Hi, have a 2 year old entire male Goldie that is fit enough but wont gain weight, he is starting to get hormonal and dont want to have him neutered but wondered if the male hormone implant would help him gain weight as I know neutered dogs gain weight, if not any diet suggestions also appreciated

Have you spoken to his breeder ? His lines may be slow to mature and this could be very typical of his breeding. As long as he looks about right i wouldnt worry too much.

Has your vet said your dog is underweight?  It is normal for young males to be slim it is part of the hormonal process and he is a fair way off maturity at present.

If not just you but others who know dogs think he is underweight then I would take him to the vet to find out why, messing about with his hormones will not do him any favours and if he is unnaturally under weight then there may be a medical reason for it.

He is a slow maturer, he comes from a line of slow maturers and until a couple of months ago was a picky eater but he now eats 2 good meals a day, he is fit and ribs are covered (just not enough for the show ring) I'm just not used to picky dogs, mine have always been gutbuckets ! and I usually have to deal with weight loss not weight gain! so will just have to learn to be patient I guess :0)

If his ribs are covered then I wouldn't worry, he sounds fine :-) I find it ridiculous that dogs of so many breeds are expected to be heavier for the show ring - I'd rather have a lean dog any day, if only for the 'just in case' (e.g. if he was to injure himself, being lean gives him more leeway if he did gain weight while on rest).

What is he fed on?

If genuinely underweight, and not just youthfully trim, you could add a little more fat into his diet.  If kibble fed: a dessertspoon of goose or duck fat might help.  If raw fed: try lamb breast.  You could also give him a Bonio every evening before bed.

However it's likely to be just his age and stage he's reached - you may well find that whatever you feed him at the moment he'll simply shake it off.  My nearly two year old suddenly looks like a underfed waif (almost overnight) and all three dogs drop weight at this time of year.  The spring grass sends them a bit loopy!

> I'm just not used to picky dogs, mine have always been gutbuckets !

Thats the hardest bit isnt it. Keep at it, he'll get there :)

Think most dogs do OK despite what we give then to eat, dogs digestive needs are not the same as ours nor is their metabolism but we are inclined, naturally, to feed them as if they are. Fats are used by dogs much the same as sugars are in us for a quick energy requirements and because of the natural behaviour of the canine are often used and not stored as they are in us. Basic nutritional needs are the same as most omnivores and their digestive systems can deal with most foods except some cellulose plant material although feeding it causes no problem as it passes through.

Dogs require for good health carbohydrates (when digested simple sugars), protein (digested, peptides and amino-acids and fats (digested, glycerol, fatty acids & some glycerides) apart from these a dog needs some Minerals & Vitamins most of which are supplied in more or less correct quantities in the sort of diet most of us feed and additives are not advised as excess can cause problems. As well at the food components listed there is water in all these but in different amounts meaning the amount fed needs to be assessed with some knowledge of the water content. My book says fresh meat and canned foods about 75%, and suggest that Dry food is 5 to 12%, semi-moist at 15 to 50%, Canned 72 to85% and Frozen 60 to 75% now this book is getting old so there may be some changes but you will see the need for water is much higher if you feed dry or semi-moist than if you feed raw or frozen and because of this you need, by weight, far more raw or tinned food than if you feed dry.

How to increase weight well basicly the opposite of loosing it you have to eat more and move less. So I suppose if you want to increase the weight of your dog you need to feed the same balance of food but far more because in order to build up muscle you need to continue if not increase exercise.

I was under the impression that dogs have absolutely no requirement for carbohydrates as they digestive systems are geared up for a more carnivorous lifestyle and whilst they may eat fruit and 'veg' they don't eat, nor do their prey eat much in the way of carbohydrates.  In dog food it's really a filler not something to give them what their systems need.

