Hi all , newbie here , although been reading the forum post's with starry addicted eyes for the past week and think it's great :0) ...
I am a groomer and have a passion for showing , all be it not for a while as my last afghan bitch is retired now and not long lost my old boy .. anyway sorry , i just wanted to ask if anyone know what i can do about a client that constantly breeds from her westy bitch , everytime she seems to come in for grooming she is in whelp ... im getting worried as she is getting on for 8 years ,the last litter was 6 and the owner boasted how she can rear a 5 week litter on one pkt of nature diet and boiled pasta per day  !!!! she is not kc reg but uses a well known registration company who accepts any dog .. is there any laws she is breaking , im sick of this now as over the years this thing seems to be on the increase, i try and persuade her to get her spayed , even managed to get my lovely vet to do half price and i try and help by getting free puppy food samples from our reps.( tho i resent it as she drives a posh car and well to do , but its for the poor girl )
I have bred in the past , not affies but my Dachsies and know about the worries and stresses , scans , xrays , good nutrition , health screenings... having a litter is not something you decide on overnight and think of it as a money spinner , we rescue the odd dog and rehome through our lovely network of grooming customers and the amount that are riddled with health problems due to bad breeding is scary . What can i do for this dog ? have even thought of buying her , which is against every moral bone in my body x

> is there any laws she is breaking

As I understood it the legal limit for litters was 6, but maybe that only applies to commercial breeders (where you cannot prove how often they have whelped if false Mum details given).

http://www.melton.gov.uk/environment_and_planning/licences_and_street_trading/dog_breeding_licence.aspx

Hi , thanks for that .. was having a good read , the only thing is i dont think she is licensed as i read that the law is in place for licensed breeders, only dog she has and she claims she is just her pet ,
Im not keen on the rspca but is that an option, re the new animal welfare act , the only thing i can think of is the feeding part as they are not getting what they need and that i dont think medical care is being given .. its frustrating as you feel your hands are tied .

It is hard when they are not registered with the local authority or the KC[ limit is now 4 litters before the age of 8].

You could try scaring her that if the RSPCA or such was to hear about what she is doing she may lose the dog. There is a stud owner somewhere participating in what this poor girl is being put through if she truly only has the one bitch, I'd be surprised if she hasn't kept back at least one bitch to carry on the process.

I would be reluctant to do any further business with her if she doesn't see sense

I can only applaud you for your self control with this poor example of a human being! She sounds like a Cruella De Vill! How on earth does she sleep at night.
I think if you ostracise yourself from this woman by refusing to do business with her you run the risk of losing all contact with her and the bitch. At least while she is a customer you stand a good chance of helping re-home the dog should the need arise. I guess when she decides to retire the bitch, is the bitch going to be replaced with another money making bitch to fuel this woman's extravagant lifestyle. The answer to that is probably yes sadly. If you bought/rescued this bitch how are you going to feel in six months times when the woman turns up at with a new dog?
It seems she is savvy on how to work the system to her advantage. I certainly don't envy you in your position.
I'm not a fan of the RSPCA myself but if she isn't licensed it seems your options are limited.

I agree in principle that i ought to wash my hands of this woman  , Rhodach but like Zebedee mentioned at least if i stay in touch i can help , not that it will help in the long run as this person like you say will eventually get another ... from where god only knows as this poor girl resembles nothing like a typical well bred westy , thin coat , pale nose and half cocked ears and legs longer than a greyhound , you know the sort .
I keep her as a client in the knowledge that when she comes here  for her groom i can at least treat her gently and not stress her , the only other groomer in the area is a bit of a nut , little rough with some of the dogs and they usually come to me with belly strap burns on tum or bits snipped off ! the sad thing is this bitch is reluctant to go back to owner after having a few hours treats , freedom and cuddles with us.
I will prob say something to her in the tune that the rspca are cracking down on breeders etc and they moniter how many adverts are placed , which is what my vet suggested ( tho not true as i know too well )
I had them round recently to investigate a starving afghan that someone saw in my shop ! thanks that was my boy! he had kidney disease and was on soloxin for hypothyroidism and was 15 , after a quick call to my vets and finding i was spending in excess of 200 pounds in vet fees on him a month , they eventually left ,yet when i called re a cat that had come in with wounds and a the worst matting i had ever seen then the responce was 'we cant do anything as they have brought her in to rectify the prob ' it must have taken months for her to get like that .
Anyway thank you all for advice , this is not going to be an easy one as i have had many a sleepless night over it .

> I would be reluctant to do any further business with her if she doesn't see sense

I agree with Rhona.
It upsets you to see this bitch being bred back-to-back, and that can't be good for your morale. If there is no way the authorities will get involved, then be your own authority and decline her as a client. At least then you will have a chance to put your views across about why, and stand up for what you believe in. I know it doesn't help that bitch, but short of buying every dog the woman owns, what other option is there if you want a clear conscience?

You never know, she may not even realise what she is doing is wrong, and you would at least have the chance to explain it by refusing her.

I would have a word with the tax people, I'll bet you she isn't declaring the income from the pups, yet if she is breeding every season then she is clearly doing it for profit...

Yes, I would go the tax route as well, she may not be so keen if she finds she is loosing a big chunk of her 'profit'

At the dog law seminar I was at yesterday it was discussed that if somebody breeds enough pups to make a profit, then it could be argued that that person is running a business and therefore must have a license to do so. It may not matter if you do not breed 5 litters a year, if you have 2 litters of a breed where pups sell for a lot of money, or where there are very large litters, you will make a profit and then you are running a business and not a hobby.

Definately the tax route. Just ask her how she gets round the tax man.

The tax evasion hotline is 0800 788 887. There is lots of information on the HMRC website.
I have reported 2 people. You have to know some basic details before you begin.There is no feedback but one of them never advertised another litter to my knowledge.
I breed sheep and a cow and I fill in tax returns every year even though I make a loss. I have asked if it is a hobby therefore but they say -- you never know when you might make a profit. The loss is set against my salary and pension.

Also bear in mind that the licensing requirments vary from area ot area, and some concils require a license regardless of numbers if they consider a business element is present  - which this appears ot be, if hte only reason she breeds is for profit.  Worth checking out the local guidelines.

Hi guys , thanks .. i never even thought about tax evasion .. that is probably the best route as its going to hit her where it hurts !
i'll prob start with when she is due next by saying if she would like an invoice for her dogs groom to set against her tax bill ! can't wait to see the look on her face , im not against facing her if i had something to go on and this is just what i needed , thanks again all x

>i'll prob start with when she is due next by saying if she would like an invoice for her dogs groom to set against her tax bill

        You crafty little devil!  

Brilliant idea, I love it!       

The Local authority is another good route, as has been pointed out a licence is needed for all those who breed 5 or more litters, and/or breed as a business. A visit from them will put the widn up her too.

From a welfare point of view with the LA consider her breedign on a business bassis then the 6 litters in a lifetime rule and year between litters will aply to her.

If you are going to go down the tax evasion route then I would not say anything to her at all as you don't want to give her any clue that it was you reporting her. At the end of the day you have a business to run and you don't want her to go round bad mouthing you and losing you custom.
Also, try and get some copies of her past advertisements for litters to prove what she has been doing. If she advertises on line then they may come up on Google.
Good luck !