Hi my Bitch is 61 days today and i just took her temperature and it was 98.3 shes been leaking a clear fluid for a couple of days, and although i've read all the information i can and this seems normal,I can't help but feel i need to know more. Her temperature has been fluctuating for a couple of days it drops to 99 then shoots back up to over 100, I have everything ready for her and shes eating fine, The other thing is shes sleeping loads and her ears are back does this mean she may be on her way & ready to whelp, I had her scanned and the vet said he thought there was only 2 puppies in there IS she likely to go over with it been a small litter cause i thought little dogs usually whelp early...

Is she losing clear fluid or stringy clear discharge?

Is 2 a normal size litter for the breed? If it is a low number then there may not be enough hormones to trigger full labour and she has primary inertia, if she has been draining fluid and it isn't urine then the sac around at least one pup has ruptured, I would take her along to the vet for a check over before the weekend.

The mucous plug they pass if you see it is like egg white, no colour or smell.

If she has a green discharge before any pups then it means the placenta has seperated prematurely and you need to get to the vets ASAP.

I hope all goes well with her.

Is this the same bitch?  http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/cgi-bin/board/topic_show.pl?pid=1320378;hl=#pid1320378

She had 2 bitches ? pregnant, first had a phantom and this one I have just read back another thread was scanned and having 2 pups, Mum is only 5lb herself so more cause for concern that the pups are too big to fit through the pelvis.

its hard to tell cause its kind of sticking to her, I have cleaned it with a wipe and i can feel puppies moving about, I spoke to my mentor earlier and she said all seems  fine its quite normal for pregnant bitches to get discharge, I have just taken her Temperature again and its gone up to 99.8 shes eating fine though.

sounds like shes having a show! thats normal and can start week before pups are due. all the best! not long now :)

>I had her scanned and the vet said he thought there was only 2 puppies in there IS she likely to go over

I disagree with your vet if your breed is toy size.  I have many years of experience and would never be happy just waiting after the due date.  To be fair, in 40 years, I have only ever had one bitch go to her due date.  Day 56 onwards being the norm for toys in my experience.

i wish there was a LIKE button on here jean :).

Thanks for your replies, we are now on day 62 & no sign of the little ones arriving yet,she does seem puffy down below so hopefully not much longer, she's fine in herself though.

it could be that when she was mated she could of been abit early so if she goes to day 63 it might onlt be 61.

edit to say i would be very worried tho if she was only 2 days to due date.

tomorrow is her due date and shes fine showing no signs whatsoever, i can feel the puppies wriggling though and again there has been some clear/creamy discharge.

i wouldnt leave her no longer then tomorrow....she is a toy breed ,are you able to listen for heart beats? if so make sure you can still ear them fingers cossed she whelps tomorrow, all the best!

Not able to listen for heartbeats but can feel movement, her temperature is 100 at the minute & apart from more discharge still showing no signs :-(

Pups will continue to move till they die, my most recent litter I could feel movements and using a sonacaid hear heart beats up to her going into labour 2 days before her due date,she had one stillborn which I tried to revive unsuccessfully and 2 partly decomposed pups, so feeling movements is no guarantee that when she finally goes into labour that the pups will still be alive.

Hi been to the vets today cause reading some of the posts and looking on the internet i was really worried, He said there is nothing to worry about at all as she is eating and shes been absolutely fine in herself, Her temp is slighly lower than this morning at 99.4, its 63 days today from her first mating & 61 from her second so i hope she starts of herself over the next day or two.

noone wants to frighten you! we want to make sure you know what could happen and believe me not many vets understand much about whelping i know that sounds daft but its true! you know your girl if u feel something isnt right and you go to your vets in the next day or so get her a c-secsion ...i truley would be worried sick ,i dont know any min breeds that go to day 63 even our sheps go from 60-62 with 1st litter and thats been from 1st mating...hope all goes well!.

any news yet?

No news yet, now 64 days from first mating 62 from second mating, shes very sleepy but still eating, her Temp is 99.1 this morning, spoke to the vets again and they tell me to stop panicking and hangfire.

