Tilly, Do not get yourself upset. I remember well, how intimidated l used to be by Vets.....it is NOT easy to stand up to figures of authority when you are relatively new to breeding. In fact, l used to look upon my Vet, as being something akin to godlike LOL. It is only when you gain experience of your own dogs, that you become confident enough to challenge a Vets opinion.

Like Jean, I have had more than my fair share of C. Sections, due to the fact that l always feared for my bitches safety. I preferred to pay for an operation, than risk losing my bitch. That was always my one big fear.....to lose a bitch during whelping as l was the one who had instigated the mating.

I remember once, having a bitch who was in labour, when she started to lose a green discharge. I rushed to the Vets, only to be told that he was out on farm visits, and that it was nothing to worry about anyway. I knew differently, but nothing could be done until he returned. It must have been a couple of hours before he came back.....and he did perform a section immediately. Call me cynical if you like, but my girl had a much, much smaller litter - going by her size - than l expected. Of course, one can't prove anything, but it does make you wonder if you have not been told about any stillborn ones.

As l said Tilly, please do NOT upset yourself, Mum's safe, and you have a little baby girl.

Congratulations   Josie

Tilly i think you have guessed already you had quite a following on this and we've all been thinking about you and your girl / pup.

Thank goodness your girl has come through this and you have a baby girl to show for it. Hope baby thrives and you can relax a little now.

Relieved :)

Glad to hear she is safely through the surgery and has a pup to care for.

Were there more pups that didn't make it? Primary inertia[not going into labour] can be caused by single pups not triggering the hormone to get the labour started, if they had scanned/xrayed earlier all this worry could have been avoided and a planned c/section done.

Hope Mum and daughter get on well from now on.

Have you named her yet? June would be nice after the month.

Just a quick note because mum not taking to her yet, do I need to stimulate her too poop & wee

> > Call me cynical if you like, but my girl had a much, much smaller litter - going by her size - than l expected.

It is perfectly normal!  I have just had a friend with a bitch that was so huge, she expected a load of pups.  She had a small litter - and I did say I told you so.  I think Barbara had the same with one of her girls.  She was huge and had a small litter!

Of course, one can't prove anything, but it does make you wonder if you have not been told about any stillborn ones.

>
>

I have to be fair.  I am always asked if I want to see everything.  And I say yes.  It helps me to see a stillbirth, as I can reassure myself that, although dead, the size is normal, and there are no deformities.  I totally realise that this may well not suit everyone. 

Phew! I was willing a good outcome for you and your girlie.  Congratulations!

were all home now, been told to feed baby every 2 hours but nothing was said about stimulating to help get baby to poop/wee i read that you use cotton wool and a little luke warm water, is this what you would recommend, i've literally cried all day my head hurts, We've named her Willow and she weighs a tiny 2.4 oz. I hope & prey shes ok, shes a lively little thing, i've got her on a water bottle & fleece blanket, mum keeps whining and getting  out of the box, and help or advise at this stage would be greatly appreciated.

Mum will be disorientated from the GA.  it is vital that the pup nurses from Mum in the first 12 hours or so as that is when the Antibody giving milk is available to protect the puppy, and without colostrum few newborn animals survive.

I would put the puppy to the bitches milk-bar and latch it on while quietly soothing the Mum so she stays lying down.  Stay with them both.  Vital for pup to be with Mum so that a bond can form once she is fully free of the GA, and it will smell of her, and she of it.

A heat-pad is best for the pup to lie on.  Baby wipes can be used to wipe pups genitals and bottom to stimulate if they need to go.

Ref another post yes one of mine looked large and carried only 5 pups (one was stillborn).  This current litter the bitch looked huge early on and I worried about an over stretched uterus as I had never had one carry so low, and she had secondary inertia, but got going after a car ride, though sadly lost 4 (1 retained for two days) out of 11 puppies carried.

At that size I would tuck her in my bra so I could keep a very close eye on her till Roxy is able to care for her and the heat pad can go in there with her and the pup.

It is very important she gets the colostrum so either "milk" Roxy or put the pup on her but stay as she may not be round from the anaesthetic yet and harm her, it is her first litter and suddenly there is this strange thing trying to feed from her.

List of recipes for rearing pups, I so love this site[don't like the breed], so much info that can be applied to any breed.

http://www.lowchensaustralia.com/breeding/bottlefeeding2.htm

Yes warm water and cotton wool to replace the dams tongue, some will go straight away, others will take their time, urine and poo will be very obvious on the white cotton wool, I have eye make up remover pads in my dog trolley but[touch wood] only used then on some gunk from one of my girls nose.

You are going to be very busy 24/7 for the next few weeks.

> been told to feed baby every 2 hours

I hope they meant feed off Mum, she won't get milk if you give her formula, and pup will loose the correct suckling reflex, she must go on Mum first and only get supplement initially if she isn't gaining, until Mums milk comes in.  Even if you have to put her to the teat every half hour to start with.

Hi Jean,  I was usually pretty accurate with numbers.... with my own dogs and also visiting bitches. With second litters, they tended to look bigger, due l think, to their muscles being not quite so taut.

