I have tried the search engine no past post coming up. i just want to find out as much as i can re this. i have two dogs with it. one pretty bad. but am loath to have tie back due to the risks. anyone want to input?

have only seen it done once ..then recovery depended on owner using no collar , wet food was recommended , small amounts of water in a raised bowl,  and absolutely no risk of overheating as even with one side tie back , breathing can be compromised.

Is this a breed specific problem?

Don't have an awful lot of info except that two close friends have had/have dogs with it -one a Golden, the other a Malinois. The Golden lived to 9 I seem to remember, his main problem was choking easily if fed too large quantities. The Malinois is still alive aged 12. Neither had the surgery.

Can be . the one I saw was a Great dane.

I is not breed specific with my breed, i am just not having a good year!

I know about no collar, wet food keeping cool trying to keep calm ect. Steroids help. i do not really want to go down the surgery route unless ab ness.  the risks are not good, from what i have read/heard/. i appreciate feedback from those that have experienced PL with and without surgery.

I have known a few people have this problem in our breed.And being that we work our breed in the water the tie back is not a good option.

One of the owners dealt with it as best they could with small wet meals,small amounts of water - wet treats like liver cake etc , walking at the right times - avoiding damp conditions that type of thing

I have experience of having a dog with LP.

My Irish Setter had this all his life till at the age of 11 1/2 he got to crisis point. For most of his life his breathing during exercise was noisy and he had a cough, but it didn't compomise his exercise tollerance. Then when he reached 11 1/2 he suddenly deteriorated and couldn't walk on lead for 15 minutes without being practically unable to breathe and near collapse. He was otherwise a very fit dog, so the choices were, have the tie back surgery or have him put to sleep...........obviously we opted for the surgery, despite the risks. He was treated by a Vet that was experieced in this surgery and he made a full and wonderful recovery. There were no complications and he had a normal life for a further 2 years till I lost him at 13 1/2.

I'd do the surgery again in a heartbeat. Bailey's life was transformed.

The operation cost £1,200. back in 2007. I hope this helps.

PS Piratebear, I found dry conditions much worse for Bailey than wet, he was definately better in the rain.

Just found the link to my question on this, all those years ago.

http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/board/topic/98584.html

Dawn R.

Thanks Dawn. It is the thought of getting fluid in the lungs ect that is worrying me. cost doesnt come into it.  i am doing everything i can at the moment. steroids do help, we tried to reduce these, but had to upt again. the hunger doesnt help as this causes excitment that then brings on breathless attack. it is geting the meal timing right at the moment. dont know what to do....

i have just had a look at your older link. i was getting quite enthusiastic till i reached Peters log. if i were to have it done it would be the vet school that we would go to. even that would be a worry as it would bring on her breathless attack.....

The thing is, Peter's bitch didn't have tieback surgery. His vet chose to admit her for investigations and she died during these. At least that's the way I inerpret the story.

I know only too well how worried we get when our dogs are having health problems and perhaps you are not in the position yet, of having your hand forced by circumstances. I remember I was prepared to accept a certain level of symptoms, but I got to the point where I felt I had no choice but to go ahead with the operation. Bailey had gone from being a happy active dog to becoming very debilitated and his life was miserable and uncomfortable. He got a new lease of life and I'm thankful for the following two years.

Dawn R.

Hi - I have known 2 dogs have the surgery - one at the vet college in Hertfordshire and one in vet college at Edinburgh - both dogs were around 11-12 years old and both did fantastically well - one was a vizsla and other a golden retriever . Both belonged to friends who were very pleased with the outcome.

thanks to the prev two posts. Sadly i have got to the stage where i feel surgery is the ony option.  my next worry is the actual going to the vet school will bring on a v bad attack.  i will speak to my own vet on monday. i know he was of the opinion before that we just use the steroids, but he has not seen her at her worse.. and we all know our own dogs. thanks for clarifying the 'peter' thing nursey.

You're welcome. I'll be thinking of you in the next few weeks and I wish you all the best.

I'd be interested in hearing how things go. Please let me know.