A great way of adding weight to a dog is to feed pasta (most of the rescue organisations give pasta to very underweight dogs) - fat is fuel and usually gets used up in energy, protein is the more 'building block' ingredient...  a few dogs do suffer with excessive fat (even ones doing a reasonable amount of exercise) so it's as well to be careful not to overload the fat, but generally it gives energy not weight.

I was under the impression that dogs have absolutely no requirement for carbohydrates

You may be right but I can only go by what I was taught and as far as I know all mammals have a need for 'simple sugars'.

Hi i have a 4yrs old american Labrador retriever....he is overweight and very lazy....I am really worried as it has become very difficult for us to loose his weight!!....he does not like doing any exercise....please give me some suggestions!!!    

Yup - I agree.  They don't need to be fed carbohydrates - they manufacture the sugars they need from protein.  Although plant material (including grains) passes through it's not necessarily true that it doesn't cause damage - lots of dogs behave as coeliac humans do if fed wheat.  ie; gas, discomfort, large smelly poos.  Also yeast overgrowth disorders, skin issues and other digestive disorders are quite common in dogs fed on grains (ie; most kibbles).

In terms of exercising an overweight dog - the obvious is swimming (esp. with a labrador).  Google for dog hydrotherapy and book him in for some sessions.  If he is really overweight this will be the safest way to reduce weight whilst not stressing his joints.  Also cut his rations fairly hard - but you can bulk it out a bit with veg (liquidise it in a blender).  I let my Vizsla get a bit fat over Xmas (probably 10% overweight).  Unless you knew the breed you wouldn't know she was over-weight - but it really made her less keen on jumping (we do Working Trials).  I cut her rations by around 1/3rd - but it has still taken about 6 months for her to lose 2kg.  She is a lot livelier now.  I favour a raw diet - but if you can't do that you can buy low calorie dog food.  Don't forget to weigh all meals and also take treats into account.

You may feel mean cutting his rations - but actually you are being kind to him.  If you allow him to remain overweight he won't have a good quality of life and likely won't live as long as he should.

You may feel mean cutting his rations - but actually you are being kind to him.  If you allow him to remain overweight he won't have a good quality of life and likely won't live as long as he should.

This one is under not over weight.

Your comments with regards to carbs may be right science moves on and things may have changed since I was studying but I don't think you can get simple sugars from protein but you live and learn. And when I said plant material such as cellulose passing  through causing no problem I was talking of a healthy animal not one that for whatever reason requires special diet. There is after all cellulose in grass but I have not met a dog yet that does not eat grass and not all is regurgitated as anyone who has been required to help in the passing of a stool will testify.

Actually I was replying to the last poster who had a dog that's overweight.  Probably should have been a new topic.

The plant materials I was referring to was specifically grains - these can cause lots of problems for healthy dogs.

Very much agree on the grass front - it seems to come out pretty much unscathed (mind you - so do prawn shells!!)

Hmm - I might have got it wrong about synthesising sugars from proteins - but pretty sure they don't need carbs.  Anyone else - how do dogs get the sugars they need if not from carbs?

Just tagging on here, not replying to anyone specifically. As a raw feeder I didn't think dogs had any need of carbohydrates. So I was interested to read Steve Hutchins on the subject in his recent Blog. I've copied his answer to a question following his first article here:

19th April 2012 17:26 - Posted by : Steve Hutchins

Firstly the best thing to do is to research the net and look at both sides of the argument for the inclusion of carbohydrates in the formulations. Carbohydrates are certainly needed, but in REASONABLE AMOUNTS and they can actually provide a practical source of energy. The problem with some foods is the percentage quantity with some formulations is that they are adding far too much.

The following text is taken from Holistic Guide for a Healthy Dog, by Wendy Volhard and Kerry Brown. Their discussion of carbohydrates and the functions they perform seem to "prove" that most dogs need additional carbohydrates in their diet, a belief that is very pervasive in most concepts of canine nutrition.

