I have been in contact with a breeder from Germany about using one of her males.  She has contacted me today to say as far as she knows German dogs can only go to bitches registered with the FCI????  She is going to check it out but I wondered if any one on here had used a dog in Germany and maybe could advise me???

I have no idea how they went about it, but somebody in my breed has just had a litter from a stud dog in Germany so it must be possible.

of course it's possible, they have a reciprocal 'export' arrangement for dogs, so no problems with the studs.. you should check on KC website what you need, I think it's an official pedigree and info on stud's registration

The FCI doesn't register dogs, as far as I'm aware. It just co-ordinates the different individual counties' Kennel Clubs.

this is what the KC say - although not specifically about a German dog, but it would cover them

In order to register a litter, when the sire is registered overseas, you will need to provide us with, at least, a certified copy of the Three-Generation Pedigree issued by the overseas Kennel Club. This will need to confirm the pedigree details and the current registered ownership. We require this to be sent, with the litter application form. The fee to record a sire is a minimum of £20.00.

If they've already recorded the sire this isn't required.  This fee is, of course, on top of the litter registration fee.  You must send paperwork, you can't register on line.  So importantly you need the copy of pedigree showing the ownership, registration number etc...

and of course the litter application form with the part signed by the stud owner confirming the mating.

If your an accredited breeder then you will also need confirmation of the ABS required health testing for the sire, even though being overseas schemes they won't be added to the puppies records.

When I had a litter last year by a US stud dog owner I had to provide details of the prcd-PRA Optigen results (which are valid for inclusion here as part of UK health scheme), but also his hip testing details with OFA (which they don't record for the pups), but needed to have as Hips and the DNA test for prcd-PRA are required for ABS breeders in my breed.

of course that's a 'normal' requirement, not something 'special' for a dog on another registry ;-) so the KC don't mention that, assuming, I guess, that folk would realise that... I was merely showing what the KC said was the additional requirement :-)

> of course that's a 'normal' requirement,

Actually no, as when I used a dog in Finland before joining teh ABS I obtained his hip and eye test results and the KC were not interested in having them as not UK schemes, so of course i didn't copy the US dogs OFA certificate only to find I had to have the details, even though they are not mentioned on the overseas stud advice notes.

sorry, I wasn't referring to the health tests, which clearly aren't a 'normal' requirement as if you use a UK dog then you shouldn't have to provide health tests, but to the form signed by the stud dog owner ... will try and be clearer in future.

>but to the form signed by the stud dog owner

Not if it's done online.

From the kC site
"Q. How do I register a litter if an overseas sire has been used?
A. In order to register a litter, when the sire is registered overseas, you will need to provide us with, at least, a certified copy of the Three-Generation Pedigree issued by the overseas Kennel Club. This will need to confirm the pedigree details and the current registered ownership. We require this to be sent, with the litter application form. The fee to record a sire is a minimum of £20.00.
You would be unable to register the litter online if the sire resides overseas.

If the dog in question has already been recorded, we require no fee or pedigree to be sent, unless, the ownership has changed. If you can supply the breed and registered name, of the dog in question, we will be happy to check this for you by contacting our Registration Team on 0844 4633 980."

Ive just used a German stud and I got the owner to sign a green KC litter reg form, furnish me with a copy of his VDH Registration documents and a 3 generation pedigree ( among other things).

yes, that's what I posted above :-)

    >but to the form signed by the stud dog owner

Not if it's done online.

well as I said it had to be done via paper then it's exactly the same as if the stud is in UK ;-)

>> but to the form signed by the stud dog owner
> Not if it's done online.

You cannot register a litter online if the sire is foreign.  It HAS to be done on paper, and you need the form.

If the dog has their ATC number then you don't need the pedigree and the extra fee, if it does then obviously you do, as that would register it with the Kennel Club.

As the dog I used had his ATC number I actually queried the rule about having to send in the form rather than online since he is registered here, but the online system doesn't have access to ATC numbers.  Their explanation was that anyone can copy an ATC number from a catalogue, so the paper registration ensures they can check the signature against what they have on file.

I understand it, but still think it was a bit silly and time consuming.  It also ended up with them sending out 3 copies of one of my pups' registrations as for some reason they just couldn't get the name right no matter how neat my printing was in those teeny little boxes ;)

And even if you register a UK breeding online you are still required to keep a signed copy of the form as proof of the breeding/agreement.

    >> but to the form signed by the stud dog owner
    > Not if it's done online.

You cannot register a litter online if the sire is foreign.  It HAS to be done on paper, and you need the form.

I think this has now been 'done to death' :-(

If the dog has their ATC number then you don't need the pedigree and the extra fee, if it does then obviously you do, as that would register it with the Kennel Club.

This is interesting, but stated earlier if the stud dog is registered with the KC (either by sending the pedigree or has an ATC, which basically means the same) then it isn't required.

Well then please forgive me for replying with my real life experience to confirm what is written on the site.  Sorry for wasting everyone's time with my personal experience and clarifications of things people were still giving mixed info about.

Repetitive posts (particularly when the information has been put on the thread a few times) do tend to bring about my response - a petulant response usually irritates folk even more, but as you've asked you're forgiven this time ;-)

Thanks every one for all the replies :)  I have a feeling that it may be the breed club in Germany that have tighter rules than the rest of Europe.  My girls paperwork has all been sent to the chairman of the german breedclub to look over and give his ok so just waiting on an answer back.  From what I've been told the club dont usually let the breeders go outside FCI registered bitches but they do co operate with UK KC pedigrees/registrations/judges so should be ok.

I was thinking it was something related with the breed club, specially in German breeds like Rottweilers, GSD and Boxers the clubs are quite strict with reproduction, and the dogs need to be tested (not only health, but temperament).

In Germany the registrations are issued by the breed clubs, not the VDH.

Your right Chillington it is a German breed!!

in every breed I believe.. having imported a herding breed (originating in UK) from Germany it's fascinating what the breed club rules are - premises have to pass inspection before any pups are born, dogs have to have done at least a bit of showing, pups are inspected a couple of times, there are booklets to fill in on socialisation etc... all very strict and not a bad idea (apart from showing as most of the dogs in UK are working rather than showing)