Regards, Dawn R.

My welsh springer Scarlet had LP and had a tie back operation in 2009. It was the best think that I ever did for her. There are some groups via Yahoo that can help with lots of info. One is called caninelaryngealparalysis. Scarlet had a tie back operation, a bi lateral tie back at a specialist centre in Surrey. There was a period of recovery and from then she had a renewed zest for life. We did walks that I did not think we would ever do again. We had to make some changes. She was no longer able to eat dry food due to the risk of aspiration. So we changed her diet and raised the bowls for eating, she never suffered aspiration pneumonia and lived for another 3 years. We had to change to a harness, no more collars and it is best that they do not bark too much. I can tell you much more if you wish to contact me. I know of no medication that helps the condition. Try not to worry, in the right hands with an experienced surgeon there is a very good success rate.

Thanks suerogers. I am certainly feeling more positive that a few days ago.  the steroids have helped greatly. my concern is ob the weight. i now feed five time a day. same amount ouf meat, only supplimented by veg. due to the beg having a high water content my girl doesnt drink much. so she must be getting the extra fluid intake you would have expected through being on the steroids from the veg.  she does get 'happy' when it is feeding time and this brings on a breathless attack.  she ob needs the food due to the steroids. i dont know how we will cope if she has to be deprived for the four hour drive to vet hospital. cant take her of the steroids as we have tried reducing and she gets significantly worse.  

As a footnote. i asked for her to be put on the steroids as last year she was being treated by the vet school for inflamation of a nerve root in her shoulder. she was on 60g steroids per day, (such a high dose that she actually LOST weight.) they did say then that her LP would benifit from this .....it completly disapeared!  this lasted good for about three months after she came off the steroids.

Where abouts in the country are you ? There might be a
good specialist closer than the vet school ?

My Weimaraner bitch had LP and it was both sides of the larynx.  She was 13 when she had the op last year.  1 side tied back and a small incision under her ear, thats all it was.

In herself she recovered well, she had to have longer term anti-bios as the swelling inside took longer to go down but she was fine after.

i raised her food bowl and I was lucky that she was never a guzzler when it comes to eating food, she soon realised that if she ate something to quick she would make herself sick.  She slowed right down and I never had a problem.

I would also too not think twice about having it done again as long as the dog was fit enough to get through the operation. 

My own vet did our op and she went in at 10.30am and I had her home by 1pm as she was playing up to come home :)

If the op needs doing then I'm sure your dog will cope.  The trouble is that they can asphyxiate if the problem is an extreme case, thats what I was worried about, especially if I wasn't at home.  That outweighed the worry of the apsiration pneumonia for me TBH.

Red dog, I am in scotland.

It seems to me, from what you say, that as hard as it your dogs needs this operation. I belong to a forum group many 'friends' are in the US and they drive for many hours to a specialist for this surgery. I think the choice of surgeon is important. Not all 'GP' vets have the experience. It is important to do your homework. Keeping you dog cool can help the breathing and maybe a cooling vest will be worth considering.

You make an interesting comment about nerve problems in the shoulder which may be related to the LP. Rear limb weakness is thought to be related to LP!

Post surgery we fed Scarlet Naturediet, which we made into meatballs with a melon baller. The high fluid content reduced her need to drink and so it is likely that is what you are seeing.

Find the 'group' on Yahoo. There are lots of people there who can give you ideas and support. I will find the link and post you again.

This is the link:

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/caninelaryngealparalysis/?prop=eupdate

Please take a look. Lots of help, advice and support.

I absolutely agree that choice of surgeon is vital - I also would not have this type of surgery done by a GP vet ( though I know some can do this type of surgery and can be very good)
I was just thinking that it may be worth doing some research-
Maybe asking on the yahoo group ? To see if there are any
recommended specialists nearer to you - we are way down
South so I'm afraid no local knowledge - you may already have
done this in which case this will be of no help.
Hope you get everything sorted for your girl as soon as possible, especially
after all you both went through last year x

@ suerogers
My girl will only have her surgery with a experienced veterinary surgeon. We will prob have to travel 4hrs to get to the vet school if they are able to do the quickest.  My GP is v good but would not do such a specialist procedure.  We are fortunate to live in a cool house and have fans on all the time, have stone floors ect. I have also been using a 'thundershirt' to help with anxiety.