Does your vet breed?  and do they have experience of whelping toy breeds? 

If not then their opinion is only an educated, not an informed one. 

Do you have mentors in your breed.  Do you know what her mothers/sisters whelping behaviour and pattern have been?

I have recently had a bitch whelp her third litter, I knew from her size and the pattern of previous whelping that I did not want to wait four hours after the first puppy before giving her oxytocin to restart contractions, but unfortunately circumstances meant I was unable to see my own vet and the vet covering would not do anything for four hours, result I had three of the pups stillborn due to the delay and another dead one passed two days later. 

Luckily I have 7 healthy pups, but one appeared dead at birth and needed a lot of work to get him going.  Btu the vets book said it was OK to have four hours between whelps!  My bitch had never goen more than an hour between live births and had a stillborn pup when she went over two hours.

The vet i spoke to said she breeds cocker spaniels, I have her mum both times she had pups she whelped a week early, hence me worrying i spoke to my mentor who said see the vetm But i feel torn cause the vet says not to worry others say i should be, what would you do if she was yours, i am really upset and dont know which way to turn :'(

Hi Tilly,

I have had to join in......l used to have  a medium sized breed, so to go over, would not have been a big issue, BUT, having read loads of posts on here, from owners of toy breeds, l think that maybe she needs a C. Section IMMEDIATELY. I don't know what some of the others on here will say, BUT this may be a time when you have to put your foot down, and demand that they carry it out. If they get stroppy, l would tell them that if any of the pups are born dead, that you will sue them, and also report them to the relevant bodies.

Even though shes fine in herself, what is she didn't go by the first mating its day 64 & 62 so if she got pregnant by the second that'd make her 63 days tomorrow, her temp is still in thee 99's which is lower than her usual 100's + i just honestly dont know which way to turn, ive read so much im getting confused.

I haven't had a lot of toylitters, just 4, but I can say that those two with live pups were born after 59 days. Those two where either all pups or all pups but one were dead, were born after 63 days. Lesson learned...

I'd be asking for a second opinion from another vet, tell them that toy breeds whelp early and her dam had hers a week early in keeping with toy breeds.

What did the vet do when you took her in?  Did he do an internal to see what the cervix was doing? Did he Xray to see if the pups are small enough to pass through her pelvis, if the pups are too big to reach her cervix then it won't dilate as it needs the pressure of the first pup to open, unlike humans the vet told me that there is no set measurement[10cms]to say it is fully dilated, they can only tell if it has started to dilate or not, my first litter I took her in as she had been messing about for nearly a week and my mentor said just take her in for peace of mind,she had an internal and the cervix was starting to open, I insisted on a scan and there were 2 possibly 3 live pups, they didn't feel any contraction whilst she was away with them and told me to go home and stop worrying, that night I brought her into bed with me after putting a shower curtain and vet bed over the part she was going to sleep, I slept the best I had for over a week and she hardly moved, woke at 7am and fed everyone and at 8am she went into labour which lasted till 2.50am the next morning, I was so glad that we had both had that good nights sleep.

I hope everything goes OK

Tilly3812, firstly let me say I am no expert as regards Toys, and have only whelped one Toy litter. But my bitch went two days over, so she had the pups on day 65. We'd had our vet's in-house blood tests done to predict ovulation and the litter was about average size for the breed so I think we got the timing right. It was a natural whelping. Compared with our large breed the puppies were much bigger compared to the size of their dam, but she self-whelped them albeit with more effort than I am used to.

I'm not sure if that helps, I just didn't want you to think that you are the only one who has had an overdue bitch, or that it always has to be bad news.

Rhodach That is interesting to know, I took Roxy to bed with me last night and she slept all night, i've been up and down with her everynight for a week & was amazed she slept all night last night, Shes been very different today i.e. Quite and again sleepy, been a little moody with her mum too, Hoping tonights the night, The vet didn't do an internal either or an x ray.

