Hi everyone, i want to warn ALL breeders or people who have a pregnant or nursing mummy.. My little lady had a litter of beautiful puppies 5 weeks ago and friday i noticed she was really unwell :( she had the runs, was off her food ( which she loves!) and you could tell she was in pain by her poor little face. I led on the sofa to cuddle her and noticed whilst stroking her tummy she had a red, hot swollen breast. I took her to our vets that morning and she was diagnosed with mastitis and funny a fever. she was put on a 5 day course of anti biotics immediately and i was told to keep her puppies off her :( however by sunday night her breast had turned black!! Although she had her appetite back she was in pain and very unsettled. we were back at vets first thing monday morning as her breast had literally exploded and she had a gaping hole.. I had never even heard of this, and apparently it isnt that common... shes in vets still for second night running!! :(

sorry to hear about this - but you really should check your girl for signs on a regular basis... I use aloe vera on any hot spots and either encourage the pups to take milk from full teats or express some, as they often become too big for the pups... I've even put bigger pups on a smaller bitch (when I had two litters born the same day) to help stop this... early intervention usually prevents the horrid outcome you've got here.

Mastitis is quite common in nursing bitches.

If your vet told you to keep the puppies from nursing, he should also have given your bitch something to stop the milk production, and taught you to express the milk manually.

If you are breeding, you should have the knowledge to prevent situations like the one that happened to your bitch.

I'm very sorry for your poor bitch.

She had a breast go hard in early stages of feeding which we encouraged puppies to suckle and it softened! I knew of mastitis but not that it can turn so nasty! :( from seeing the vet friday the vet thought it was early stages and had been caught in time. It happened so quickly to turn nircrotic by sunday! However i think there are millions of people that arent aware of the severity of this,and yes i feel terribly guilty,shes my baby! However shes doing well and she should be home where she belongs tomorrow! The vet has said it isnt all that common to to nircrotic and they have had aggresive treatment transferred in for her as what they stocked for mastitis cases wasnt aggressive enough!

Also do anyone know when its ok to leave puppies on there own all night....?
I've been staying downstairs with them for 5 weeks now since they were born, first to make sure mum didn't squash any and to make sure they all suckled through the night as we had a 'runt' that was weaker than the rest. now i stay here cos they wake through the night hungrey and wet, maybe twice and i am exhausted :( but i'd feel guilty leaving them wet and hungrey ???

When my bitch had Mastitis at 10 days (came on in hours and it was boxing day) fortunately the Vet told me to keep pups on Mum, as they would avoid the poisoned breast, and she was on very strong antibiotics. 

Interestingly when I saw my own vet next day (had to see emergency vet initially) they showed me how to express the bad milk, and it was like tomato soup.

There have been a number of posts here about it going to the stage yours has, and a friend had it happen to a bitch who came into lactation when another bitch had a litter.  It is amazing how the wound heals, but it needs to be left open to do so.

At 5 weeks weaning the pups off is best but as your finding they will need feeding at night, giving them say 6 meals a day.

Thank you for your reply. i feed them every 4-5 hours (they're very demanding!) but they always wake twice through night around 2.30 and 4.30. people keep telling me they'll be ok til morning once i feed them last around 10.30 - 11pm but i feel so guilty especially as mum isn't around for them now, and i hate to think of them wet,hungrey and needing hugs :( so i think i'll stay with down all night until atleast weekend then maybe try........

My little baby girl is home today, but back for check up at vets friday to see how things are. Shes really happy in herself considering and even wanted to play ball... which i had to tell her no. Bless her. Shes on 5 different meds a day that all have to be taken at different times,and i have to bathe the wound 4-5 times a day with warm salty water, which she found uncomfortable at first but it's easing up.

I think the head collar is annoying her more :( however the wound still looks nasty but loads better than two days ago so i'm hoping it really wont take too long to heal.

I've read about people saying it's really common, mastitis YES, nircrotic mastitis NO. Our vet have only ever seen 1 case in her whole 9 years of being a vet and she told me it wasn't a happy outcome. Its severly dangerous and potentially life threatening!

Needless to say my baby girl is booked in to be speyed 23rd July.
I've been assured it isn't my fault but i am her owner and will forever feel guilty regardless of what pain she could feel. I'm suppose to make things better like a mother to a child.   :(

Without Mum they will need night feeds.

What until they're 8 weeks old?

Probably be Ok by 6 to 7 weeks, a lot depends on size, maturity often based on breed.  You really ahve to play ti by ear.

