I don't have a Border Collie so I am asking this on behalf of someone else. They have a BC pup and when they took her to their vet for her vaccinations the vet said there are genetic problems in BC's where a dog will either have the genetic problem, be a carrier or be clear and as such the pup has been tested and they await the results, it is the MDR1 gene. Anyone heard of this? http://www.colliehealth.org/ivermectin.html

They've been told that only Advocate treats lungworm but that no BC's can have Advocate for this reason so therefore their BC will not be protected from lungworm.

They have been in touch with another BC owner and their vet says that it is only Blue Merle BC's affected and that previous drugs affected them but that Advocate is a new generation drug and is fine for all BC's. So one vet contradicts another.

Any wisdom/opinions and advice?

It's always been the case that ANY Collie breed or cross, not just Borders and not just certain colours, and indeed some other pastoral breeds as well, most often cannot tolerate Ivermectin.

It says on the box of Panacur I have that it treats Lungworm - several kinds?   surely the manufacturers couldn't say this if it weren't true?

More rough collies than border collies suffer this, but you do need to be aware of it if you have a herding breed... it can include GSDs, Lancashire Heelers, Tollers, shelties etc etc... there's a list somewhere, but percentage wise, roughs suffer more and I believe that the test is now included in their health requirements... which it's not on the border collie.

Border collies do have other issues which can be tested for

TNS - all breeding dogs should be tested for this - DNA test will say if a dog is clear or a carrier (affected pups don't live long enough for testing to be an issue)

CL - although rarer in UK than Australia, this is another DNA testable disease, affected dogs will live 3 or 4 years about

CEA - collie eye - DNA test to establish if clear, carrier or affected

gonioscopy - to test if narrow angled glaucoma could be a problem - various levels of clear to bad.... affected dogs will lose their sight and eventually their eyes

Being a carrier for TNS/CL or CEA isn't the end of the world, but important to know.  It's the end of a pups life if two TNS or CL carriers are put together and the genes produce affected pups.

Other issues to watch out for are epilepsy, deafness and HD

Only blue merle BC's are affected?? Oh dear.... :-(

Tell your friend to get the puppy tested, if they don't know the status of the parents.... it can be done easily by mouth swab and in this country it is done by Laboklin  [url=http://www.laboklin.co.uk[/url]

For a list of the drugs that may affect the dogs go to http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/depts-vcpl/drugs.aspx

I do the puppy/rescue list for my breed and try to ensure that a list of the drugs goes out with all puppies and rehomes and an extra copy is provided for the dogs new vet as it is surprising how many vets are not really aware of this....

Hope this helps... PM me if you need any further info

Gabrielle :-)

Panacur definitely does treat lung worm as that is what a bitch I bred in Home counties was treated with 8 years ago. 

Panacur data sheet: http://www.msd-animal-health.co.uk/products_public/panacur_10__liquid/090_product_datasheet.aspx
"Other:
Also for the treatment of dogs infected with lung worm Oslerus (Filaroides) osleri or protozoa Giardia  spp. and cats infected with lungworm Aelurostrongylus abstrusus.

Also has an ovicidal effect on nematode eggs.

Increased dosing for specific infections:
For the treatment of clinical worm infestations in adult dogs and cats or Giardia  spp. infections in dogs, administer 1ml per 2kg bodyweight daily for 3 consecutive days.

(= 50mg fenbendazole/kg bodyweight daily for 3 days).

For the control of lungworm Oslerus (Filaroides) osleri in dogs administer 1ml per 2kg bodyweight daily for 7 consecutive days.

(= 50mg fenbendazole/kg bodyweight daily for 7 days).

A repeat course of treatment may be required in some cases"

They are given a lower dose than for standard worming but daily over a 7 day period.  This is probably why some Vets prescibe other products as preferred option, as a single dose.

Border collies have quite a few testable genetic issues (as do many breeds), but if in any doubt over MDR1 status (unless tested clear) then better to use those products that are not Ivermectin derivatives.

Thanks for all those answers, I have passed them all on. She's had her pup tested, just waiting for the results now. What she and I are amazed at is the contradictions various vets have with each other over this.

> She's had her pup tested, just waiting for the results now. What she and I are amazed at is the contradictions various vets have with each other over this.

Will you let us know the result when she gets it? I will be interested to know.

