Hi,
I wondered if you could help, I have a labrador who is 7yrs old and I'm thinking about having her spayed as she's soon going to be living a male dog and I don't want the complication of locking them in different rooms for X number of weeks a year if I leave them alone in the house together.

Is 7yrs too late to have a bitch spayed, are there any complications I should look out for, as I've read about cancers, incontinence, but then on the positive side I've read it can help solve prolapse problems (childhood family lab, prolasped in later life)

So, Good idea or bad idea... just dont want to mess with my dogs body if its the wrong thing to do.

Thanks

At her age it's probably a good idea to spay her whilst she's fit and healthy and only middle aged, because the risk of pyometritis (potentially life-threatening infection of the uterus, necessitating emergency surgery) increases with every season. Most breeder have their bitches spayed at about that age, when they've had their last litter, because of this. There is a small risk of spay incontinence afterwards, but that can usually be well controlled with inexpensive medication if it occurs. I think spaying her now (about 3 months after a season) would be a very sensible thing to do.

No it is not too late in fact the ideal age as it is the middle aged/older bitches that are at most risk of Pyometra, especially if they have not been bred from.

This is the age most of my bitches are spayed as they often have their last litter between 6 - 7 years of age.

Hi
Thanks very much for the positive replies, Is there a way to improve the odds re the incontinence issue or is it just luck of the draw, or the skill of the surgeon ?

Totally luck of the draw, I'm afraid. It's to do with the lack of oestrogen which weakens the bladder sphincter. Most bitches don't suffer from it (4 out of 5 are fine for the rest of their lives) so it's not a good reason to avoid the operation.

There is a school of thought that says spay incontinence can also be caused/exacerbated by the loss of the uterus as it provides physical support for the bladder.  If this is true - then you could reduce the risk by just having her ovaries out.  In skilled hands this is a smaller operation & also pretty much eradicates the risk of pyometra as it's mediated by the hormones produced by the ovaries.

I've got my girl in today to be spayed. I asked the vet (again) if he thought her age would be a problem (she's 7 1/2) and he said no, it was a good age and as long as she was fit and healthy, which she is, it would be ok.

I had a 10 year old rescue spayed some time ago and she recovered well from the op, my vets are very good, minimal scarring and no bladder issues.  However it took her 2 days to really get over the anaesthetic and it really wiped her out for 24 hours.  My beagle was spayed at about 15 months with no problem at all, she was a bit subdued the same day but back to bouncing up the walls the following day.

When they do 'keyhole' spays is this what they are doing? Just removing the ovaries?

Yes, they are usually just removing the ovaries.

Keyhole spays have a really fast recovery time and don't even need much buster-collar wearing, because the external cuts are very small.  Without the hormones provided by the ovaries, the uterus shrivels to a tiny size and there have been no documented cases of pyometra in dogs spayed in this manner, in continental Europe, where it has been a much more popular method of spaying for years.

7yo is an ideal time to spay, as her ovaries have been in there a long time and so the ovary-exposure has been long (which increase her chances of having a v long life).

>there have been no documented cases of pyometra in dogs spayed in this manner, in continental Europe

This is very interesting; please would you provide links to the studies? I can only find reports about there being no endometritis, but nothing about pyometritis.

Sure:

http://igitur-archive.library.uu.nl/vet/2007-0302-205315/Goethem%20van,%20Schaefer-Okkens,%20Kirpensteijn%3BMaking%20a%20rational%20choice%20between%20ovariectomy%20and%20ovariohysterectomy%20in%20the%20dog%20a%20discussion%20of%20the%20benefits%20of%20either%20technique.pdf

Relevant bit (OVE = ovaries out:  OVH = conventional ovaries and uterus)

"it is important to determine whether the uterus in ovariectomized dogs is predisposed to develop end- ometritis and pyometra. Pyometra has been defined as a hormonally mediated diestral disorder resulting from bac- terial interaction with an abnormal uterine endometrial that has undergone pathologic changes assumed to be caused by an exaggerated response to progesterone stim- ulation.31

Recently, the concept of considering CEH- pyometra as a complex has been questioned. It has been suggested that 2 different disorders: one where CEH-end- ometritis appears to have a strong hormonal component and the other where pyometra might be more influenced by the bacterial component.28

Nevertheless, both condi- tions are exclusively encountered in the luteal phase of the estrus cycle. Experimentally CEH or CEH-endometritis can be induced by administration of progesterone, even in ovariectomized bitches.20

Withdrawal of progesterone treatment causes regression of the naturally occurring disease. Thus exposure to progestagen appears to be nec- essary for the development of CEH-endometritis.

