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Topic Dog Boards / Behaviour / Coprophagia - does anything really work?
- By Alfieshmalfie Date 02.07.12 16:30 UTC
My lurcher (whippet x bedlington) Sprocket is now 1, over the last six/eight months we have been dealing with his poo eating and I just wondered if anyone had any other ideas.  He was a rescue, who arrived here on a foster at 7 weeks at a measly 1.5kg. He was fed Skinners Puppy which he seemed to get scurfy skin and had trouble keeping weight on and then Arden Grange Puppy food which he ate well and looked much better on.  Since he was about 8 months old he went onto Arden Grange Adult Lamb and Rice.  He is now about 21kg. I also have a labrador and a Cavvie who dont have this poo eating issue.  Sprocket has had periods of soft poo and doesnt tolerate changes in his diet very well as he gets an upset stomach. He also loses weight and condition quite quickly and eats rather a lot of grass.  His wind is room clearing and just plain putrid.

We have a large area of fenced off patio just outside the lounge french doors and that is the area in which the dogs can lay in the sunshine, play and we put the dogs paddling pool out there too.  Because the dogs also poo and wee out there, its kept very clean/washed down and I pick up the poo as its done.

However if for some reason I have missed a poo and its dried a bit then Sprocket will eat it, or if they are let out late at night and I dont pick up the poo before morning then he will snack on it as soon as he is let out in the morning, literally he will make a beeline for it before Ive even followed them out of the door. I went out on Saturday leaving my 18yr old in charge, I came back to find that he hadnt picked up the poo and Sprocket was eating them as they dried and with three dogs thats just ugh. (Thanks son).

Ive tried 'Leave' with a tasty reward, he leaves the poo and comes and gets the treat but doesnt seem to associate that the poo is not good, he just thinks 'ooh Ive got two snacks'.
Ive tried changing his diet, tried tinned Chappie for the blandness incase AG wasnt being digested enough. Ive tried Wainwrights Salmon and Potato in case it was the protein being used in the AG.  Ive tried a CaniKur probiotic from the vets incase he wasnt digesting it properly.  Sprocket has room clearing wind and also is eating lots of grass whenever he can get hold of it on runs off the lead, yet he is still seeming to need to eat poo.  He will eat rabbit poo in the field but doesnt eat other dogs poo.

Ive tried increasing his diet incase he was hungry, this just gave him runny poo, Ive tried spacing the same quantity out with no change either.  He was fed four times a day as a tiny pup, then three at 12 weeks and then 2 meals at 6months which is what he will stay on. He eats 200g of AG twice a day.

Ive even tried leaving some poo on the patio and sprinkling it with an anti chew spray or cayenne pepper but he still eats it.

The dogs are taken out twice a day including a run in the fields, they have endless kongs, nylabones and hollow bones to chew. I also do clicker training with them a couple of times a week and they come out and about with me at the weekends.  Sprocket also loves my Lab to bits and they spend a lot of time playing with each other.

In my heart of hearts this feels more like a nutrition issue rather than behavioural as he doesnt even seem to enjoy it, (like eating it with gritted teeth) and will only ever eat it when its dry.  He will even eat a whole meal and then go and look for poo on the patio.  He is wormed every other month with Drontal and doesnt have any other health problems.  I know that obviously removing the poo will remove the poo eating and I am able to do that 99.9% of the time, however if there is some nutritional deficit or something that Im missing then I want to change it so he wont feel he NEEDS to eat it.

What else can I try?
- By Stevensonsign [gb] Date 02.07.12 16:55 UTC
If the vet has ruled out medical causes (pancreas /intestinal orders )..his diet should adequately cover his nutritional needs.It sounds like  habit /behaviour issue  at home  rather than seeking out partially digested nutrients, which rabbit poo may contain.Some dogs that have had soiling problems /training to be clean problems do this . they see you tidy up , or you may have scolded by tone  even for an accident , so they clear it up . You could try raw green tripe  with the grass and nutrients already in it , see if his guts tune in to it and settle.Coprophagia is often said to be initiated by an enzyme deficiency. I'm sure that pineapple got to be a popular recommendation simply because it contains a proteolytic enzyme (bromelain). Bromelain breaks down proteins, and is often used in meat tenderizer (another frequently recommended coprophagia remedy) and is thought to act as a digestive aid.
- By ginjaninja [gb] Date 02.07.12 17:01 UTC
It does sound associated with a less than happy gut (even if it's now more of a habit).  You mention soft poos, easily upset digestion and wind.  I would try him on raw if I were you.  I had a picky princess who didn't enjoy her food - I think the cereal content didn't agree with her - so at 6 months I moved her onto raw & wouldn't go back.  It's fun to feed & results usually speak for themselves.

If you don't want to have to think too much you can start on the complete raw diets like Nature's Menu - sorry, not so familiar with these as I am with making it up as I go along.

Raw feeders tend to be a bit evangelical so I'll stop here . . .
- By Nova Date 02.07.12 17:09 UTC
It is something that happens naturally in the nest and I believe is not that unusual most will have a taste for it from time to time. Very distasteful to us and I think it is sometimes down to how attentive the breeder was, if the puppy pen is kept clean at all times the chances of the habit developing may well be less. You say your dog dislikes the experience that being so it would seem there is something that is driving him to do this - may be kept very short of food before you got him.