As said before, it seems to be much more common in the Rough Collie than the Border Collie, and this is not helped when reading up on MDR1 as much of the research was done over the pond, and when an American says "Collie" they mean a Rough, but to us in the UK Collie is usually taken to be BC unless otherwise identified.

I do hope she wasn't pushed into getting the test by the vet... [who may have had his wires crossed anyway]. It is easy enough to avoid any medication that may affect MDR1 dogs if in doubt... there are always effective alternatives.

Six years ago when my BC-cross pup had his jabs, the vet recommended a certain flea treatment. I had a look at the leaflet and said I would prefer to avoid it as it contained Moxidectin which can affect some Collie breeds. He looked at me in surprise and and said he would check it, which he did, and realised I was right - at least according to the data available online at the time. Now having looked into it a bit further it is the Rough and Smooth Collies that are more likely to be affected, plus Australian Shepherds, Silken Windhounds and several other breeds.

But I would still avoid it, and source a safe alternative - did consider the MDR1 test but decided there were plenty enough safer alternative drugs out there and a BC crossed with a breed that is not on the MDR1 list has only a very tiny chance of having the gene.

Yeah, will definitely come back with the result. It's possible she was pushed into the test by the vet though apparently the vet has 2 BC's of his/her own so maybe it is a genuine concern. Either way I guess the result will be worth knowing and I have given her the sheet with the drug info for the future, helpful to know there are alternatives to everything.

> But I would still avoid it, and source a safe alternative - did consider the MDR1 test but decided there were plenty enough safer alternative drugs out there and a BC crossed with a breed that is not on the MDR1 list has only a very tiny chance of having the gene.

I agree that the test is not necessary at all if you simply treat your dog as MRD1 affected, I've done this for years with my collies. Really anyone with a dog that they're not completely sure of the parentage of should avoid ivermectin type drugs as it doesn't seem to matter if it's just a tiny bit of collie or whatever in them - silkens are a prime example of this. Who would have thought looking at silken windhounds that they could carry the gene... presumably the defect gene came from a sheltie that may have been behind the original long haired whippets but nobody knows for sure.

Gosh, I knew about collies / collie crosses and ivermectin, but had no idea so many pastoral breeds were affected. You learn something new.... :-)

Re. gonioscopy having a high grade doesnt always mean that a dog will go blind. one of my girls lived to 15 and had the worst grade but she never got glaucoma and didn't go blind.

As I understand it re gonodysgenisis (sp) this only shows the dog is predisposed to Glaucoma not that it will develop it.

My breed though not listed for Glaucoma has had more cases of it than of PRA, but it is Open angle so no predisposition that can be tested for.

We were under investigation, but not any more as statistically not enough cases in UK, but we know it must be hereditary but we suspect it has to have a trigger of be of variable expression so ti's hard to get a definitive pattern re inheritance.

I.  too had no idea about the other breeds having got a gsd will now take care. 

Re. gonioscopy having a high grade doesnt always mean that a dog will go blind. one of my girls lived to 15 and had the worst grade but she never got glaucoma and didn't go blind.

no, it's merely an indication.. which is why I said it 'could' be a problem, and an indicator not to use for breeding... but it's the only indicator there is at the moment for narrow angled glaucoma

Sorry PennyGC but when I read your first part it did seem to say that they will go blind and lose their eyes, just to advise people that this is not always what will happen, sadly there have been dogs in my breed who have not had the highest score but have ended up having their eyes removed.  Maybe it's the way I interpreted what you wrote incorrectly.

yes, think you've misread, it says that gonioscopy tests for possibility of glaucaoma and that AFFECTED dogs will suffer eyesight loss and indeed loss of eyes... the test is for possibilities and if a dog has a poor gonioscopy test they shouldn't be used for breeding, those dogs may suffer from glaucoma, but not necessarily so, there isn't a test for to predict actual narrow angled glaucoma nor are there any tests for any other type of glaucoma in border collies at the moment.

My local eye panelist told me he hates glaucoma the most of all the eye issues especially Open angle glaucoma as it's a total lottery with nothing test wise to help avoid it

Saw my friend yesterday. The genetic tests came back clear. She also now believes her vet to be over zealous and unecessarily panicked her having reearched the issues further.

Only just spotted this post. Sounds like your friend has a badly misinformed vet :-o Still, on the plus side at least the vet had come across the MDR1 gene ;-)