Hi my small breed bitch was mated on day 12 of her season as said on a previous post I put I didn't manage to get her ovulation tested this time we only got 2 slip matings stud dog handler did hold the stud dog for a while and he did do the tip toe dance in that time now 4 weeks on she is looking more thin and not looking veryt pregnant at all i'm thinking of doing a ultrasound scan next week but too nervous at the same time as I'd be gutted she's not pregnant

She won't really look pregnant at this stage. Best bet to have her scanned soon, to stop all the ifs and buts

Depends what small breed bitch, but my toy breed definitely don't look pregnant at 4 weeks!  Far too early for mine.

Ok should she 'feel' any different at all at this stage as she does seem skinny and no thickening of sides or nothing

Neither my toys nor my large breed would look anything but skinny at 4 weeks -at that stage it's all still guesses and the only clues to pregnancy are in behaviour -with some, not all. Visual weight gain usually starts after about 6 weeks.

Sometimes in the weeks leading up to the 4 week mark you can observe behavioural differences. Some become very loving and clingy...others do not. Some can go off their food around 2 weeks and be a bit sicky (akin I suppose to morning sickness in women)

But size wise I wouldn't be expecting anything at 4 weeks. Wait another week and get a scan done (puppies are very obvious by 5 weeks) and you will know once and for all. Good luck and let us know. :)

rockrose.. ditto :)

Thanks for the replies and in reply to behavioural changes nothing much only she is a little more sleepy and gone off her usual food and she was a little sick a few days ago but then again all this could be a phantom she has started mounting things is this normal behaviour especially after she's finished her season or this to do with hormnonal changes

Hi sorry for starting a new thread but just seriously upset my bitch doesn't seem to be pregnant yes should really wait for scan which i could only get done next week she's about 5 weeks she's a small breed after numerous tries previously she only ever had 1 litter and was hoping to get 1 last litter from her before i 'retire' her this really is the last chance and just doesn't seem to be why does everyone who has put every effort, time and should i say money but don't care about that it's for the planning of a much planned and anticpated litter don't seem to get anything but those who just breed for the sake of it or to just make some quick money get's litters sorry just stressed and just venting

Still a little soon to be giving up.  Fingers crossed for a positive outcome.

Don't give up until the scan :) But yes  do understand what you say about the puppy farmers and BYB getting their dogs pregnant so easily and yet good breeders who strive to do everything right seem to have the troubles. Of course even the bad breeders must have problems at times but it does seem the opposite when you are struggling yourself. I know...I've been there. Its very hard not to be bitter but chin up and get her scanned.

Hi thanks for the fingers crosses and hoping she was scanned with 2 definate live puppies but possibly another 2 that was last week only now she looks back to pre pregnancy weight and i haven't felt or seen any movement she's now 7 weeks so is it possible she reabsorbed i really don't get it though can she reabsorbed at 6 weeks stage we seen a live puppy with a heartbeat and looked fine on the scan i was advised to get an x ray to be sure instead of a scan would a scan be ok to show wether she''s lost them or not so upset just now as this was our last try with her

They can absorb up to 6 weeks before the bones calcify, After that they can mummify and be passed looking something like an Owl pellet, or they can abort.

They can absorb up to 6 weeks before the bones calcify, After that they can mummify and be passed looking something like an Owl pellet, or they can abort.

So sorry that things don't look promising, scans will pick up heart beats that Xrays don't.

I know of one bitch who absorbed/aborted at 7 weeks, the first time her stupid owner took her to a car boot sale and she was attacked by a GSD, the next time her home life was disrupted by family members moving in and instead of spending her outdoor time in the quiet back garden she was forced to the noisy front garden where local kids were taunting her and her dam.

Just thinking and researching if she reabsorbed at this late stage wouldn't there be a discharge to say she reabsorbed and wouldn't they be aborted instead i'm getting contradicting information on when they can reabsorb up to some say they can reabsorb up to about 6 or 7 weeks of pregnancy some say they can reabsorb anytime throughout their pregnancy i can't find anything really much on reabsorbtion in the book of the bitch

Hi my bitch reabsorbed at 6 weeks, broke my heart x

Hi joanne did you notice any discharge when your girl reabsorbed

There isn't normally a discharge, the bitches keep themselves clean.

Those aborted later unobserved may have ingested the pups leaving no evidence.

No there was nothing at all, didn't know till she didnt
Go into labour, on the scan we clearly saw 3 heartbeats, when she didn't go into labour there was nothing there, the vet said she had probably reabsorbed at around six weeks before the pups bones calcify, it was her first litter couldn't let her go through that again so I had her spayed, she appeared very depressed afterwords xx

Years ago one of my girls litter died around 5 weeks+ pregnant, she was scanned at 5 weeks and 7 heart beats were picked up, at 7 weeks she actually delivered 5 mummified dead puppies, no discharge before, vet checked over the dead pups and said they had died around the 5 week mark so not long after she was scanned.  They were fully formed pups, curled up in the foetal position, but black  :-(

She did go on to have a last litter with 8 healthy live pups.