You make an interesting comment about nerve problems in the shoulder which may be related to the LP. Rear limb weakness is thought to be related to LP! interesting! i will google this.

thanks for link.

I had an eleven year old Flattie operated on at the Dick Vet Edinburgh and he never had any problems afterwards. I had to start feeding him wet and he had a harness instead of a collar but that was all that changed.
The only thing affected was his bark, it turned into a pathetic sounding thing but that was all.

thanks. i now have an appointment at the  hospital on wednesday with a view to surgery on Thursday.  I did ask my own vet if it was ok to be on the steroids for surgery...he said yes....However i have just phoned the hospital and they think not. i explained that i have a 3 hr x 2 drive and would be better to know rather than go all the way through with her to bring her back home. now i am waiting on the specialist ringing me back.  anyone any thoughts?

flattiemum, was your dog on steroids?

spoke to the specialist. he would have prefered my girl not to be on steroids. but as we would need time to reduce her off them he feels that we should go ahead asap. so we are booked in for tomorrow am. i will stay around and they want me to bring her home tomorrow rather than she be stressed in the kennel.

My very best wishes to you all. If I can help with post op advice please let me know. The group on the link that I sent to you has lost of help and advice.

I'll be thinking of you tomorrow, very best wishes and all the luck in the world. Do let us know how it goes. x

Dawn R

thank you both. i am nervous at having her back with me so soon after op, but pleased as she would not be relaxed and that would not be good for her. just want it to be next week.  Can you believe my daughter gets married in less than two weeks and i cant even think of that at the moment. my girls are allgoing with me and staying in a lodge within the hotel grounds, so we will have a week and a half to get used to the new routine beforhand.

Dawn, do they like humans to be off steroids also before ops? i believe it compromises the imune system?

I really hope everything goes as well as possible tomorrow and will be thinking of you both .

I know that you will get lots of good advice post op. It is however very important that your dog is kept very calm and quiet post op. I seem to recall that for at least two week all trips to the garden for wee's were on a harness and the build up to full strength took a fair bit of time. I say this only to help you plan all the celebrations you have in place. It is very important that no barking is encouraged during the recovery period. Can anyone stay with your dog at home instead. I really am not trying to worry you, I know you are doing enough of that yourself. Please make sure you ask all the questions at the vets.

suerogers, thanks. I am not too worried re wedding. the lodge we are staying at is within the hotel grounds with only myself and my dogs staying there, everyone wil respect my request to keep clear. i am within walking distance to check every hour.  Hattie will be better there beside me rather than home and someone coming into her. she would get excited at that.  toilet trips on harness will be fine. Hattie had this for a couple of months when she was recovering from cruciate ligament surgery. fortunatly we live a quiet, sedate life. getting ready now to go!

Sorry just seen your post, no Brady wasn't on any meds, in fact he was as fit as a flea when this struck him.
Hope all goes well, it seems daunting keeping him calm post op but the time goes quick.

Hope everything was ok today for you and Hattie .

In haste.

All went well yesterday. slight hiccup during surgery when the cartlidge split when suturing, so only one stich in rather than the prefered two. but it is looking good. Allowed to bring home as to have kept her would have just stressed Hattie and risk to throat . Had v restless night, but then i remembered that Hattie does have a low threshold of pain. when she had a splenectomy a couple of years back she cried like a baby the whole night, but i believe for this op legs are well 'splayed' so would have been painful. anyway Hattie is on her antbiotics and painkillers. eating is good. just rolling food into a ball and handfeeding. I find the drinking a bit scary though. i ob worried re cscratching but cant put collar on her due to would area, so just need to be v vidgelant. 