Esme Thanks for that, It's good to know im not alone :(

> The vet didn't do an internal either or an x ray.

In which case i'd be back there, seeing a different vet demanding the above. You go with your gut instinct

I too would be back there today and not accept over the phone advice, an internal is the least I would expect, if I remember right she is only 5lbs pre pregnancy, even if mated to a stud her size or smaller those pups could still be bigger than she can cope with whelping mention that maybe an xray to see the size of pup heads compared to the outlet of the pelvis as she is such a small dog.

After a good nights sleep she should be feeling more energetic. Has she got any signs of milk yet[ not all bitches do pre labour], has her shape changed to make you think the pups are moving down towards the pelvis?

I hope you get a better opinion from your vet today.

im very worried for the pups, to be fare theres not many pups born after 63days from tiny breeds thats are born fine, but i do hope this is 1 of them x

I would wonder if it was safe to do an internal on such a small animal.  I think it would have to be a vet with a very dainty set of fingers.

If a pup is going to come out there should be room for at least a one finger examination with lots of lubricant, at least with a small dog the cervix won't be as high up as in a larger breed.

Mmmm, might be like giving birth in reverse :)

LOL stooge :-)

Tilly

How many toy size litters have you whelped?

I have whelped literally dozens over the years.  (A lot of years!)  And today I have better than ever facilities at my disposal -- and use them to the full.  Being registered with a practice that is also a hospital, I would be daft not to.

You are sat there getting "confused."

I would be at the hospital insisting on either x-ray or scan and would stay throughout the process so that I am in a position to tell the vet what I want as I'm the customer.  I want to be able to see for myself if there is a heartbeat (or, as once happened, a malpresentation in one uterine horn.)  And I have argued the toss with more than one vet when I didn't agree with them.  Not because I think I know it all, but because I have more experience than them at the whole pregnancy scenario with toys.  I have actually had a vet watch me deliver a litter, and then tell me that she had never seen a natural birth before.

You have had loads of advice, and I am at a loss as to why you are not taking this advice.  I would hate to think that you dithered too long.

I hope all is OK with the bitch

I hope all is well as we haven't heard from you for over 24hrs!!!!!!!

me thinks tilly is busy dealing with her new litter lets hope xxxxx

She's gone in for a section, just left here there I'm heartbroken :(

Fingers crossed for you. Did the vet not ask you to stay? I have had a couple of C-sect's and always stayed to help with getting pups started.
Is my vet unusual in this or do people not usually stay to help ?
Hope the outcome is good.
Aileen

Fingers crossed for live pups.

Aileen I've never (touchwood!) had a bitch caesarian but have had a few cat ones over the years. In the 23 years I have been breeding I have had 4 different vets, and only the first one allowed anyone to stay.

Have to say my vets are great with me and I have stayed to watch all sorts of op's from C-sect to spay, removal of lumps biopseys etc.. and I always help out with x-rays under sedation. Maybe it's because I have a medical background and they know I will not keel over at the sight of blood !! LOL
Aileen

I wasn't allowed to see the scan being done, they quoted some nonsense about clients owners not being allowed in the back area due to health and safety regs., so doubt if I'd get a chance to help out in a c/section, have changed vets since then and get scans done by a sheep scanner.

I hope you get a good outcome as she is several days over due now.

I wasn't allowed to see the scan being done, they quoted some nonsense about clients owners not being allowed in the back area due to health and safety regs., so doubt if I'd get a chance to help out in a c/section, have changed vets since then and get scans done by a sheep scanner.

Hi all Thanks for your messages, After a very stressful week, lots of tears and upset, Roxy had a ceserean and has one little girl, mum & baby both doing fine x

Such a stressful time, I am so relieved that in the end all is well although I assume you would have liked more than one pup after all that worry and expense at least your girl is well.

i'm just happy Roxy is ok after all this stress, the puppy is a bonus & we will of course be  keeping her x

we will of course be  keeping her x

Goes without saying - hope all goes well and that you are able to get some rest soon.