So I am kinda new to this. We have a 2 year old bitch who came into heat a few weeks ago. After much consideration, we decided to breed her with our other dog (same breed). We left the two out together in the daytime for about a week, but now the problem starts. How do i know when her expected whelping date is? Do I count from the first day they tied or the last day? Also I was wondering if the amount of ties they have will determine the litter size, ie. one or two ties - normal size litter, 5-6 ties - bigger litter. We have another bitch who had 11 puppies, and we were hoping that this litter won't be as big.

Thanks

>We left the two out together in the daytime for about a week, but now the problem starts. How do i know when her expected whelping date is? Do I count from the first day they tied or the last day?

I am wondering if your joking?  You seem to be embarking on a potentially life threatening experience for your bitch with barely the most basic idea of what is involved.

I take it that both your dogs have been x-rayed Hip scored?  Elbow scored, eye tested, DNA tested for prcd-PRA (or come from parents that were DNA cleared).  That they are good working dogs, and/or had good results at shows, and are of excellent breed type and temperament.

It's very lucky that you have the ideal mate for your bitch in your own dog, most breeders search high and low for the best mate, often travelling many miles, even abroad.

With thousands of your breed bred each year there is no shortage of this breed and if your dog shave nothing special to offer other than fertility then you would be best to terminate the pregnancy, (by getting the Alizin injection after her season finishes and before she reaches 6 weeks from first mating) especially if the required health tests have not been completed with satisfactory results.

Buyers are becoming wiser and wiser and will take you to court if the pups develop an issue that could have been avoided by health screening.

yes both of our dogs have had the required tests and are excellent examples of the breed. we have had the stud dog since he was a puppy - it took months of research and visits to breeders to find him - and actually spent two years looking for the right mate, temperment wise, size wise and pedigree wise.both of our dogs come from champion bloodlines. we actually bought the bitch from a dog show judge. I am not a very experienced breeder. I dont have over 30 years of breeding knowledge etc, but I do my best and look after my dogs and puppies to the best of my abilities. I asked the question of when i start counting the days, because i am not sure. my bitch was bred over a week period and i want to have the right due date, so i know when to bring her for her ultrasound etc. and also to know if or when she is in trouble eg. pups born to early, pups overdue.

we also have homes found for all of these puppies. I was hoping she wouldn't have as many puppies as our last, because i dont want her under a lot of strain and pressure.

The OP's first post was at the end of May and they then had a litter of 12 puppies.

The litter were 8 weeks old in may, and they all had homes waiting for them. I have three dogs, My stud dog, and two bitches. We were going to only have one litter this year, but we have a waiting list of people who want these puppies. we decided to have two litters this year, but next year we will not be having any. we are breeding them so close, because we have all the supplies ready for the next litter. we had intended to breed from only one this year, but if we were to leave her til her next heat, she would have the puppies in winter and they would be around christmas time, which we do not want. It is very close together, but all of these puppies are wanted and will be well looked after.

If you've had the hip and elbow scoring and eye testing done on 3 dogs, how come you were able to sell the last pups for just 300 euros each? Must have made a big loss. The adverts didn't mention anything but "vet check" though.

If you wanted to know due date you should not have left two dogs together for a full week, simple as that.

Ash, your case is very unusual. To answer your question, whelping date is 63 days from first mating but I take it that the problem you have is you do not know when that was? I say that is unusual as breeders would not normally allow a mating unsupervised. This is because while matings can and do happen without injury there is a significant chance of injury if either dog or bitch attempt to pull away during the tie. I take it this is your bitch's first litter as she is 2? If so, then there is a greater chance of injury during mating. I would not chance the injury for either dog or bitch. Had you taken your bitch to a stud dog, the stud dog owner would be on hand to supervise, would be there to support and calm the dog and I myself held and soothed my maiden bitches both of us doing our best so that neither would pull away minimising the opportunity for injury to either dog. You sound very inexperienced, have you sought the advice of the breeders of your bitches and dog?

I think because you have 'just let the dogs out together' rather than the normal supervision to minimise or prevent injury you have obtained a shocked reaction here tbh.

Personally, I was shattered beyond belief when my litter went to their new homes and could not contemplate breeding again for months while I recovered so I have no idea where your energy comes from! I'm not breeding again ever though, however proud of my litter I am. My litter were years in the planning and I gave them every ounce of energy I had spare for an entire decade.

breeders well only allow 2 mateing once the bitch is allowing the male to mate her! and only 1 mateing is needed if the bitch as been progestron tested! so no1 is can say when there due!

I too was shocked that you left them alone to get on with it for a full week, think yourself lucky that neither dog is injured.

Some bitches/studs will mate whether ready or not, but as you don't know if they mated/tied and they had 7 days to do it then you are going to have to go with 63days[could be up to a week before] from the first day and last day you put them together, most breeders only have 48hrs between 2 matings to work out the due date, my girls have been 2 days early from a first mating or bang on for the second mating.

You will have to hope the scanner can give you an accurate gestational age for the pups so you can work out when she is due.

Sorry if i didn't make myself clear. when i said we left them out together for a week, i ment we placed the two dogs together in an enclosure in the garden where they were supervised at all times. When they had tied and were checked to see if they were ok after the tie, they were put into seperate enclosures. We did this for about 5 days, with them tieing successfully 3 times during the 5 days, but only for short periods of about 5 minutes. I have all my dates wrote down in my diary and was just making sure i was correct in saying that you count 63 days from the first mating and that is your due date, but it can happen from any time after 57 days. I will be checking her temperature daily from about 50 days to see when the temperature drops.
Thanks.

i will also be bringing her for an ultrasound at around 30 days and then again in her last week.

I came into this thinking that i would not be able to part with any puppy, but was surprised that i managed to leave them all go. my favourite part was actually the new owners faces when they left with their new puppy. i did have one puppy that i was particularly attatched to, but i got over it when i realised what a good new home he was going to. i am and will keep in touch with the new owners and enjoy hearing from them. I am actually looking forward to this litter. we have a long waiting list for these puppies and they will be going to great homes where they will be loved and cared for and i think that is how and also why i can breed another litter so near to my first litter.

Majority of breeders on here only have a litter when they are looking to keep something back for themselves to show and carry on the line with, personally I couldn't put in all the hard work needed to whelp and raise a litter if I wasn't planning on keeping at least one back for myself, there can be occasions when you don't get the quality or the sex you wanted but I wouldn't start out planning to sell them all.

we are actually considering keeping a puppy out of this litter, but that is only if there is one outstanding puppy.... I am hoping that there will be! :)