My new puppy is now 11 weeks (!) and having learned the hard way with her uncle, who didn't do any ringcraft before he was 10 months old, I would like to start this baby off the right way--gently, steadily into work. This is a medium gundog breed, usually stacked. She won't be going into a show until early October but I had considered SW Gundog...

Can I ask any of you knowledgeable people out there for your advice on baiting, stacking, getting her to move well, whether you'd recommend a half check rather than slip lead at her age--oh, and the answer to the 100 or so other questions I haven't yet mentioned :-). Any anecdotes about what to avoid would be appreciated as well!

> oh, and the answer to the 100 or so other questions I haven't yet mentioned :-).

No pressure there then JAY15.  :-)  :-)  :-)

With a new pup I do go to ringcraft but I don't really make them do alot, just tend to make it a nice social evening out, saying hello to every dog & person :)

I do set them up & move them but I don't worry if they fart about, just as long as it's fun, I much prefer a happy silly puppy than a boring robot dog! lol

They soon pick it up

:-D :-D :-D

She is a lovely puppy but I get the feeling that if I fail to get her through her JW I will be in the dog house with few people...:-)

I'm taking her to ringcraft tomorrow night as a social thing and starting her next week with a proper lesson

Such fun, my two were 6 mths yesterday, I kept a boy and a girl. (Didn't intend to keep the boy but he was too nice to let go) We have their fist show on Thursday at Windsor. Like Gemma, we do ringcraft but try and make it more social. They move lovely but we are yet to stand still LOL. Thursday should be fun.

Oh, I'll be reading this thread with interest and would also love to hear everyone's advice/anecdotes. My pup will be coming home at 4 months and I plan to take him to ringcraft two weeks later as a social night out. It's quite a long class so I will bring a crate and also hope to get him used to if even for a tiny moment the art of waiting around in the crate at shows...

One thing I have learned is that at ringcraft it pays to hand the lead over to a stranger (To the pup) and pop out to the loo or just nip out of sight for a few seconds, I do it from day one and  every time I go it's great to have a dog at a show that you can leave with someone while you go for a cuppa or a toilet break at a show or just to hold one dog while you are in the ring with another, as someone who goes to shows alone most of the time it is a godsend to have a settled dog who will happily stay with someone else.
Aileen

Mine is a stacked gundog breed too.  With my first dog I rather thought it was going to be as easy as the breeder made it look - I didn't really get to grips with him at all and when the breeder visited at 5 months old she must have wondered what on earth I'd be letting him do instead of standing.  Oops :)  I soon got it sorted but wished I'd tackled things a bit earlier...

Next time around I left most lead work, movement, to ringcraft classes but I stacked him, little and often, at home - and from day 1.  Sometimes in a formal way with his show lead, and other times just as he was passing.  I would also just hold his head and or tail sometimes too. 

As we approached his first show I did do some additional movement practise at home but only really to establish the best speed for us both and develop smoother cornering.  

A mirror is handy for checking positions, I think it makes sense to start them off in a show lead (mine know the difference between every lead!), I don't bait cos it makes mine slobber and watch my hands all the time (not ideal when stacking), I reward after each 'hold and release' in the early days then decrease to trophy rewards at the end of each session.  I know someone who recommends clicker training to mark good positions and movement and I think there is a book about it...

One thing I have learned is that at ringcraft it pays to hand the lead over to a stranger

Funny you should mention it, Merlot :-). I always take her uncle Bean and was a bit flummoxed as to what to do with them both. Luckily there was a kind soul who held onto her while I got Bean stacked and moved. She never batted an eyelid. She loved all the new dogs and people, wasn't fazed at all by horses in the field, aircraft overhead, etc. She marched round the field doing her triangle and full circle to the end of the line as though she'd done it plenty of times before (this was her first time out on a lead) and even managed to free stack for a split second :-).

I guess I'll never know what Bean might have been like had I started him at this age, instead of the best part of a year old, but it's been very interesting watching her tonight--especially now, completely crashed out after her work and a late dinner. 

I'm not nearly experienced enough but I found with my bitch pup that free stacking and treating every step she took with a light slip lead worked really well. I'd say 'Let's go!' and if she took a step, she'd get a treat. Built that up and she went from plonking her bum down without moving to trotting happily around. Now she pulls me around the ring!
I taught free stack commands with my hand by my side; one hand signal for 'Stop and hold it there.' and another for 'One more step towards me'. She caught on so quickly and now I never have to touch her in the ring because she free stacks on command or walks into it on command. However, this does mean she isn't used to me stacking her on the table, and this isa real weak point for us.

Hope that helps, I'm very new to it but I found the above helped lots. xx

>she free stacks on command

I don't mean to be picky, but I assume you mean free stand? 'Stacking' is where the dog is positioned by the handler ... you seem to be mixing the terminology a little. ;-) Easily done when it's all new to you :-)

you mean free stand? 'Stacking' is where the dog is positioned by the handler

LOL Jeangenie, I do--this is what comes of scribbling in a hurry :-). This breed is mostly stacked, although there are a few who free stand.

LOL my mistake, I had heard so many other people call it free-stacking I thought that was what it was called! I'll say stand now!

Im going to be controversial here.
I dont take my dogs to any formal ringcraft and do all their training in casual and everyday walking situations.

On the lead I stop and ask for the behaviour I have trained for as little pups...'watch'...'Whaaaaz this?" The learn very quickly to strike the pose.
Out in public I always carry small cocktail sausages and they know I have them.
Without warning I see an opportunity to ask for...and get eye contact...no matter what is happening around them.
By age 14 weeks I expect them to stop - position themselves - look up -wag...just for seconds then treat.
I always end the behaviour with a 'Go on' and ignore while pup strides on.
I never give to a needy,begging pup who wont go on and stops for food all the time. Id release and play if that was happening.

I use the '300 peck method'  ( from studies on pigeons but a method Ive used for 30 years, long before it was named :-) ) of sustaining a prolonged stack ie I work up from 2 seconds with treat - release with gusto....to 4 seconds...to 8 seconds...NEVER testing until the pup breaks...always trying to anticipate the optimum break off point.

I use the vocal count down as well.....'Whaaaaz this?...one-two-three...... Yeah!!!!"... break off treat jump about and play.
By the time they enter the showring at 6 months they can stand in an alert free stand for a considerable time but always alert and anticipating.... a good look!! The best thing is the pup enjoys it :-)
Ringcraft is useful for the handler to learn how to handle, position and move. They then can teach the pup.

In between times I encourage anyone and everyone to handle the pup in and out of show pose.

Works very well for me :-)

Thanks tooolz, that's really interesting--I will try this, it sounds very effective. I do something similar with recall (always make sure the dogs know what treat I have in my pocket before they go off lead) and then whistle them back at intervals, then treat. Two of them have combined this with a recall and sit for treat (self taught), the other was brought up never to sit and only learned it once he came to me, but show habits die hard with Jack :-)