>I've read about people saying it's really common, mastitis YES, nircrotic mastitis NO. Our vet have only ever seen 1 case in her whole 9 years of being a vet and she told me it wasn't a happy outcome.

Necrotic mastitis has been discussed on the forum quite a few times, although most folk have had a successful outcome.  It sounds as if your vet hasn't dealt with many breeders if she has only seen one case in all that amount of time.  And as she says it wasn't a happy outcome, I guess the bitch died, but that is certainly not the normal experience. 

It's a shame that your bitch has the frustration of a collar, I find that mine respond to the command leave, which negates the
need!  :-)

She's doing really well bless her. It's amzing how quickly the wound is healing and she's alot happier in herself. The only sad thing is she crys to be with her puppies. They're now in a seperate room from her and have been since she came home yesterday,but when she hears them cry or bark, it's heartbreaking.

Hi,
I have seen this in a friends cat, one day fine, I went to see her and saw the huge open wound where the mastitis had burst. We took her to the vet on the sunday night and she got antibiotics and recobvered well.
I am not a breeder but reading alot on this site, Could you put a T shirt on her so that the pups cant get to the nipples, and let her back in with them for comfort (making sure the pups cant get to the nipples at all???)
Good Luck
Lea :)

>They're now in a seperate room from her and have been since she came home yesterday,but when she hears them cry or bark, it's heartbreaking.

This is cruel.  I will be totally honest - I would be removing that collar and letting her be a mum.  It is not natural to keep her apart from her pups.  Many of us have allowed pups to suckle on a bitch with mastitis.  A light covering over her affected area should suffice.  Pups do seem to avoid infected teats anyway.  Your bitch must be distraught.  I can't believe that vets with no breeding experience at all can guide folk on this one.

JeanSW could it be the meds she is on???
I think I read she was on 5 different meds, so if they are not good for the pups then thats why the vet will have said keep them off her. But covering the teats will sort that problem out.

I dont think its fair to make the OP feel bad because she is doing what the vet has told Her (you may not have meant it to make her feel bad, but thats how I read it x)
Lea :)

The vet advised me to keep her away from pups, in a completely different room as even the crying can make her start producing milk again.
She's currently on, two different antibiotics (one which is extremely aggresive) she's on a pain relief,and another med to help dry her milk up to risk other mamary glands becoming infected. I asked her if i could put a t-shirt on her so neither of them had to miss out or feel punished but i was told she isn't allowed contact mainly because she don't want her producing milk and not to cover her at all just let it completely dry up.

The puppies are doing fine, they're completely happy,healthy and weaned onto puppy food and water, its just when i have them out at feed times mum and hear them and crys.... :(

Very sad but i have to do whats best for her and hopefully she will be all healed up by the time they go to there new homes (2 weeks tomorrow) and will be able to interact with them fully............

No idea about dogs but thinking about humans you should be advised to feed on the breast to relieve the blockage and reduce the swelling pain etc.Possible given antibiotics too Having suffered from the beginning of mastitis and continued to feed i can say it does work. My mother had the same happen to her when I was born and was told not to feed me. She landed up in hospital with a similar problem to your bitch. Sounds like the vet isnt that experienced with lactating bitches.Hoping it will all go well for her now
Is this the usual treatment then for bitches ?

years ago i knew of a bitch that died as a result of having mastitis.

My bitch had severe gangrene mastitis, it came on in a matter of an hour and in front of my eyes.  She went lethargic and from having no obvious problem one quadrant started to swell and go bright red. i applied hot compress and tried to strip it out but she was going down fast. When I took her temperature was 104 and she was in state of collape after the 10 minute drive to my vet.

I have seen mastitis before but nothing like this .. It was horrific.  After a week on IV antibiotics at the vet we brought her home. She was still very sick and not eating well, she required radical mastectomy but this could not be under taken until the body had closed off the gangrenous tissue fully. It was horrendous watching her rot in front of my eyes.

When we brought home I applied non adherent dressings to open necrotic tissue and wrapped towels round her like a cummerbund.  We then put one t shirt over her front and one over her rear and pinned them together. This kept her undercarriage covered and we let her go into the pups. She was still very sick but so much more settled being able to mother her pups even if she couldnt  feed them. Her depression lifted desipe being so poorly and she started eating. Two weeks later the mastectomy was completed and was a total success, she bounced out of the vets post op and hasn't stopped bouncing since. I am however sure that being back with her pups gave her the will to survive

Klb, it sounds like your bitch had necrotizing fasciitis (flesh eating disease). You were very lucky that she survived.

