Anyone familiar with an overshot jaw in a 4 month old puppy? I have just been offered a toy/small breed with an overshot jaw with 1/2" gap which I think is quite considerable. The breeder needs to find him a new home asap and as I don't breed or show, only looking for a companion pet, what is the chances that this will improve(or not) by the time he is an adult?

Looks wise, I am not a bit bothered but am worried regarding the cost of fixing this problem should it need to be fixed as insurance won't obviously touch it being a pre-existing. Being retired and on a small pension I could not find hundreds should this little lad run into trouble.

Would welcome advise by experienced posters. Thanks

The lower jaw is the last thing to finish growing so it may come forward a but I think 1/2" is a heck of a way to go so I would be doubtful if its imroves to any great extent

It depends very much on the breed, dachsie muzzles don't stop growing till they are 7 or 8 months old, other breeds with shorter muzzles may finish growing sooner.

My parents first dachsie had an overshot jaw, we didn't notice till the vet drew our attention to it, we think he had been returned as he was the only one who had been fully vacinated at 5 months old[ he only had one testicle, the other one never formed], he was toothless by the time he died at 13yrs old as the poor bite causes early decay, some fell out others were removed.

There weren't kibbles back then so he was fed tinned with mixer, maybe a completely dry diet would have given his teeth a better work out and prevented the decay we will never know.

If its a Cavalier, highly unlikely to improve but causes no problems what so ever..... a half inch gap is refered to as a 'parrot mouth'.

Under shot jaws are more obvious when looking at the dog as the bottom front teeth are visable, over shot are not visable unless someone actually looked at the mouth.

An overshot jaw can make the dog look 'beaky' but tends not to cause any problems at all.

> Under shot jaws are more obvious when looking at the dog as the bottom front teeth are visable

Depends on the breed. Buster (Mastiff) has no teeth visable atall, it's only if you pull his lips up, you can see he is undershot by about half an inch. A fleshy mush will hide the teeth :)

He was slightly overshot as a pup, his lower jaw continued to grow and he gradually became undershot more each year, he's now nearly 5 years old and it looks like it's finally decided to stop growing!

A 'half inch gap' on a small toy breed would be rather obvious.

Tooolz, it is very obvious. I have an adult with a perfectly normal bite and they look completely different. The only advantage as I can see which disguises it somewhat is that this breed have very long and thickish coats and he has quite a lot of hair around the muzzle. It is not normal in this breed to have under or overshot jaws.

My main concern is not his looks but the impact upon his health and wellbeing. I don't want him to be in pain have trouble eating or get infections, neither can I afford to pay for surgery to correct this. I do take out insurance and know that I can at least manage the excess but that is all. Not sure which way to go at this point as otherwise he is a lovely natured little chap.

Has he been returned to breeder due to this fault?

My home bred pups have caused me to worry at times, the bitch who went to stay with her dams breeder went haywire at about 5 months old, 2 months after leaving me but then came back in line by the time she was 8 months old, having a breed with a long muzzle means there is alot of growing to do, more time for things to go wrong, at birth they look like several breeds pups, even at 12 weeks they could pass as cocker spaniels although there long body and short legs would probably make you wonder.

> My main concern is not his looks but the impact upon his health and wellbeing.

I have produced two parrot mouths in my time as a breeder and in both cases they have led an entirely trouble free life.
No problems with eating, picking things up or playing. One is nearly 6 years old now and I keep having to remind the owner that he has this incorrect mouth and needs to check him regularily for problems....she says she never notices it and therefore forgets.

Little else I can tell you other than to bear in mind surgery to correct a malaligned jaw would be very expensive.... and that is even if the surgery is an avaiable option. The dog may never need it, and in my experience they havent, but a vet may advise differently.

you might find he needs his teeth cleaning a bit more than a dog with a straight jaw.  But then if you get him used to you doing it as a puppy maybe you won't need it doing at the vets too much

Thanks for all the advice. Tooolz, he has as far as I am aware never left the breeder. I have not yet been to see this puppy as he is some 8 hours around trip. I have a picture and a description of the anomaly - 1/2" gap. The breeders vet states (according to the breeder) that the most that would be needed is teeth to be pulled as and when, but it is very much a guessing game. The breeder has said that if that needed to be done then to take the puppy back and he would arrange for it to be done with his vet and we can share the cost. Not sure how much that would be???

I'm not sure how much natural correction would close this gap for at 4 months old he is almost full grown. Should not be more that 6 kilos or so at adult. Having no experience of this and looking at my full grown girl who is 6 kilos I do wonder if it is possible for such a gap to improve at all. Although small/toy breeds they don't have a flat face but a longish muzzle in proportion.

With regard to feeding I am not sure how this affects them? I feed raw - 1/2 chicken wings and half mince and veg with larger raw bones for chewing on. Not sure how this little lad would cope. But there again, I would assume with kibble if teeth dont aligne correctly it would be difficult to chomp on kibble.

Still don't know which way to go as I know I could give this little lad a good home but could not cope with vets bills other than excess.

Dogs chew/grind food with their back teeth, there front ones pick the food up and can bite you so the diet you already use should be fine.

Rusty I mentioned earlier he was about 10yrs old before tooth decay became a major problem and he went on for another 3 yrs without any teeth, my Dad would joke he won't be able to bite an intruder but could give them a nasty suck, once his gums had healed over they were really hard, he went back to tinned food and mixer that had been soaked in water, now adays we would be able to get small bite mixer, dental chews, Plaque Off to add to his food, there are gels you just need to rub over the teeth as well as doggie toothpaste.

