I know we're always discussing random crosses, but this one has left me with my mouth wide open.. 'Bear Mastiffs'- St Bernard x English Mastiff. Being described as 'Best of both breeds'.. 'flead and wormed' before going to new homes.. Apparently due to HIGH DEMAND (eughhh) there aren't many left.

Poor, poor puppies.

very sad :(

Poor Pups !!!

Ah but they are "flead and wormed" so I wouldn't worry, the breeder must be highly reputable LOL.

Seriously though, this cross is a recipe for disaster. I can't imagine how many of them will end up in rescue :-(.

I'd imagine many of them will be put to sleep as they'd not be very popular in rescues would they? :((( Breaks my heart.

Sadly being pts might be better than the various alternatives. :-(

I wonder why not just breed Leonbergers?

> Seriously though, this cross is a recipe for disaster. I can't imagine how many of them will end up in rescue :-(.

First and foremost, let me say that personally, I don't condone any deliberate cross-breeding. But I must admit, I am struggling to see what is any more disastrous about this cross than any other. The two breeds are of a similar size which makes the eventual size of the puppies a bit easier to hazard a guess at.  Anyone taking one on, or a full bred pup of either breed, should be expecting to end up with a big one. I guess they could end up odd colours depending on the Mastiff parent but not sure why that would matter.

Were you thinking that they'll be difficult to home in the first place? 

Isn't it due to the fact that generally a cross of breeds seems to be ending up bigger then each parent? (am thinking especially of the labradoodles who are ending up in the 50kg range when typically labs and standard poodles are in the 30kg bracket, and i've also seen cavapoos end up 12kg+)

If you are going to end up with bigger-then-parents pups using mastiffs and saints then I would say you are setting them up for joint problems and maybe a lot of pain. Plus people taking on these pups aren't going to necessarily be people who would own a saint or mastiff, but want to own the next big designer cross (no pun intended) and so won't have a clue about safe, slow growing or appropriate exercise etc. Finally, I know of mastiffs and saints from less then great breeders who have less then great temperaments, and realistically breeders of crosses like this aren't going to give a fig about temperaments so *potentially* you will have bolshy or even nasty 60kg+ dogs with owners who don't have a clue. .

But I must admit, I am struggling to see what is any more disastrous about this cross than any other.

Because they are giant. So many people get a designer cross just because there is some sort of status in it, so don't consider the purchase properly, don't look into things at all. That's far more disastrous if they end up with a giant dog as opposed to a toy sized or even large one -that type of person (not done research etc) would be more likely to give up quickly on a large slobbering dog that has poos the size of cowpats and puddles the size of oceans.......

> Finally, I know of mastiffs and saints from less then great breeders who have less then great temperaments, and realistically breeders of crosses like this aren't going to give a fig about temperaments so *potentially* you will have bolshy or even nasty 60kg+ dogs with owners who don't have a clue.

Much larger than 60kg :(  My boy (Mastiff) isn't very bulky nor exceptionally tall (32") and he's about 90kg.

You are soooo right about the temperment issue. With a giant dog surely, for public (and personal!) safety, temperment has to be a HUGE factor. These are very large and powerfull dogs. I don't know about the St. Bernards temperment, but the Mastiff is not a push-over to train. I researched, not just the breed, but also training and canine behaviour for a few YEARS before I got my mastiff pup and I still found it hard work. Those people that think they can get one of these pups and be the 'boss' (ie CM style) will have a bit of a shock, that could potentially turn out disaterous.

Then, as you also point out, giant breeds come with a host of 'special requirements' during growth.

People will see these crosses and get them for the designer aspect. :(

Those poor pups and the poor parents being used to churn out a litter for money :(

> If you are going to end up with bigger-then-parents pups using mastiffs and saints then I would say you are setting them up for joint problems and maybe a lot of pain.

Just pondering really, but this doesn't sound terribly scientific to me. I don't think the bigger they are, the more painful joints they will have. I doubt if they will have a long life - the giant breeds often don't. But I can't believe it necessarily follows that the bigger they are, the worse their muscular-skeletal problems will be.

To be honest, the designer crosses that worry me the most are those that are bred to look macho. They seem to attract some undesirable owners from what I've seen. I knew someone who bred Boxerdors. Guess what - they looked uncannily like PB types, and hefty with it. But he never had any problems homing them, horrible man!

I've met a couple of Boxermans around here ! Guess these come from the Flead and wormed kennel too !