In this particular instance, although she was very big, the puppies were quite small....the size l would have expected from a large litter, which made me wonder if there had been a bit of a cover up, in order to protect the Nurse.

With my last Vet, l was not given the option which your Vet afforded you, l was just given a box with the puppies in. All of this, was many years ago now Jean, but l do still wonder sometimes....after all, it would not be difficult to do. Perhaps that's just me, being ultra cynical LOL.

baby pooped & peed which is good, there was quite abit too, mum doesn't have much milk, vet gave her two shots of oxytocin to try and bring it down, i will keep trying to put her to the teat cause i'd much rather not have to help, this is going to be a dificult few weeks but i will do whatever it takes x

You wont see  milk at all at this stage thats why its so important to get puppy latched on as well as getting the antibodies she needs she would also stimulate milk production.

Glad to hear pup and mum made it.  We had a singleton at Christmas and at first mum didn't knw what to do and would back away, i did what Brainless said to do and by morning mum was very maternal once baby had suckled.  There was no going back, in fact that was my easiest litter, mum did it all.  I'm sure as a singleton, it was down to lack of hormone until she latched on.

She's still here and thriving, in fact a right little madam :)

Frgot, i didn't see the milk but baby gained every day so left her to it.  Teats didn't look big at all

Have put baby on teat afew times but not sure anythings coming out shes suckling & im holding roxy and keeping her calm while puppy latches on, will she be getting anything out

If she latches on and sucks and doesn't give up then she is getting something.  Milk is produced by demand this is why the first three days the bitch suckles her pups almost continuously, so that the real milk comes in about day three.  Safter peup has rested a little back onto a teat.

My Lexi with her first litter never had developed memories, looked no more than a bitch with a bit of a phantom, yet her pups gained weight very well, and there were seven of them.  I could never get much in the way of milk out of a teat.  Weight gain, hydration and contentment are proof all is well.

the more she sucks the more the milk will come, just keep weighing willow and youll know if shes getting milk from mum ...ive been looking in and praying for you both... so happy to read about pup and mum :)x

i've put her back on a couple of times shes trying to suckle but i dont think shes getting anything out, is there anything i can do to help aid milk

Sometimes the milk takes a day or so to come in, but the more you let her suckle the quicker it'll come.

just keep trying pup and make sure mum drinks well , is pup making a slaping/sucking sound or or a noise and sucking ...is all mum teat in pups mouth ? or is pup thowing its head about while trying to feed ?? x

weigh her before and after she has suckled to see if there is a difference and if none supplement her with a small amount just to keep her hydrated not full or she won't suckle. Have you got vet/nutridrops, they give the energy required without filling the pup up.

She hasn't had a labour and the changes of hormones to trigger her milk so frequent tries is all you can do, it's going to be a long night.

Obviously with such a tiny mite you need to have very accurate digital scales, which weigh accurately to within a gram/half gram.

I'm used to 12+ ounce puppies, so mine can afford a small (less than 10% loss first day followed by regain teh second and gain from day three), with a tiny pup the margins are smaller.

if there is nothing there pups stop sucking pretty quickly so if pup continues to suck it is likely something is happening. I would put pup on a teat regularly and whenever she is awake as well. You can't beat Mum's milk and pups are more likely survive/thrive on Mums milk than hand reared which is why is should be a last resort

Just wanted to wish you well with Willow & her mum Tilly3812.  All the best x

Great News!!!! After spending until 3 am this morning trying to latch baby on to mum she finally accepted her and let her feed, she seems to have milk now but only in 2 teats. At  5 am mum started licking baby too, shs still not 100% but she's so much better & I'm glad I don't have to bottle feed.

That is excellent news Tilly

Now just keep making sure you put baby onto a teat every hour at least.  Don't be surprised if milk only seems to be in some glands, ti will be in the others too, but the hind ones show ti more.  Remember they don't need to bag up to have milk coming down from a particular teat.

In many of my litters the favourite teats seem to be the ones almost under the armpits, that seem to have nothing there, yet some pups will insist on using those in preference to any others.  Of course a singleton is spoilt for choice ;)

Have you been weighing the pup and how has that been, did she loose, stay the same or gain since birth?.

I do keep putting her on & after a while she does suckle,she still weighs 2.4oz which is same as yesterday... Mum keep just whining and I don't know why she's eaten a scrambled egg,had a drink & been outside x

the bitch is bound to be sore after her c-section. I had three and fairly hefty pain relief after mine! Hopefully that is all she is whining about. Keep an eye on her for signs of mastitis it is more common with one or two pups, larger litters drain all the milk meaning there is less likelihood of mastitis.

Mum will be in a lot of pain(and probably shock!).  Everytime the puppy suckles it causes the womb to contract, which considering it will be stiched, will be extrememly painful.  I have had first hand knowledge in that sort of pain and TBH, the day after my section, I had enough painkillers while feeding my baby that it could've knocked out a horse!
Make sure mum is eating and drinking well and frequently to bring in the milk.
All the best with Little Willow!
I had a singleton pup once and they are a lot of work.  You need to take the place of littermates to teach manners and rough play and bite inhabition.  The singleton we had ended up far too big as she had gorged all through her puppyhood.

