Hi it's me again, Roxy keeps taking her puppy out of the whelpimg box everytime I turn my back, shes picking it up by anyway she can, the tail or a leg, I don't get why she's wanting to do it, Her box is in my bedroom in the quite away from people walking past it, she's whining alot too & not eating much, if it's not puppy I'm
Worried about its Roxy... Any suggestions I Darnt leave the house incase pup ends up getting chilled, last night i took my clothes off to go for a bath when i returned she'd moved the puppy onto my bra...

We never left the puppies at all for the first 2 weeks, if I need to wash or go to the loo then my daughter came and puppy sat though I realise there may be times when you need to nip to the loo if no one is around but I'd leave the washing/shower until you have someone to mind for you. Some bitches don't like not to be part of the family so do better in the lounge. That's ok but I would not allow visitors in the lounge and keep to only residents of the house so people the bitch knows well and won't feel threatened by.

I did have her in the lounge but she wasn't happy that's why I moved her upstairs, plus I didn't want my children's friends disturbing her, it's easier to stop anyone going upstairs, I have to take my children to & from school there the only times I pop out but I'm only out 15 minutes at a time, The puppy is a week old tomorrow so another week it may get a little easier.

I'd say she's not happy where she is or needs it a little more den like.   If you have a puppy pen. put it round and drape blankets/sheets over to make a camopy and have the round as well.  Or move her dwn stairs if posssible and still make the den. xx

Hope that helps

we stayed with ours 24/7 - but if we needed to loo and there was no one around we would ensure pups were warm and take Mum with us! so that she could not harm the babies - might be an idea?

When my son was small I always told him to stay away from mother and pups......he always swore that he would.
But I always knew if he'd sneaked a peak...the mother would cover the pups over entirely.

Total seclusion for this type of bitch obviously ( not all need or want it) by keeping her contained ( not free to wander) in a small well covered dark area...it should help.

Not experienced this in 30 years but always had covered (Snowsilk) whelping box and never left a bitch unattended. :(

> she's whining alot too & not eating much

You should still be hand feeding in the whelping box at this stage.  Lots of bitches that are not fed in the box will go down to skin and bone. 

Maybe she feels a little on edge, breeding isn't something you can do in a room upstairs. Aside of the family goings on. Having a litter will consume your life for a good while. I think she would feel better if perhaps you were a little more prepared on what to do and expect.

I'm sure your kids would survive either playing out or if not old enough not to be supervised no friends playing in until pup is 4 weeks at least. If I needed the loo or a shower etc mum comes with me and pups are left warm and secure for max of 10 mins. She needs some reassurance that your there for her, sit by the box watch her feed the pup and feed her in there. What are you feeding her. Having a bath is something that waits until pups have left. A gentlemans wash in the early days.

Id have her spayed after this as she hasn't the mothering instinct and you need to gain an awful lot more experience and knowledge before you breed again. Is there a breeder in your area where you can learn the ropes and they can mentor you.

> and you need to gain an awful lot more experience and knowledge before you breed again.

The OP has bred several litters, so not a novice in my eyes.  Confident enough to mate up 2 bitches closely together, she didn't know that one wouldn't take.

"I didn't want my children's friends disturbing her"

Perhaps I am a bit over cautious, but I actually don't allow any visitors for around the first two weeks - depending how things have gone.
I would  be inclined to keep her downstairs, where your girl is used to spending her days and in a nice quiet room, well away from any hustle and bustle of family life.

Or maybe just lucky that they have been problem free and very good mums? With all the questions it seems as if she still has a lot to learn. Like not knowing the need to stimulate for ps n poos, etc .This is a great place to get advice though. but I think you need to gain some more knowledge through books and research.

My poor girl refused point blank to eat after losing two puppies, it took lots of time and patience and I had to spoon feed her and syringe feed fluids for a couple of weeks. Sometime she would clamp her mouth, all very upsetting, but with lots of reassurance and perseverance she came round.

I think its the first time she's had a problem and maybe a little overwhelmed cautious.  I would be.  My dogs, one wanted upstairs and the other didn't.  i learnt when mum didn't settle following what I'd done with my first girl :)   I did manage to compromise as she wanted me up there as well, Made her more secluded, a bit hard at christmas lol, and she was happy.