A study by Okkens et al comparing the long-term ef- fects of OVE versus OVH was conducted at the Univer- sity of Utrecht in 1997.6

Questionnaires were sent to 264 owners of bitches that had either OVE (n 1⁄4 126) or OVH (n 1⁄4 138) performed for routine neutering 8-11 years ear- lier.

Complete data were obtained for 69 OVE bitches and 66 OVH bitches. None of the OVE bitches had signs consistent with having had endometritis. With the excep- tion of urinary incontinence, no other problems related to surgical neutering were identified. These findings agree with those of Janssens who performed OVE on 72 bitches and after a 6-10 year follow-up, no pyometra was de- tected.7

When OVE is correctly performed (all ovarian tissue removed), and in the absence of supplementation of exogenous progestagens, endometritis (CEH OR pyometra) cannot occur.

Stump pyometra is uniquely associated with OVH, and can develop if endometrial tissue at the uterine stump is stimulated by either endogenous, because of incomplete ovarian tissue removal, or by exogenously administered progesterone.20

In Okkens et al9 report on 55 dogs with gynecologic complications after OVH, 19 (35%) had stump pyometra associated with residual ovarian tissue. In the same study 47 bitches had histologically confirmed CEH-endometritis during celiotomy; abdominal explo- ration revealed the presence of residual ovarian tissue in all of these dogs. Another 7 dogs an enlarged and in- flamed uterine stump, where no residual ovarian tissue was detected and on histology the inflammation was caused by an unabsorbed ligature (stump granuloma) without signs of CEH.9

These studies strongly suggest that progesterone is an essential factor in the occurrence of CEH-endometritis- and pyometra and that correctly performed, OVH or OVE will prevent development CEH-pyometra in later life. OVE will not increase the chance for development of pyometra compared with OVH."

Please forgive my ignorance, but does a bitch continue to have seasons after removal of ovaries only?

No as it's the hormones secreted by the ovaries that are responsible for seasons.

Thank you for this information. When I have my bitch spayed I plan to opt for keyhole. Is there a downside that should be taken into account as I don't understand why this method, with so many apparent pros, is not more popular?

Well at the vets in my area that do it is costs £100 more, so £300 odd.

I once bought a tiny, tiny bitch, just so I could have her spayed (long story!)

As a 5 year old now, she weighs 3lbs.  I had her spayed after her first season, and the vet who operated actually made an incision just over an inch long.  Keyhole surgery has 2 incisions, and costs £100 more.  Why would I want 2 cuts?

I did actually ask him in disbelief how the heck he managed the op!  He looked surprised, and said "experience!"

He regularly spays ferrets, so I guess that helps.  :-)

Lol, she probably weighs as much as one of my dog's feet. I imagine on a tiny dog the keyhole option wouldn't really be beneficial, but on a big dog, it would make a difference and for the sake of £100 I'd be happier to opt for a significantly lower impact procedure. I'm wondering if there are are health related cons?

>Lol, she probably weighs as much as one of my dog's feet.

    :-)  :-)

Yes, they do say that sometimes keyhole surgery isn't possible on very small dogs - I guess maybe it is just a bit too fiddly to get the equipment in there and everything is much reduced in size...

There are no disadvantages to this method for larger dogs, other than it being more expensive because of the equipment they need to do it.  IMO that expense is worth it because recovery is quicker, length of time under GA is much shorter, trauma/invasiveness much less and infection/complications during recovery less likely too.