None of this is of any help and I don't know what to suggest, some dogs do seem to go in for recycling and there seems little you can do but remove the offending items before they do.
- By tadog [gb] Date 02.07.12 17:11 UTC
I have had experience with a rescue dog being Coprophragic. the ony think that worked was being vigialant and picking up. he had soft poos so long as he was recycling. if he wasnt his poos were good.
- By Lokis mum [gb] Date 02.07.12 18:41 UTC
When we had this problem (after a bitch had a litter, she continued "clearing up" after all the other dogs if she could) we fed them all some tinned pineapple with their food - for two or three weeks I seem to remember.   The habit stopped.
- By Beardy [gb] Date 02.07.12 18:50 UTC
Stanley (whippet) was terrible, he ate my GSD'S, but not his own. I taught him what 'leave it' meant, by opening & closing my hand with a treat in. If he went to take it out of my hand, I closed my hand & said 'leave it'. I taught him that if he left it (the poo), he got a really high value treat in it's place, ie cooked chicken breast, liver, cheese. I picked up immediately & gradually he did grow out of it, thanks goodness & even came to me for a treat as soon as my GSD deposited anything. He obviously prefered the high value treat, it didn't work with run of the mill treats, like dog biscuits, or dried kibble, as the reward! You will get there, keep at it!
- By Hethspaw [gb] Date 02.07.12 19:22 UTC
Mine had it, her own or pretty much any as far as I could tell. If I saw her I used 'Leave' but that only stops them when you see it, I never tried anything else to actualy 'stop' it cause I never heard of any way to 'stop' them other than in your presence.
- By Sawheaties [gb] Date 02.07.12 20:58 UTC
Another vote here for pineapple. Some habits can be hard to break :( Good Luck.
- By MsTemeraire Date 02.07.12 21:30 UTC
I've not tried this out on a coprophagic dog, but clicker training definitely helped when house-training my pup a few years ago.

He picked up that the clicker meant a tasty, high-value treat whenever he heard it AND it came from me, so when he was performing in the right place (garden, of course) he got a click and soon as he'd finished, he'd run to me to get his reward.

While this may not work for dogs who eat other dogs' poo, I wonder if that could work for those who eat their own?
- By Dill [gb] Date 09.07.12 11:30 UTC Edited 09.07.12 11:43 UTC
Firstly, are you SURE that your whippet/bedlington weighs 21kg ??   :eek:

Bedlington Terriers normally weigh between 8-10 kg and I would expect a well muscled whippet to weigh 10-12 kg at most, going on their similar size and build.     21kg would be decidedly porky for a Bedlington/Whippet, but if the dog is larger than 20 inches it may be a Greyhound/Bedlington and consequently weigh more?   With these dogs, it's easy to tell if they're over weight, you should be able to feel the ribs quite easily ;)

I found Arden Grange didn't suit my Bedlingtons at all, in fact they seem to do best on either a raw diet or a less rich food.  Burns is found to be good by some, mine were toast racks on it.  After trying loads of different foods, I have found CSJ Natural Champ to suit all of mine with solid poos and no smelly wind and lovely coats and condition.   Chappie kibble gave them poos that smelled soooo bad I could barely pick them up and the tins seemed little better :(

Regarding the poo eating, you could try feeding all your dogs one of these to make their poo less attractive
Pineapple
Grated Courgette
Garlic

If your lurcher has sloppy poos and smelly wind I would think his diet doesn't suit him, but it's trial and error to find one that does.   This can take a couple of weeks on a new food waiting for the gut to settle. 

Is he able to tolerate milk?   If he is, then a spoonful of Bio yoghurt may help his tum to settle.

I had a dog that was addicted to our cat poos (litter tray)  and NOTHING would stop him, we even tried tabasco sauce - he just seemed to like the added piquancy :eek:   With him, all we could do was be vigilant and get there first ;)

ETA - I just read that you give him 200g Arden Grange TWICE a DAY?   My Bedlingtons get about 125 grams of kibble a day which keeps them just right.   It sounds to me as if you are feeding far more than your lurcher needs if he's about 20 inches (to the shoulder) or less!
- By Nikita [gb] Date 10.07.12 13:43 UTC
A lot of whippets are big that I've seen - more pet-bred than show-bred but definitely whippets.  21kg does sound high but not impossible :-)

I do agree that 200g twice a day is probably too much though - My two youngest get that much, of Auatarky salmon and rice, and they are 28kg and 34kg and both very active.
- By Dill [gb] Date 10.07.12 20:19 UTC
Breed standard requires 20 inches maximum for a Whippet.  Agreed some pet bred ones are a little bigger, but not that much!

21kg would be 46lbs!!!  That's about the weight of a Siberian Husky!

A Bedlington Terrier weighs 22lbs maximum!  

Bedlington Whippet Lurchers seem to be around 19inches
Topic Dog Boards / Behaviour / Coprophagia - does anything really work?

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