When we arrived at the vet hospital Hattie was ob stressed and first thing they did was sedate and put on oxygen.. Hopefully the way ahead is bright.  thanks to everyone for support. will keep posting re progress.

That all sound good. I changed Scarlets food to naturediet and used a melon baller! If you are not already doing so raise both feeding and drinking bowls so that the angle is better for the throat. I would be interested to know if you have seen an immediate improvement? Scarlets throat was 90% paralysed, the night after we got her home she was breathing so well and so easily we realised what a struggle it had been for her before.

Keep us posted..

Re the scratching, try putting an old tee shirt on her, baggy necked off couse and that hinders them getting their back legs right up for a good scratch. Doesn't beat vigilence though but it helps.

Hi, yep becuase of their size all of my girls eat & drink from raised stations. the food i use is similar consistancy to N/D, melon baller great idea though.
Yes i have seen immediate results. due to the severity that Hattie was at the vet told me we would see improved breathing straight away. previously she was wheezing & gasping for breath and when she took a bad turn could not move. so pleased we managed to get immediate appointement.

have cut up one of my oder cashemere jumpers to make a 'snood'....when the vet rang this am to see how Hattie was he suggested this, surprised a man knew what it was. works. but i am with her all the time just now so she isnt getting the opportunity to.

I'm over the moon for you, so glad things went well.  Maybe you'll soon be able to relax, the worst is over.

All the best,
Dawn R.

Really pleased to hear all went well and that she is already showing signs of improvement .

Hi

So glad I've come across this website. My 9 year old lab had a tieback done on Monday and is finally coming home tomorrow. He'd had breathing problems for about the last 2 months and the first vet I saw said it was arthiritis!  Anyway I finally saw another vet and after some tests they confired LP and advised surgery ASAP. Harvey (my lab) had only been able to walk about 5 mins and then he was exhausted. After a very stressful week he is now doing great and we can't wait to have him home tomorrow. The surgery had a few problems as they couldn't find his voice box and now think he was born with a deformed one. Also his throat was badly swollen and inflamed and he only had a 2 mm space to breathe so would have probably lost him any day! 

I'm still slightly concerned about aspiration pneumonia and notice a couple of you talking about wet food. Harvey is on dry food and when I mentioned this to the surgeon he has just to carry on with the dry food??  Just wanted to get people's thoughts??

Thanks

Haroll Hi,

Re wet food, yes i have had my bitch on wet food for a while now as this is easier for her to eat. Now she has had the tie back i am to keep her on. she is on Chappie as it it easier for me to rol into little meatball size balls and hand feed her.  the Veterinary surgeon that did op said it is better to hand feed for a few weeks as her head wil be up and the food will hopefuly go straight down. nothing cruby to eat at all, from now on she is allowed par boiled carots slices.  water i am ony allowing her ten laps and if she copes with that without problems then she get another ten and so on.  I hope your dog gets on fine. we have had a good first day and are looking forward to many more.

Thanks Tadog for the advice. Cannot believe the difference in my dog, his breathing is now so quiet. He's got some problems with his pancreas so they've given me some dog food which is like a paste which he's finding he has too eat quite slow which is good. I asked them about water intake and was advised just to give as normal. He seems really relaxed so just got to try and keep him quiet now for 2 weeks which should be fun!  Just so glad that he's now home.

Haroll am pleased you have your dog back.  if you are worried re anything there are some pre posters on this thread that i am sure will be happy to help you.

Haroll, please take a look at the web site form the link I posted earlier in this thread. You will find lots of info and post op advice.

I am reading this thread avidly, but disappointed that all dogs that had the op were big.

I have a 6 year old spayed Long Coat Chihuahua bitch.  Her breathing is awful, and she went in yesterday to be scoped.

My own vet is experienced, and it is a large hospital practise, so I would want my own vet to operate.  He has asked me to get some weight off her before we do anything else.  Due to working in such a tiny space, the risk of my girl suffocating during surgery is high.  So he would perform a tracheotomy prior to surgery.  He has said that it is not without risk. 

Please, can anyone give me first hand experience of this operation on a toy breed?

Bump.