obedience and agility shows, but not champ shows?"

We pay a lot less for our Obedience show entries (normally less than £5 per class, usually unless you happen to be in Ticket at somewhere like SKC or WKC) and, although a refund is offered, a lot of people don't ask for it back but donate it to the society. Sometimes the society will give any left over after expenses to a charity or towards the current fundraising item, defibrilators for use at a show.

Yes, I know :)  but they have to offer refunds.  The same with agility, most people don't take the refunds but donate back to club.

I doubt that the grounds etc. where agility shows are run cost anything like the dog shows do.  Many agility shows also coincide with other shows at the event so again costing less to run. 

Still think it would be nice for us to have some of our money back.

I'm not entering another just to make up for not going to Blackpool, I'm sticking to the ones I planned on originally, regardless of points, tickets etc

But that is YOUR choice. Other people may chose to not have a dog at all, or to have a dog but not show it. It's still not correct to say that nobody will have lost any money, because to some of us, losing one show DOES mean you have to enter another.

> I'm not entering another just to make up for not going to Blackpool, I'm sticking to the ones I planned on originally, regardless of points, tickets etc
>
> But that is YOUR choice. Other people may chose to not have a dog at all, or to have a dog but not show it. It's still not correct to say that nobody will have lost any money, because to some of us, losing one show DOES mean you have to enter another.

Perhaps the point Gemma86 is trying to get over(I may be wrong) is that what would have happened had a cancelled show gone ahead, say in this instance a champ show? You may not have got the prize required ie unplaced instead of placed/placed instead of qualifying/RCC instead of CC.
All it means is you have not exhibited for the money, you have still spent the money exhibited or not, same as if you had gone & been unplaced or any of the other scenarios.

Not sure I am explaining what I mean but I think I get what Gemma means....we all CHOOSE to do different things, nobody HAS to do those things!!

> It's still not correct to say that nobody will have lost any money, because to some of us, losing one show DOES mean you have to enter another.

No. You do not HAVE  TO enter another show. There is nothing compulsory about it. If you choose to enter another show to try to make up points or what ever it is you are chasing then that is entirely up to you. It is hardly Blackpools fault the weather was so foul. You would risk the society going under just so you get your £25 back? that is a very selfish attitude.

Just seen this, from a show I was down to judge at but which was cancelled last week due to weather

Middlesbrough Show refunds
by nickyjw
For various reasons Middlesbrough will not be rescheduling their cancelled show of 21st July
For refunds please send SAE to Nicky Walker, 38 The Viewley Centre, Hemlington, Middlesbrough, TS8 9JH, (must be received by 21st August)
If you haven't already let me know would you email me on nickyjw2003@yahoo.com to let me know you know that the show is cancelled

The club's cancellation policy as in part 6 of the schedule is "In the event that the show is cancelled due to unforeseen circumstances, the club will refund the fee, less reasonably incurred expenses, on receipt of a stamped addressed envelope submitted within one month of the show date."

The club's committee have decided that after deducting expenses (that should be low as trophies, rosettes etc will be used for next years show) and any refunds the club will divide any remaining funds between subsidising its pet classes and two charities
a) SARA (Saltburn Animal Rescue Asssocation) http://s-a-r-a.org.uk/ One of our members is also about to embark on 'Mission Impossible', a 1500 mile sponsored drive across Europe in a 12 year old Corsa in aid of this local charity that does an excellent job in rescuing and rehoming dogs and other animals, and
b) to support Rugby DTCs fundraising for defribillators for use at obedience shows (Avon Canine Trust),

Many thanks again for those who offered to judge/steward or help in any other way at our show. We will be holding a show in 2013 that will be our 50th Anniversary year!!
Nicky Walker
Show Sec

>I doubt that the grounds etc. where agility shows are run cost anything like the dog shows do.  Many agility shows also coincide with other shows at the event so again costing less to run. 

I do a lot of agility shows, very few are attached to anything else, the majority are stand alone.  We generally use the same grounds as breed shows (newbury showground / Ardingly) so costs there would be the same.  We don't have benching to pay out for but I imagine they have to pay out for hire of equipment still if things are cancelled and of course trophies / rossettes would have already been ordered.

Im still waiting to see how much my refund will be for the last show, the society are waiting to see what there insurers will pay out.  The show society wont go under by giving out refunds because they take out costs before calculating refunds.

Do you have a lot of marquees and branching for agility shows?

> still not correct to say that nobody will have lost any money

I never said nobody has lost money..........we've all lost at least the entry fee, but some have saved on the fuel they would have spent getting there

Guess we agree to disagree :)

Yes Lexy that's my point, so many times I've entered under some one who I thought should like my dogs and they don't lol (still never learn!)
Where as this weekend at National W&P I entered just for the chance but didn't have any high hopes, ended up with Demba winning MPD & Razzle winning OD, DCC & BOB!

Any who, what's done is done, lets look forward to *sunny* Leeds! :)

I do agility and breed shows and there is no point in trying to compare the two. Whilst several agility shows are held at venues such as Newbury,Ardingly etc the cost to organise such an event and cost of entries is much smaller than at champ breed shows,I used to belong to a club which held an annual agility show and now train with a club which also runs an annual show.

The average fee per class in agility is about £2.75 whereas the first entry in champ breed classes is normally £25.The last 3 agility shows I was meant to go to were cancelled due to the weather and in total I have probably lost about£30 in fees.However every show has said I can claim a refund in part once all bills have been deducted but I have offered to let them put it towards the charity of their choice instead.

Had this been the cancellation of 3 champ breed shows then my loss in fees would be in excess of about £140 and that is with just one dog so as you can see it is fruitless to compare the two.

I saw recently in an agility mag that the kc has put out a statement to say that if shows are cancelled then they can't be held at a later date as this penalises people who may not be able to take part on another date and that after reasonable costs have been paid out for the show expenses then the competitors should be offered a partial refund.

I don't understand why this rule does not apply to champ breed shows aswell.

But then again docked dogs are not allowed to take part in breed shows where the public pays an entry fee but the same docked dog can take part in a kc agility show such as olympia or crufts where there is a spectator fee as defra has classed them as working dogs even if the only work they ever do is taking part in agility!

Seems to me that the show fraternity gets the raw deal

"I saw recently in an agility mag that the kc has put out a statement to say that if shows are cancelled then they can't be held at a later date as this penalises people who may not be able to take part on another date and that after reasonable costs have been paid out for the show expenses then the competitors should be offered a partial refund."

That's interesting as we have had the opposite reaction to cancelled Championship Obedience shows. Most of them have been rescheduled as completely new shows (probably because they are Crufts qualifiers), can't remember if that applies to any Open shows as I'm not competing this year so doesn't affect me.

It has just been announced we WILL get reduced entry fees for Blackpool next year (i.e. those of us that did not get judged):
http://www.dogworld.co.uk/product.php/75801