Ok so now it seems mum has no milk, puppy is latching on but mum jumps up, her teats are quite red which is probably sore, I think I'm going to have to supplement inbetween trying to put her on mum

The milk will not have dried up in such a short space of time, I would try holding mum still if she will let you to allow pup to suckle...much rather try this than supplement- if you supplement her milk WILL dry up.

You need to rotate her through all the nipples so they don't get sore, it is tempting to use ones which obviously have milk in them but the milk will be in the others too.

Roxy may have connected the pup suckling with the extra pain in her wound area so you will need to calm her down, make a fuss of her with one hand at the head end, telling her how good she has been in a soft voice, keeping her lying on her side and put the pup close enough to latch on with the other hand.

My girls won't drink water post whelping so they get goats milk, boil some chicken and they get the liquid to drink when it has cooled down as well as the chicken to eat,plain yoghurt,vanilla icecream, you are getting extra calcium into her as well as soothing the mouth which can become sore from cleaning pups, with only one pup this may not happen.

I also found the pups used the armpit teats, Lois had 10 teats and 3 pups so didn't expect them to bother with those 2 hidden away.

"we will of course be  keeping her"

I have recently been through a traumatic time with my bitch, emergency c-section and only one surviving pup - the little girl I had always wanted, but not the circumstances I had hoped for. I couldn't possibly let her go now, we all have an incredible bond with her and her mum adores her, as do the rest of the gang.

I was frantic in the early weeks that there wasn't enough milk for her, but I persevered rather than supplemented and it all came good in the end. I resorted to spoon feeding my girl and syringing her fluids as I think she was so traumatised by everything that she just didn't want to eat or drink hardly :-( . I was worried (don't know if justifiably) that one pup didn't stimulate the milk to flow enough either and pup used to go from one teat to the next. She did consistently gain weight though and is a bonny picture of health now at 6 weeks. Mum will be in pain too which will be affecting her behaviour.

Awwww thanks for your advice I really appreciate it, she has had a couple of good feeds & and slept for 2 hours which is good, longer that the hour she's been going x

So glad you got a live puppy out of it, I had a singleton little girl 2 years back by c-section, luckily it was mum's 2nd litter so even though she was groggy from the op she accepted her. I'm sure your girl will get the hang of it now. :-)

With such a tiny puppy you may be better weighing in metric (grams) as for a 2.ounce puppy weight gain would only initially be about 10% at most, which is only 0.2 - 0.25  of an ounce, does your scale go down that low in ounces?.

Anyway as she hasn't lost, check again in 12 hours for her starting to gain now the milk is coming in.  You will need to really work on making sure she feeds often for those first three days, then things should start going more easily.

Tilly3812 >Very Excited, just been for a scan & Roxy has at least 2 puppies, saw there tiny heartbeats also which is fab

JeanSW > Of course, one can't prove anything, but it does make you wonder if you have not been told about any stillborn ones.

Tilly, did you get an answer from the vet about what happened with the other puppy?  Glad Willow is picking up now and hope it all goes well :)

>Like Jean, I have had more than my fair share of C. Sections, due to the fact that l always feared for my bitches safety. I preferred to pay for an operation, than risk losing my bitch. That was always my one big fear.....to lose a bitch during whelping as l was the one who had instigated the mating.<br />

100% with you on this one.  If a bitch does have difficulty, it is difficult not to remind yourself who was responsible for her condition!

That's great news :-) Hope all continues to go well and prepare yourself for falling in love with a pup like you never have before, with her being a singleton ;-)  If you need any advice any step of the way don't hesitate to ask - obviously with my pup being only 6 weeks it is all very fresh in my mind (not that you ever forget!) x

Jean sw i do feel terrible about ever getting her mated & i think it'll put me off for life, Luckily There both doing well, i've just blessed i guess

cavlover Aww i bet your little pup is adorable i can't wait for willow to be 6 weeks so i can play with her, Shes doing good, mum is starting to be a proper mummy and looking after her now, im glad i persevered rather than just going with the formula, I've already fallen in love with her its all most like shes my baby, hehe xx

Do you know Tilly, I feel that bonded to my little one that it's as if I gave birth to her myself, so I totally understand what you are saying :-)
She is beautiful, just what I wanted from her Mum :-)  We tragically lost her two brothers, so it has been such a bad time, this little lady has made all the stress and heartache seem worthwhile. The bond Mums have with a singleton is very special too - never had one before, but I can see a big difference, it is lovely to see them play together so much, at a time when normally Mum is starting to get fed up of them! So glad to hear all is going well for your little one and her Mum xx

Does anyone have any idea why, mum keeps digging (as though shes nesting) and dragging the blankets from under the puppy, I dont get what shes trying to do, she keeps whining alot too.

It's a reaction to pain, may go on for most of the week..

She is in a lot of pain.  Did you read the book of the bitch?

Is she in a denlike environment?  Why is she on blankets?  Do you have vetbed and a heatpad?

>Do you have vetbed and a heatpad?

If she's in a covered den there's no need for a heatpad ...

I personally still use them for toys.  Always have.