I have had 2 litters from my other dog afew years ago, But it was pretty plain sailing, I've read loads of books and searched the internet until i can't search no more, But until you come across something you don't really know, its all a learning curve, I brought her into the lounge and she wasn't happy so that why i moved her upstairs, would you recommend putting her in a pen so she can't move puppy around.

Can you not stay with her so she doesn't feel the need to move round? My worry with having her penned in would be stressing her out and not caring for willow.  I had to force feed my girl for the first few days sugary egg and chicken meal blended to slop with goats milk. She had an infection too so didn't feel up to eating. She was also a very good mum and didn't want to leave babies. So was fed with them. I have the whelping box in the room I spend most time in as a family but its 50%50% as we spend most time in kitchen as its a kitchen diner during the day and chill out in living room once babies in bed. I spend a lot if time sat in there with her whilst she feeds.stroking her and making sure each pup is latched and feeding well.

> would you recommend putting her in a pen so she can't move puppy around.

     Yes.

> would you recommend putting her in a pen so she can't move puppy around.

     Yes in these circumstances.......yes.

I do agree with Louise that you need to be with this bitch 24/7 for a good while yet.  I don't know any breeders that don't know this.  Yes, you have to go out of your way to arrange this, but it is part and parcel of responsible breeding.

Sorry if I've missed a bit but is she moving the pup to where ever you are. Say for instance if you nipped to the loo, would mum bring the pup to you?

No she would just move her onto the rug or on a pile of my clothes was last night one

Definitely would not allow any strangers in the house -doesn't matter if they are downstairs, the bitch can still HEAR them. I don't even let my own kids come round to my house for the first 2 weeks.

Absolutely no visitors and stay with her 24/7

I have to take my children to & from school I'm Out of the house literally 15 minutes morning & afternoon, when I got back this afternoon, Roxy had taken my pj's and put them in her whelp ing box & mother & baby snuggled up on them.

She obviously wants to smell you while she is in there.  I would be putting each night's pair of pjs in the whelping box after wearing them

Aw bless her x

she sound frightend and just dont understand motherhood yet!, she wnats you to tell her shes doing great :) ,ive had a girl like this she had 3 pups her 1st and last litter it took her 3 days to take to them i didnt leave her side and cat naped next to the whelping box, once she was ok with them i sleeped on the sofa as her whelping box was in there ,no1 came in only me and hubby the kids went in to the dinning room or bedrooms to playgames/tv we worked everything out before pups came what was going to happen just incase! i know us mothers have to do alot of other stuff to but if you get a bitch like yours then you need to plan in advance (im not having a go at you!)....this is what ive do for the litters ive had here, and if the mums have been very good then its all good but i still never leave at all untill some1 here to watch her and pups, i would never forgive myself if a pup died because i wasnt there, and i know it can still happen if youve fell asleep but when mum needs me im there x

Might be more practical to take a piece of towel of bedding material (or several pieces) to bed with you so it smelt of you and replace it in her box each morning.

Sometimes we have to go with the flow.

"when I got back this afternoon, Roxy had taken my pj's and put them in her whelping box & mother & baby snuggled up on them. " The puppy could just as easily been suffocated or lost in the folds of your clothes. Just not worth the risk of leaving her unattended imo.

I have to take my children to & from school I'm Out of the house literally 15 minutes morning & afternoon,
I don't leave my litters for 5 minutes until the bitch has settled - I take them with me to the loo and into the kitchen when I make a sandwich/coffee.  A puppy can be squashed or suffocated in a minute!
It would be safer and kinder (she obviously frightened and isn't confident to be left on her own) not to leave her at all at this time.

Okay playing devils advocate, she HAS to take her kids to school, so, as long as pups are warm and fed before she goes, can she leave the pups for 15 minutes to taqke kids to school and take the bitch with her????
Lea :)

I don't take the bitches into a public place while they have pups, it's too much of a risk for infection.

> I don't take the bitches into a public place while they have pups, it's too much of a risk for infection.

Surely the bitch could stay in the car - or, as it seems to be a Toy breed, carried if they walk?

thats what I was thinking, taking her out but carrying her or taking her in the car x
Lea :)

Is there no friends or family that could do some shifts for you so you get some "time out" for essential things.
Perhaps another parent at the school could collect your children and drop them off at school for you.
Your bitch is clearly telling you she wants you near. After all, i assume she is a pet and when our pets are anxious they just want reassurance from us that everything is going to be ok. When you are not there to reassure her she is taking drastic measures!
You really need someone else on board to help you out here. Driving with your children in the car while you are rushing through traffic and you have your mind on your bitch & pup is a recipe for an accident and a minute too long at the school gates could cause many tears when you return home.

> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">> I don't take the bitches into a public place while they have pups, it's too much of a risk for infection.<br />Surely the bitch could stay in the car - or, as it seems to be a Toy breed, carried if they walk?

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I'd never have got my girls away from the pups long enough without them fretting for their babies and its not fair to put mum through that.  Its a risk that has to be taken in my eyes if no on else can do the school run.  I wouldn't risk contamination by taking her out of the house

can she leave the pups for 15 minutes to taqke kids to school and take the bitch with her????
As both a single parent and a responsible breeder, I have never mated a bitch if I couldn't have made arrangements to give her the undivided attention that she needed after whelping. :(
None of my bitches would have been happy to be further than the loo or kitchen for a few minutes with me.

>Okay playing devils advocate, she HAS to take her kids to school, so, as long as pups are warm and fed before she goes, can she leave the pups for 15 minutes to taqke kids to school and take the bitch with her????

I'd say it's less stressful for the bitch to be safely confined in her whelping box with the pup for this short time. As you say, taking the children to school isn't an option; the pup's a few days old now so getting stronger day by day. Leaving the pup will probably be more stressful than having the owner leave.

>I'd say it's less stressful for the bitch to be safely confined in her whelping box with the pup for this short time. As you say, Not taking the children to school isn't an option; the pup's a few days old now so getting stronger day by day. Leaving the pup will probably be more stressful than having the owner leave.

Ah hadnt thought of that, was just thinking she wanted to be with her :)
Good point everyone :)
Lea :)

Hi just an update Thanks again for all your comments, I have been getting my mum in to look after them when ive been shopping, but things are improving day by day pup is growing mum is happier, so all is good at the minute, once she gets to 2 weeks i won't have to worry so much.

"I'd say it's less stressful for the bitch to be safely confined in her whelping box with the pup for this short time"

Blimey, the voice of reason :-) Thank goodness for that!

There is only one pup after all - I had a litter of 12 some years back and I must admit doing the school run did cause me a lot of concern, due to my worry that a pup could accidentally get squashed by Mum (it is a lot of puppies for a dam to keep safe). I was only out for ten - fifteen mins and so I decided for that duration it was safer to pop the pups in a box and separate from their Mum. This was after the first week (hubby took first week off and did the school run for me). All bitches are different, but mine was perfectly happy with this arrangement.
With one toy breed bitch and pup, I don't see any real problem with leaving them alone for that short period of time and better than taking the Mum in the car.

That is great news, glad Mum is settling now :-)

A litter of 12 OMG!!!
She seems fine for the short time I'm out & she's happier now, I think she's realised pup is here to stay and no body wants to take her, just weighed her to I'm amazed how quick they put weight on, she's 105g now from the 65g she was at birth, it's been an emotional & heartbreaking week, But seems I have a little fighter & I've already totally fallen in love with her, she's a little miracle xx

Ah I know exactly how you must be feeling, hopefully things have turned a corner now :-) xx

THANK YOU so much xx

> >I've already totally fallen in love with her, she's a little miracle xx

You do, especially the singletons and the ones you worry about.  Sounds like she's staying.  My singleton would sleep in mums arms ar by her belly, never went anywhere else apart from her toy.  I put a special toy in and some other one at night for her to snuggle round.  I also found mum more protective in meeting the other dogs and 'watching' what baby's doing even now. 

If you could see my girl and her little girl aged 7 weeks now, playing endlessly in the garden (when normally by now Mum has well and truly had enough), honestly all the stress and worry has all been worthwhile :-) xx

"I also found mum more protective in meeting the other dogs and 'watching' what baby's doing even now."

Aw, I hope very much the bond between my two remains as strong :-)

Just a little update, Mom has stopped taking baby out of the box, shes been very good now, shes started to eat better and baby has doubled in weight, Im one very proud nan right now x

And so you jolly well should do LOL. :) You have had a really tough few days Tilly, and l must admit, there were times when l thought that there may not be a good outcome. BUT GIRL, you seem to have done it. WELL DONE.

Love Josie XXX