This bitch seems like she had a case of cellulitis that was misdiagnosed and wasn't treated properly by the vet the first time. I just find it a bit mind boggling that if the bitch wasn't getting better, she didn't go back to the vet sooner, or go somewhere for a second opinion. Specially when the breast turned black on Sunday night, I would have taken her to a vet immediately. She could have died of sepsis overnight.

No this was a type of mastitis, caused by very aggressive anaerobic bacteria. Thankfully relatively rare in dogs but not so in dairy cattle where it is seen more frequently.

The mastitis comes on very fast, quadrent swells and become hot and tense as in ordinary mastitis. Pup would not suckle off the teat and hand stripping had no effect. Bacterial infection escalates very quickly and rapidly produces systemic sepsis. The  body responds by shutting down blood supply to quadrent to limit spread of infection hence the rapid onset of gangrene. ( quardrent goes dusky then black then starts to ulcerate and die )  Only when the body has effectively isolated infection, and demarcation occurs, can surgery be undertaken to remove necrotic tissue. This is not at all the same as a mastitis that has cause abscesses with open drainage.

It is truely horrific and I hope no one has to experience it .... I was heartbroken and sick with worry for my bitch and had 11 two week old pups to feed so had to hold it together. Fortunately my vet did a wonderful job and my precious girl made a full recovery and all the pups did extremely well on the bottle.

what an awful story so pleased she made a good recovery

Lea
I am not trying to make anyone feel bad.  I was genuinely concerned about the psychological effect on the bitch.  I will never forget having a bitch pine for her only puppy, which only lived a couple of hours.  The distress that bitches feel is very real.

Chillington,

You should be a vet!!! You seem to think you know so much more than one!

It happened so so fast. I rang emergency out of hours vet on sunday and they told me that Mastitis could be anything from red,purple/black and as she was eating and drinking and her temp was ok to carry on with her antibiotics. Which obviously when it burst monday morning she was straight in vet.
Although she had to stay in for two nights to go on a drip and have aggresive antibiotics to ensure it wouldn't spread, otherwise she'd have a massive fight on her hands she never lost her bouncyness nor her appetite which in her case was fantastic. In fact she was happier once it had burst, it must of been such a relief from pressure.

However, she's doing amazing. She saw her vet yesterday,which i may add we're very happy with,and it's healing incredably well.
She have seen her puppies now and doesn't seem so stressed. Her milk have dried up really quick too due to the medication she's on! And she's putting weight back on every day :)

Unfortunately the head collar has to stay until the wound has healed completely! :(
She doesn't seem to bothered by it now, think she knows it has to stay for now.

Thats really great news :) :)
Really pleased she is getting better :) :)
Lea :)

Thanks honey! :)
She is doing amazing. I think she's forgot she's still getting better as she wants to go walkies,play ball etc :)
Bless her xx

Dogs are amazing.
I have had 2 dogs spayed, and both were running around the day later.
Where as I have had a hysterectomy and only just thinking I might be able to go out jogging nearly 6 weeks on, and still wouldnt be able to hurdle like I could do pre op, where as 2 days after spaying Ebba decided she would jump the 3' fence that seperated part of my garden!!!!
Hope the pups are thriving :)
Lea :)

Have you got Intrasite gel for the hole? That is THE best treatment I have ever found for deep wounds, as it helps to heal them from the inside and out thus preventing infection. It is also non prescription. I had a bitch who had a mammary abscess that burst. The teat was hanging on a thin piece of skin. Vet said let her stay with pups so she did, they even suckled from that bad teat, no problems -the hole healed very quickly with Intrasite and we had no problems whatsoever. You squeeze the Intrasite into the wound. I even have photos of how bad it looked, the hole could have fitted a golfball inside. Years later I had a dog with a bad bite wound, the stitches burst, whatever the vet didn't work, so again I used Intrasite and within days it had started to heal where everything else had failed. I will never be without it at home for emergencies.

The puppies are doing extremely well. No i'm not using any gel however that does sound like good stuff.
although i don't know if it's worth using now as she has the tiniest hole left where it has basically healed completely inside.
The hole was really nasty, you could of fitted a babys fist in there! Amazing how fast it's healing :)

LadyLou, thank you for the suggestion, but I'm quite happy with my profession.

But regarding your affirmations, you don't need to be a vet to know that tissue turning black means that it's loosing the blood supply and dying. If the vet told you that it's normal for it to turn black, I (and a lot of people) definetly now more than him.

They are fully trained and qualified vets they obviously know what they're talking about.

Vets don't know everything; more than most people, certainly, but even they will refer to specialists, just as your own GP will. Most vets have never witnessed a natural canine birth, for example ...