"In addition to providing energy, carbs maintain the health of the thyroid, liver, heart, brain and nerve tissue. They regulate how much starch and fat will be broken down and utilized. Once in the digestive tract and assimilated, they are stored in the liver in the form of glycogen, which controls energy balance. Low carb intake may cause cardiac symptoms and angina. The central nervous system requires carbohydrates for proper functioning as does the brain. The brain can't store glucose and is therefore dependent on the minimum supply of glucose from the blood. With insufficent carbs in the diet, protein and fat are converted to energy, weakening the immune system and preventing the body from building enough antibodies to fight disease. Poor hair growth and constant shedding are symptoms of carbohydrate deficiency.

Thyroid function is also dependent on the correct amount of carbohydrates in a dogs diet. B compounds found in many grains and strach producing veggies is needed so the amino acids phenylalanine and tyrosine can produce T3".

I hope this answers your question. Best Regards Steve Hutchins

I've actually bought the book he refers to, but am still working my way through it. Haven't made my mind up what I think about it yet.

Yes - I read this response (actually it might have been me who asked the question).  I wasn't entirely convinced - here is a quote from Myths about Raw Feeding:

"Carbohydrates do provide quick and easy energy. However, it is not 'carbs' that maintain the health of the organs listed in the quotes above, but glucose. Glucose can be obtained from both fat and protein through a process known as gluconeogenesis, where amino acids and fat (not fatty acids; those use a different cycle) are "converted" to glucose. If carbs are present, though, they will be converted to energy first before fat and protein because they are easier to use. This is the reason that carbs regulate how much starch and fat will be broken down and utilized. If there is a plethora of carbohydrates, fat will be stored instead of used. If there are not enough carbs to fulfill energy needs, then fat will be converted to glucose and used. If no carbs are present, then fat and protein are used to fill energy needs."

So whilst a dog can indeed use carbs (after converting to glucose) - it doesn't seem that it's necessary to feed them as the dog can synthesise them from fat/protein.

> he is fit and ribs are covered (just not enough for the show ring)

Then there is no problem.
A dogs health should come way above what it looks like.

> I usually have to deal with weight loss not weight gain

Does that mean that you are used to your dogs being too fat? If so a slim, healthy, youngster is going to be quite a contrast.

To Ishakasper
Firstly take him to the Vet and check that he is otherwise well.

Then if OKay, I would halve his food intake and replace what you have removed with vegetables  if he shows he is hungry.

If he is loathe to exercise could he have a health issue other than the weight.  Thyroid levels would be my first thought, but if he is very overweight he simply will find it too hard to exercise much.

> Hi i have a 4yrs old american Labrador retriever....he is overweight and very lazy....I am really worried as it has become very difficult for us to loose his weight!!....he does not like doing any exercise....please give me some suggestions!!!   

Hydrotherapy as was suggested is excellent - although if he's very lazy, he might be like my lab and just float in the pool  :-P  She has to go in the underwater treadmill or she just drifts, no matter what they do to persuade her to swim.

Also, what are you feeding?  Some foods are better than others for weight loss/maintenance - the only ways Saffi can lose weight is either Chappie (on very strict rations, soaked overnight to fill her up a bit) or tinned meat (75% water, thereabouts so I can give her more without overfeeding her) with veg to bulk it up a bit.  She prefers the latter as she gets a more decent sized meal from that!

I agree though if you are really struggling to get weight off it may be worth checking his thyroid - I've had two dogs now with weight I just couldn't shift, one is Remy who's been hypothyroid for 7 years but only been on treatment that works for him since December, and it finally shifted the last 1kg that I've not been able to get rid of for years, and the other is Opi who has been a kg or two overweight for maybe a year now and was diagnosed hypothyroid in April.  As soon as she went on meds it was off.

A huge part of Saffi's trouble though is her joints - she doesn't much want to exercise, she likes to plod or maybe trot a bit but her knee and hip are severely arthritic so it is hard for her and she'd rather just lay down most of the time.  The hydrotherapy helps with that, too.