Ok so she seems to be heavier but i can't seem to feel or see any movement and i've been told she can't reabsorb when the puppies bones are there so really stuck should i go for another scan could she be quite heavy if she is only having 2 puppies

Time will tell, not long to wait now, treat as if pregnant being ready for whelping from a week before due date.

If nothing appears by a few days after the last mating due date then you will have your answer.

I had two pups born last year, mum looked well pregnant and I was sure there were more, but yep, just the two arrived.

My Cassie never looked pregnant until around 7 weeks gestation. I remember the time she kept us guessing until 8 weeks and was observed leaping fences at day 62 by a very experienced breeder who predicted 2 perhaps 3 puppies. She whelped 10 that night ! And leaped the fence within hours of whelping. This was not encouraged !

when is she due sofie? i didnt feel pups move at all till 1week before 1 of my girls gave birth so dont worry just yet x

Hi white lilly she's due next week but still can't feel any movement yet i'm not sure wether to get 1 last scan or not this week just to be sure or this might stress her out

In my last litter I never felt any movement at all...not once. I kept trying when she was lying on her side but nothing at all :) All pups arrived safe and well.

We had no movement in the last litter either until the week they popped out.  If it is only a small litter for the breed (i'm not sure what your normal litter size is) then its very likely she won't look pregnant at all even a day or 2 before hand.  My friends large breed bitch had 10 pups and a week before hand she was still a skiny rake - God only knows where she was hiding them!

ok she's meant to be due today but no signs of impending labour yet getting quite worried i was thinking if she hasn't given birth tonight i'll be taking her to the vets just in case how long overdue can they go that is safe

depends on breed, most toy breeds breeders don't let them go over at all.

Agreed. My bitch was showing some signs of being in first stage of whelping - nothing too dramatic, just a bit of digging etc and her temp had dropped and stayed down for 12 hours. Pups were active and heartbeats strong but on the morning of day 64 I took her to the vets and an emergency c-section was performed, as I knew it was risky to leave her any longer. Vet would have been happy to leave her longer but I know my breed.

It depends on the breed and the bitch. My last litter was born naturally on day 68 from the first mating! I'd had her checked by the vet frequently, but she was quite happy and active and the pups were lively, so there was no cause for concern. We reckon she must just have conceived late.

>Vet would have been happy to leave her longer but I know my breed.

And this is what is important.  Having the experience to know the bitch in question.  Is the OP experienced enough to recognise inertia?

"And this is what is important.  Having the experience to know the bitch in question."

Absolutely. No one would ever wish to put a bitch through an unnecessary c-section, nor risk leaving it until it is too late. Getting it right is crucial.

With the weekend looming I would take her to the vets tomorrow and see what an Xray shows, if she doesn't get going over night, the clearer the skull and bones are seen the nearer to being "cooked" the pups are, if the bones are not very clear then she may have a few more days to go.

Over how many days was she mated, my lot seem to deliver early day61/2 from first mating or day 63 from second mating which is 48hrs after the first one.

Keeping everything crossed that she goes into labour naturally over night.

Any news today?

Hi spoken to vet today they said if she is showing no signs of distress and if she is fine just leave it for another day and if still nothing i can take her in tommorrow she's fine in her self just no signs of labour and yes jean i've got an experienced mentor and is helping me and has let me know what to looking out for warning signs of things like primary inertia i'm watching like a hawk i'm hoping she does have them naturally tonight

Has your mentor said what is usual for your breed and your bitches bloodline re whelping dates.

For example my breed is medium size but they rarely go 63 days usually about 60 - 61 but I have had several whelp 4 or 5 days early. 

Have had very few go over, though one that went over four days to a single mating, when checked at 4 weeks, seemed not as far advanced as dates, so we suspect she didn't take for several days (only 4 pups).  I had suspected she may have been mated too early as tarty experienced bitch on last litter.

"Have had very few go over, though one that went over four days to a single mating, when checked at 4 weeks, seemed not as far advanced as dates"

In my bitches case, she had been ovulation tested via a scan and the only mating we got (because of Crufts getting in the way lol) was on the day the scan said would be our last chance for success - so I knew come day 64 that she was properly over, with no signs of progessing from the first stage of whelping ie primary inertia. As a breed cavaliers go early, but all breeds are different obviously.

Hi just an update got my girl to the vets today a scan and x ray was done and as my gut feeling told me there is no puppies apparently she reabsorbed them as we definately seen puppies in her previous scan heartbeats aswell i'm really upset by this as this really was the last chance and just seeing adverts from someone local who is on their 3rd litter with same bitch in less than 2 years of their pet dog and their crosses just makes me so angry

what a shame. :(

Thats sad news indeed :(

I am so sorry that the news wasn't better.

One of my bitches had 4 phantoms and then on her last chance she had 1 stillborn and 2 partly decomposed pups, I know how you feel when there are lots out there breeding from untested dogs, using the dog up the road for the sire and have no problems producing litter after litter.

Sorry about the disappointing news Sofie. Re. your local breeder, 'the devil takes care of his own' !

sorry to read this :( x