I wouldn't put a dog through surgery unless it was life saving or no other option, I have seen humans post surgery for correcting their bite and they were in alot of pain and it didn't always produce the desired effect.

The breeder is being very generous offering to pay half towards any dental care he may need in the future, not many would make such a long term promise

Is there a time limit on you making a decision?

>Dogs chew/grind food with their back teeth,

Actually they cut/slice their food with their back teeth; they can't chew and grind it as we can because a) their molars aren't flat at the top and b) they can't move their jaws from side to side, only up and down.

Thanks for correcting my understanding of the canine dental anatomy and its workings.

Rhodach, Not any time limit unless someone else offers to give him a home.

I have decided to go over this weekend to see the little lad for myself, then I will know better how I feel about it. If it feels right then I will take the plunge and love him for what he is, and hope for his sake that he does not need any dental work and watch his mouth very carefully. Getting abit paranoid about my little girls teeth. She thinks I am crazy looking at her beautiful teeth and bite every couple hours.

I don't have much luck usually at anything, and amongst other things, it has been 'domestically desperate' for a few months, just managing to hold onto my home. Hubby of 40 years decided that the fields 'were fresher' on the other side of the road which is why money is rather tight as my finances halved overnight not to say that I came out of hospital to find hubby gone along with the furniture (he kindly left me a bed and a chair). Dogs are definitely more loyal!!!!!

So sorry your hubby has left you in such a mess, been there myself, the police caught mine as he attempted to remove stuff and told him he could only take work related items and watched him like a hawk and then got a locksnith to come round and change the locks for me.

Keep us posted on what you decide

Boo, taking everything into account I would suggest you dont take this puppy.
I also advise not just going for a visit, you know what will happen :-)

Given the distance and the financial constraints I would say dont do it.

The two cases Ive had went to local friends and I was here to share the worry and expence if needed.

>Still don't know which way to go

TBH I feel you should give this one a miss. You are obviously unsure to the point of asking on a forum like this which makes it sound as if you have significant misgivings. As you've had such a lot to cope with recently, you could probably do without the extra worry. Even if this pup proves to be absolutely fine with just a cosmetic fault, I think you would still be wondering.

If he's never left the breeder then it sounds as if he will be able to hang on until a suitable home comes along. Hopefully the right pup for you will come along soon.

>> Still don't know which way to go as I know I could give this little lad a good home but could not cope with vets bills other than excess.

May I ask, why this particular puppy?
Is it question of bloodlines (you may have had a related one before).
Is it just the fact that a new puppy in your present situation would be a positive step for the future? (I am not going to knock that, as I have seen it work well in my own family; sometimes a dog can do what other humans can't in terms of solace and motivation).

I suppose I am asking: why this particular dog.

As to the jaw issues you have had great advice here and the breeder is willing to help out if needed. That's an enormous plus in my book (just get it in writing!).

How will you feel if you don't take this pup?
Will it be a feeling you have missed out, or will you be a little bit relieved you won't have the bite issue?

In the big picture, a misaligned jaw is the not the end of the world, especially if the breeder is happy to work with that and give future support.

[Toss the coin, and think to yourself, You could buy a pup elsewhere with no apparent issues, and if something cropped up the breeder might dump you in the dark and deny all responsibility]

I hope you will sleep on this... It does seem to me the breeder cares, which is a big plus point in this day & age of pups mass bred for the fun of it with no comeback. A rescue can be more of a gamble, which may not suit you right now.

Think most of all, as you are having a difficult time - be sure another dog is what is what you want, right now - regardless of where it comes from. If not, then waiting a few months for the Right dog is probably the right thing

The sensible thing would be to not take the pup but he will be a present to yourself. A reason to smile,someone else that loves you for you. Let's hope your husband gets Vd (sorry) and listen to you heart.

Louise DDB - shame on you! VD - is that all! ha ha ha, stop cheering me up, forgotten how to laugh but it is coming back to me now.

did u go and look? and did u have him? is this breed a bichon? xx

Hi White Lilly, I did go and look at him and took my little girl with me. There were three puppies, now 5 months old and the lad with the overshot jaw made a beeline for my little girl and she to him and she ignored the other pups - they totally gelled. His mouth was really bad, however, so I made the decision not to take him as I couldn't see him improving in any great degree. Wether my decision was right or not I will never know. I do know however, had he not had the condition and I was choosing from the three pups, I would have chosen him. It appears that he may have been unfortunate in one respect but has been blessed with a wonderful personality. It shone out of him. Whoever is able to take him and deal with the possible expense that his jaw may bring is going to get a wonderful little boy. He is not a bichon but a coton. When looking at his 5 gen pedigree papers I could see that the sire has sired at least one other litter that I have seen (and is the sire of a couple other litters for sale at the moment, two of them pure and one cross), and I didn't like what I saw in that litter. The owner of the puppy said that he had never used that sire before and it is the first time that he has ever, to his knowledge, bred a puppy with over/under shot jaw. I have however been to see a beautiful litter from a different bloodline and Millie will be joining Boo two weeks today.

Thanks for the update.

What is a "coton"

probably a "coton du tulear"

hi boo16 only just seen this sorry....cotons are a beautiful breed :) and all the best with your new one :) xx