Hi Everyone   I show a dobermann and I think she may be a little ring shy. She stands ok its just when she is running in the ring she doesn't hold her head up high enough it not right down on the ground she holds it level but she just doesn't look happy. She was very frightened of dogs we when we got her so think this might have something to do with it but we have taken her to socialisation class and she has gotten a lot better and not realises not every dog is going to hurt her any advice appreciated thanks

I would keep her out of the ring for a while, at least until she is a lot happier round other dogs. I had one that hated the show ring. She would put her head down, and drag her feet round the ring so I retired her. Not all dogs enjoy it.

Keep socialising her for now though, it won't do her any harm so long as you are aware of her body language and don't push her into a situation where she is scared, or at the very least, a bit worried.

My young dog was unhappy going into the show ring at some venues when we first started but I carried on with ringcraft for him and plenty of socialising and also, when we were just about to go into some of the buildings, I sprayed abit of DAP spray on his forechest. 

http://www.petplanet.co.uk/product.asp?dept_id=719&pf_id=6478&co=fr

This is what I used and it certainly worked in making that situation less stressful now for him.

> She would put her head down, and drag her feet round the ring so I retired her

Thank goodness for her she had you as an owner.  Yes some are genuinely apprehensive and with time and patience get over it and end up loving the ring.  But some never "love" showing and I hate to see some literally dragged into the ring, hauled round, time and time again to satisfy the egotistical owner.  I witnessed one poor bitch at Birmingham last week, a large breed being dragged / carried by the choke chain around the ring, gasping for breath as it went.  And it is like this every time.  So sad.

Harkback,

I couldn't agree more. it is lovely to see dogs in the showring going round on a loose lead and nothing worse than a dog that is strung up and its front paws barely touching the ground. As you say, some dogs will never enjoy showing so why force them.

I too would take this dog out of showing for now and perhaps continue with ring craft but concentrate on her having fun and learning to associate the context with an enjoyable experience, the person who takes the ring craft should support you in this and not force things- if they do leave the club. You could also perhaps attend some fun shows or open shows that would allow you to take her in NFC- again let her learn to enjoy proximity to other dogs, once she learns to relax then you can go back to trying to actually show her. It sounds as though she was perhaps poorly socialised as a pup or innately nervy. Either way, helping her to adapt and learn about other dogs is of most importance for her long term welfare as well as your comfort in owning her as a pet, much more so than winning shows.

Good luck with her, please let us know how you progress.

> I couldn't agree more. it is lovely to see dogs in the showring going round on a loose lead and nothing worse than a dog that is strung up and its front paws barely touching the ground. As you say, some dogs will never enjoy showing so why force them

I do wish the KC would clamp down on these handlers who show dogs strung up like this.  The bitch I mentioned must weigh 30 + kg and to be literally carried / dragged while audibly choking is plain cruel and actions like this should be treated as abuse. 

To the OP good luck with your young girl.  Above all make it fun for her, and you. 

> I do wish the KC would clamp down on these handlers who show dogs strung up like this

Does anyone else give feedback - a breeder, another handler etc?

I was taught by my breeder to hold the lead taut so that it doesn't flap and stays out of sight (in as much as that might be possible).  Someone else during ring craft recently, after watching my dog objectively, suggested a new way of holding it.  I suspect it helps enormously to watch oneself on video as you can't always accurately assess the overall picture without it.

It's a little different in every breed, and not everyone will get it right first time, or what works with one dog might not work with another.  Rather than 'clamping down' perhaps there ought to be a spirit of cooperation and mutual support so that feedback can be freely given.  I appreciate it can't really be the judge (on the day) but I don't see it as the KC's responsibility either.  It's certainly something that could be covered at ring craft...

> I appreciate it can't really be the judge (on the day) but I don't see it as the KC's responsibility either.

In this extreme it should be the KC's responsibility as complaints have been made about the handling of this bitch and others by the same person, this is abuse.  Having shown for over 40 years I and many others recognise the difference between holding a lead firm enough to stay level and literally lifting a dog weighing over 30 kg OFF the ground as it moves with a choke chain while the poor thing is visibly fighting and gagging for relief.  At one show it even sat down and tried to point blank move and it was dragged while sitting and whimpering with pain. Now video evidence has been taken to show the KC.

Just to get back to the OP's question, great advice from everyone, only suggestion I would add is try practising with the dog on the 'wrong' or 'other' side from normal, also do triangles etc back to front, and try different shapes.  Also run backwards talking to the dog etc.

You migh just find she has 'learnt' to show like that with her head and a change may bring her out of it

I have seen many dobe exhibitors stand the dog momentarily before they move , and hold their hand out infront of the dog ,or  one finger (titbit )and tell them 'Watch'. They teach the dog to lift their head naturally without too  much stringing up , but the pretty gold chains they use, are up behind the dogs ears .

As others have said, some dogs simply don't like showing, so that's always a possibility. Her fear of dogs probably makes the ring more stressful for her than for a more confident dog, so it's possible that she views showing as being put in a stressful situation at the moment.

My biggest suggestion, along with continuing to socialize, would be to work on making the ring more fun for her. Play games with her in the ring, have her do tricks if she knows any, etc. The more enjoyable you make showing for her, the happier she'll be in the ring.