All vets are fully trained and qualified, or they'd not be permitted to practise.

There are vets and there are vets - some are better than others and I've seen some diabolical ones in my time. Like human doctors, they are quite capable of getting things wrong!

Yes they are human, we can all get it wrong. Our vet is very good and to be honest we are happy with him.
If we had any doubt at all that he wasn't capable we would take our business elsewhere,which we had done before.
My two girls and our cat always see's the same vet, he also helped my other girl deliver a puppy before she had to have c section ( so he's seen that too!)

Our pets come first and if i was never happy i would front it out with them.
Like owners, i ask lots of questions, and they always seem to answer them. I also tend to do as told by vets as it has the best interest of my pets.

very interesting about the intrasite gel. i have that in my cupboard and have never thought of using it on wounds ... but will now, thanks :)

Have you ever used it on hot spots just out of interest.....seeing as rotts do love a hotspot lol

>Most vets have never witnessed a natural canine birth, for example ...

Totally true!

I had a bitch in labour a couple of years ago, and was concerned that things seemed to be going slow.  Popped in to see if a vet was free to see my bitch, and as she held her tail up to examine her, the water sac appeared!

I asked if they had a room free so that I could deliver my litter (they are used to breeders), and they brought me large pads and towels, as I prefer to be on the floor with my bitches.

The vet stood in the doorway oohing and ahhing, as she had never delivered a litter (other than by section.)  She was so excited!

whinned of pups but mum has 1 large lumpy breast ?

This is an old thread u .may be  better starting a new one . In the mean while if u are concerned maybe a vet check

Have a bitch with pups 7 days old . Tonight I noticed her temp was high 40.5 tho she has been eating and drinking all day .Also been having sardinnes/sunflower oil. Called Vet and she is worried could be mastitis her milk from each breast is white and even if slightly touch milk is leaking loads .Could it be that temp is high due to carrying lots of milk. But her breasts are roasting hot no discharge or any redness .
I'm really worried its her first and last litter .Since Christmas day vet call out is £180 I don't mind paying that at all but worried to take there advice and leave her til morning .

temperature up to 40'C would be OK, are you using a lot of heat?

Is she listless?  Has she plenty of water? are pups happy?

She is eating some cold cuts and drinking plenty .Pups are feeding and sleeping no whining all can hear is there lips smacking when feeding  . Her under carriage where teats are tho are roasting  .I'm not using any heat as she chooses to be in my son's room which is quite a cosy room she is in whelping box there .Thanks

I would keep a very close eye on her temperature, temp her 4x a day.  After whelping a bitch's temperature is higher than usual, but it should not be more than about 38-39.3C (100.5-102.9F). 

Make sure you are using a reliable thermometer.  Many are not as reliable as ideally we want them to be, so it might be an idea to find a pharmacy that's open and pick up at least one more - two, if they have different brands.  Compare the temps to check.

It's very normal for mums to be very hot around there, after having had pups.  They are radiators for their puppies who can't regulate their own temperature yet.  The room temperature should be around 22C, and it's good to have a wall thermometer or similar hanging on the outside of the box to monitor that.

For mastitis, you are looking for specifically hardening of the breasts, wrinkly breasts, solid-feeling breasts.  It's more than that they are just warm.  Although her body temperature could be an early indication.

If you want to ward off mastitis:  Put the strongest feeding pups on the breasts you are worried about, as they will help keep them flowing. 

In addition, supplementing the bitch with sunflower lecithin works well too for preventing mastitis - there's some research behind that.  For a 21kg bitch, a tablespoon twice a day.  Adjust up or down as you need - it's not a fine art, but a rough approximation.  You can get sunflower lecithin from health food stores or online.

Very interesting to read about th e sunflower lethicin. Do you give as a prevention or as a treatment? There are liquids and powders, which brand do you use? We’ve usually prevented mastitis developing by putting strong feeders onto swollen breasts but would like to have methods to hand in case it ever became a problem.

>Do you give as a prevention or as a treatment?

I would give it at the first sign of anything I was worried about.  Or, if you're worried, preventatively. 

>There are liquids and powders, which brand do you use?

I use this one:  https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0130OL0ZQ/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Here you go: 

https://www.healthline.com/health/parenting/lecithin-breast-feeding#2

https://kellymom.com/nutrition/vitamins/lecithin/

I should add that I learnt this as an Avidog breeder, this and way more useful information, is covered in the Avidog A-Z course.

Excellent. It’s great to keep getting more tips. Always learning.