Excellent video on the correct way to use a rattle bottle in training ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=716Smdtc2PA

Josh

Brilliant!

Excellent! :-D

Absolutely right!

Love it................Does a water bottle/pistol still get used by people in training, I am sure this traumatised my dog when I took her to obedience :(

Karen

Brill :-D

I left an obedience class when the trainer started shouting No! At rowdy dogs and spraying one with dog aggression problems with a water pistol. Not only was it not the dog he was handling but his timing was completely off! He'll be lucky not to get bitten one day, he was terrible! Even worse, the group was training for kc silver good citizen award :-/

yes dogz,my trainer uses a water spray on noisy dogs when they first come to class.

Brilliant, I've stolen it and shared it on facebook :-)

LOL, that's excellent--I wondered what could possibly be said about it!

I have never used a rattle bottle but a lady who walks sometimes with me with her GSD had a real problem when she got her (Rescue at 20 months). She would rush up to dogs really aggressivly barking, never bit just barked and she then wanted to play, she had a trainer who taught her how to use one to stop her in her tracks and to reward the good behaviour afterwards with a high value treat. She was a dedicated owner and worked very very hard on Mia. Within a couple of weeks Mia had stopped the barking and the bottle was discarded, now 4 years later Mia is a wonderfull well adjusted happy girl who approaches dogs calmly and is never a problem. I am not condoning the use of them but it gave Mia a second chance at life as she had been in and out of rescue for nearly a year before and was always returned as people could not cope with her behaviour. Maybe she had the temperament to cope with it and it certainly worked. My soft BMD's would be spooked if I rattled it mext to them as would lots of dogs but I cannot take away the fact that for Mia it was her salvation.
I suppose with time and work her owner could have stopped the aggression but it did give her the way to stop the rush immediatly and the rewards worked much quicker.
Like all things I suppose in the wrong hands they can cause real problems but for this unloved lost GSD it helped to save a life. Not sure if she would have spent her life in and out of rescue without it as she did not show this aggression unless out on a walk.
Aileen

> I suppose with time and work her owner could have stopped the aggression but it did give her the way to stop the rush immediatly and the rewards worked much quicker.

Mia wasn't agressive if she only wanted to play, she was excited and ill-mannered. The rattle bottle would have been a huge risk if she was dog-agressive as it could have made the agression worse. With a non dog-agressive dog it can instill a negative association and create agression. It was extremely lucky that this worked for Mia but it was not needed.
There is an over-looked device that can help teach a dog how to greet another under control and works perfectly with rewards - it's called a lead :)

Yes I know, as I said I did not condone it. Mia was always leashed on walks to start but I know she pulled her owner over a couple of times as she is a large longcoated girlie. You are right and it could have been a disaster but I think the trainer knew she was just excitable not really agressive and the sharp rattle stoped her headlong flight. But I do agree it is a risk and not one I would wish to take.
Aileen

> Does a water bottle/pistol still get used by people in training, I am sure this traumatised my dog when I took her to obedience :-(

Unfortunately yes, the local trainer used to use it and it is one of things that I know caused major psychological damage about being handled to my Raine.  I stepped in and stopped the trainer but too late, the damage was done :-(  Thankfully now she knows better, too late for Rai in so many ways (her other training methods caused damage too) but at least other dogs won't go through what she did.

What worries me though is that she says it was the more established trainer/behaviourist locally that taught her those methods and they are apparently still using them :-(

I have not watched the video so don't know what its about.

I don't use rattle bottles, I saw them being used on Dogs Borstal, I did not like what and on balance I liked the dogs behaviour less then use of the bottle, the upside of the bottle use on Dogs Borstal was that the trainer gave the owner a simple method he could use & that could have been one the cogs amongst others which could play a part in the dog & owner starting to develop a worthwhile relationship raising the prospects of the dog maintaining its existance in what, untill shown otherwise, is a lifelong home where the dog is  content & happy to live out its days, which is the priority of importance to the dog and owner partnership.

What I dislike more than the dislikes above are those display the familiar, cult thought patterns which say don't do that, although it works, and who then fail to give any method or ideas which the individuals concerned do not guaruntee. Or at least give the name and addy of a rescue has vacancies and will accept a dog with noise nusance bark problem with so far no one has shown the slightest sign of giveing a garunateed solution to the problem & think dogs are much happier waiting their final days till PTS, locked in shelter for the homeless & destitute becase no one wants to take on a bark problem dog & no surprises that those who say no one must use a rattle bottle are nowhere to be seen with any soloution.

Thats my balanced view, in context.

>I have not watched the video so don't know what its about.

You need to watch it to understand.

>  that could have been one the cogs amongst others which could play a part in the dog & owner starting to develop a worthwhile relationship

Is a relationship in which one party startles and frightens the other, ever going to be a worthwile one for the party that is on the receiving end? I personally don't think so.

I'm dealing with my son being bullied at the moment, the basics of it are the bully is using fear to try to control what my son does (where he goes, who he is 'allowed' to talk to). The bully is getting what he wants - controlling my sons behaviour, my son is having sleepless nights and spending his days in fear of what will happen next. Allthough I am talking about 12 year old humans here, not dogs, I am sure everybody reading can see the comparision between this bully and a dog 'trainer' that relies on scare-tactics to 'train'.

:( :( :(

I've seen the use of a rattle bottle go spectacularly wrong and once seen, never forgotten. An ex neighbour of ours used one to deter her unruly young dog from jumping up. Unfortunately her older dog, which suffered from epilepsy, was nearby. He backed into a corner and had a full-scale fit on the spot. He'd had none of the usual warning signs - pacing, fly-catching, obsessive sniffing etc that he might usually have shown. My neighbour and I both thought his fit had been triggered by the sudden shock of the noise. Can't prove it of course. But it was enough to make her throw the bottle away and put me off for life.

Yes, I suppose aversion techniques can have their place if an owner is desperate. But perhaps keep in mind the possible effect they might have on others around them. I'm not sure people on this board could refer anyone to a behaviourist, class etc without knowing where the owner in trouble was. The OP here isn't an owner in trouble, they were just sharing the video.

Okay, I think you may be the only other person who actually stands up and says (apart from me) that water squirting in training is also NOT good.
So glad that I am not alone :)

Karen