For Crufts this year, I was given the task of getting a dog who absolutely hated the show ring to gait at least passably well. Her owner and a few other people had been showing her strung up to force her to gait and she had hit a point where she just wouldn't move at all. I took her to some shows for practice and use a combination of the most interesting food I could find and a loose lead to get her around the ring. Sure, the first few shows she looked like absolute rubbish, but eventually she caught on that the ring is fun and by the time we got to Crufts she was moving and playing with me in the ring. It takes a lot of time and patience, but the more fun you make the ring for her, the more she'll act like she enjoys it.

I agree that its all about playing with this reluctant dog.
If showing =stress =unhappy handler=unhappy dog..... then you have to break this cycle.

Play, play, play..... By the ring, in an empty ring, at ringcraft in fact anywhere and forget wanting to win with this one.Act as though theres only you and her and nobody else matters.
But sometimes nothing ( ethical) works.

Im in a breed where No Wag means No Win, I removed a bitch from showing because she still hated it after every game, toy, treat was deemed..boring!
She has turned out to be a very happy pet dog ( in my home) and has produced the best pups Ive ever bred....who show their socks off!!

I agree - give her a break, then just play with her and make her realise that shows are fun! I nearly over showed Henry chasing those JW points, but after a couple of months off he was fine again. I never showed him that heavily again and he was a mad waggy lunatic in the ring right through to his Veteran year. My current veteran bitch is the same!

> She would put her head down, and drag her feet round the ring so I retired her

>Thank goodness for her she had you as an owner.

Showing is not a priority of mine. I enjoy it, and when I don't I look for the reason why. If the dog doesn't like it then I have no problem with retiring it. I have that bitches grandson and he lives for the showring ;-) I semi retired him this last year as he will be 10 in July but he was so miserable I brought him out for a show this month. He loved it so much I have entered him in another one next month. Oh, he was 2nd, behind the BOB, beaten several others much younger than him, so he still has 'it' :-)

Agree with not showing a dog that does not like the show ring. Showed my bitch twice and she hated it, though she is usually a happy friendly dog in the show ring she sunk to her haunches and generally behaved as if she was regularly beaten......!. Bred one litter from her and all  her kids have happy "showy" temperaments and the one that I kept even pulls herself up a notch as soon as she gets in the ring. Just think that some dogs are just not happy in the show ring and the best thing is to leave the at home.

i have had to retire a bitch of mine who hated the ring she is very young as well and she started dropping her tail, put her ears flat back and walked around the ring instead of trotting, the first time she did it i thought she was maybe unwell, that was on the saturday , on the sunday i took her to agility show as she showed no symptoms of being unwell, but when i took her to agility she was like a screaming banshee, bouncing around  flinging around such a different dog. the next weekend went to another breed show and she was flat again in the ring , made my decision there and then never to show her again, and with agility well she loves it and is so much happier.

Have a Golden Retriever who made a point of failing every obedience class she was entered in until she stopped showing. She always had fun in the show ring, but made it clear to myself and everyone outside the ring that she had no intentions of standing still and looking pretty (would make eye contact with the judge and immediately move feet, the only time she paced was in the ring, etc.). She was brilliant in ringcraft and training though, regardless of the situation we were training in. The once I promised her she would never be shown again, she never failed to qualify in another obedience class for as long as she was competing. Even if you make it fun for the dog, some of them just don't like it... and they will find a way to let you know.

i wouldnt says she dosent like it she dose because belive me if she up hated it she would make quite clear as she can be a little stubbron it im just looking for ideras for getting her head up 

can i ask when she does put her head down is she also licking her lips alot

Is her head carriage in the ring different/lower than it is when trotting naturally off lead.

A dog naturally moves with it's head out ahead, even though many people encourage/force their dogs to move unnaturally with their heads held high.

My biggest suggestion is to play, the the looser the lead you can show her on the better. If she makes a complete fool of herself (or you), let her. You can always work on fine-tuning what she's doing later, but for now, the more fun she has in training and in the ring the better. Most dogs have something that really makes them tick, whether it's food, a toy or another random object. For one of my dogs, it's lacrosse balls. Unless it's something really embarrassing, start using it in the ring to get her playing and thinking about having fun rather than where she is and what she's doing. As she gets more confident, start showing her the food/object less and less so that she begins working in anticipation of it with small play sessions in between.

hi brainless her head carrige is about the same only time she has it up high at home is when she is looking for the neighbours cat she used to have her head right down in the ring and sniff the ground she dosent to that any more she just hold it level now but i have noticed all the other dobies hold ther heads up high the only time she dose that is when she is looking for cats i have tried using the word pussy cats in the ring but that dosent work she just looks at me as if to say dont be stupied why would a cat be here

then it doesn't sound as if she is ring shy, that is just her natural posture when moving. 

Is it affecting her placements in the ring?  As said before it isn't natural for a dog to move with it's head high.

As an owner of a scent hunting breed tell em about dogs trying to move sniffing the ground, and because ours are only around 20 inches at the shoulder they can happily move with nose to ground. 

So training and bait (something more interesting than the ground scent) is the only way to teach them not to, still working on that with my 15 month old who snakes her neck from side to side trying to sneak her head back down!

well brain less i think it is affecting her placements in the ring as it the only diffrence i can see between her and the other is the ring am trying at the moment to teach her to put head up we will see how it goes

I hate to see dogs moving round the ring with their heads too high, it ruins the neck carriage and you lose the sweep of the neck running into the topline in a smooth powerful series of gentle curves. Unfortunately though there are judges that seem to like the highest point of the dog to be the nose, totally unnatural and it gives a dip at the withers and spoils the top line.