There are some folk who believe it also reduces the incidence of incontinence:  Because some believe that incontinence happens when the uterus is removed and so no longer supports the bladder, causing seepage.  Others believe that incidence of incontinence would remain the same because it is caused by hormones and the hormones will be removed with the ovaries.

As a matter of interest.  Does anybody know if a bitch is more likely to suffer spay incontinence at any particular age? 

What I mean is, is it dependent on having the operation early or late?  In age I mean.

Missie

How did your girl do yesterday?

I haven't read any research which says anything about that, Jean.  But, the later you spay, the fewer years the bitch will need to be on medication to control the incontinence, if it does result in that.

I have to be honest.  I have owned many dogs, and always for the whole of their lives.  Some bitches, never bred from, and spayed at varying ages (because some breeds you need to give it a while to see if they reach enough potential to breed from.)

Others spayed  after one or two litters.  And both my Bearded Collie bitches have never been bred from, and weren't spayed until middle age.  Yet I've never seen spay incontinence.

I had one Yorkshire Terrier bitch who was a pet and never intended to be used for breeding.  Yet she was spayed at 10 years, only due to having difficulty weeing.  I'm assuming, as I've owned a relatively large number of dogs over the years, that spay incontinence only happens to a minority of bitches?

>I'm assuming, as I've owned a relatively large number of dogs over the years, that spay incontinence only happens to a minority of bitches?

According to the veterinary magazines at work, it affects about 20%.

> According to the veterinary magazines at work, it affects about 20%.

Are there any details giving the age at spaying? I would be inclined to think it has a bearing.

Hi, well they found a couple of very large cysts on her ovaries, and they also removed one on her mammary gland, said it was good she came in when she did - She was asleep all day yesterday and has whined all day today, bless her x back at the vets in the morning for post op check, but the stitches are dry and clean at the moment. Thanks for asking.

It does sound as if your girl went in at the right time.  I'm glad that she came through it ok.  But, if she's whining, I would be inclined to ask for some pain relief.  I would do with my own, I don't think they have to "be brave" if we can give them a little help.

I hope she continues to improve.  Good Luck.  :-)

Thank you :)

Poor girl hope she makes a speedy recovery x

After my Mums bitch was spayed she appeared to be in alot of pain so Mum rang the vets and spoke to the one who had done the op, she told Mum that Penny was a wimp and to stop mollicoddling her, she was livid and asked to speak to the senior vet on duty and told him that I would be there shortly for some pain meds,she sent in a letter of complaint and got an apology from the practice owner but not the vet who made the comment. Penny only needed one dose of the pain med, by next day she was back to her usual self.

Penny had surgery for a Liver Shunt  8 months before the spay and was so brave post op, when we went to collect her I bent down to carry her down the 3 steps but she was heading for the car before anyone changed their mind about her going home.

Penny changed in that before she would take any amount of cuddling, now any cuddles are on her terms and short, whether it was hormonal or the trauma of 2 surgeries close together I don't know, her coat altered too,she has this grey fluff [ I have tried allsorts to get rid but it just comes back thicker]on her legs which is a magnet for any debris outside,she has been mistaken for a black and tan dapple dachsie instead of the black and tan she is, her black bits are not as shiney either.

As none of my bitches have been spayed I can't say if the coat and attitude change is breed related or not.

It's well known that spaying affects the coat.  Not so sure about the cuddling, but it is true that bitches are more cuddly at some points of their cycles than others, so stands to reason that spaying might affect that too.

Thank you Lucy x

I remember when Maddie was spayed, now that girl had a very high pain threshold and was remarkable how she came out of a GDV, Intersuception (sp) operation within a day and I had to keep her calm BUT the spay completely got to her and it took 3 or 4 days before you could say she was back to normal. Now this girl is different, she doesn't 'do' pain so I'm in for the long haul here I think! lol. But until she shows me she is back to barking at the wind blowing, or people daring to walk past the house, then I will pamper to her every whim as she is sooo worth it :)  Maddie's temperament never changed  after spaying but her coat, now that was a nightmare after 12 months, so thick and woolly to get a comb through I felt like shaving it off (but didn't).