This morning I was walking my border terrier past a childrens play area to a footpath leading to the fields, when a large black & white pit bull type dog appeared at the top of the footpath blocking my way. It looked back down the path & another one joined it. They took one look at my girl who was on her lead, and flew at her. I didn't know what on earth to do. I carry a pet corrector and pepper on walks but I had no chance to use it. In all the confusion I managed to get my dog by almost strangling the poor thing by which time their owner appeared and called them off. She was very apologetic but as I said, they should be muzzled if off leads. I left and a few minutes latter I started shaking and felt as tho I was going to be sick. A friend happened to phone me, said I should ring the police, so I did. They said they would send a car and try to find the dogs but I haven't heard anything.
The thing thats really scaring me, the thought of meeting them again, they could so easily have killed my girl. She's the most inoffensive little dog and will never stand up for herself, not that she stood a chance with those two. Can anyone advise if there is any product that I could carry. Someone suggested a pepper spray but I've a feeling you can't get it in this country. Or indeed what is the best thing to do in this situation ?. I've since been told these two dogs are known to be dog aggresive. Is this the penalty of having a small dog.
Forgive me for rambling but I'm so upset by today.

If you didn't have time to use your pet corrector spray then it would probably be the same for a pepper one (even if it was legal here). I really feel for you, it must take the fun right out of a walk worrying your dog might get set upon. I was going to suggest a sturdy harness so you can pick your dog up quickly without hurting her and a stick to fend off the attacking dogs but really if I felt measures like that were needed I would probably try and find somewhere else to walk.
Sorry not very helpful was I? :(

What a frightening experience, no wonder you are upset.  I don't think there is anything that you can "arm" yourself with that would be effective even if you did have the time and presence of mind to use it. 
I think your best course of action is to continue to press the police to do something about getting these dogs away from the public or muzzled.  You say you have heard more about them which suggests local people might know who they are so perhaps if you could find out as much as you can to pass on to the police it will make it easier for them to act. 

i know excatly how you feel,  had an incident the other day too with two rotties(to be fair they didnt actually do anything) but i had my small breed and my 5yo on the park with me ....two massive dogs come round the corner and kinda stop dead staring at me(i have twice been attacked by this breed so i know how they go)
anyway no owner in sight...i grab my moo and shout j over to me convinced weve had it when a man comes round the corner...i shout over "can he put his dogs on a lead..im scared" and he says they wont do anything...i say im scared ov them! and he replys its a public park he can do what he likes!!
what a total to**er! it was only after i noticed he didnt even have a lead to put them on!
                                                            emma x

I have no advice -  all sensible reasoning goes to pot when ones dog is attacked - just feel for you.
Unfortunately having been in similar circumstances, sadly find myself steering clear of unknown dogs, head for places that aren't popular & can see people coming. Did carry a stick for some months after one incident but haven't taken it with me for a long time, though it's still by the back door.
Do follow through with the police, though I'll be surprised if they do anything. No it's got nothing to do with owning a small dog, larger ones suffer too.
Take care.

Thanks for your quick replies. It does help to "talk". I do intend to keep checking with police. After all if children were playing there and had a small dog with them, its likely they would have picked up their dog. I shudder to think what would then have happened. Bad enough for this old pensioner.
If these two dogs are of pitbull type, and I'm sure they are, then are they not illegal, in being out without muzzles and free running. For that reason alone the police should act & at least caution the owner.
Its going to take me a long time to get over this.
Thanks again for letting me rant.

I do know how scary it can be... mine was attacked several times when a puppy, once by an American Bulldog whose owner claimed my (5mth) puppy started it (! yeah right!) no lasting damage apart from psychological.... but he didn't have a lead for it, was a stranger to my local park and ooooh.... how funny, his dog was 100 yds away, but when I stopped to pick up a poo all of a sudden his dog was on mine and there was a scrap going on. When he drove away I wrote down his car reg to reprt to the dog warden, he stopped the car and came back to ask what the Eff I was doing and threatened me!

These days if an off-lead dog comes charging up to my on-lead dog, I give it a very stern and strong verbal warning - usually that plus my body language (probably my dog's as well) seems to stop them in their tracks... and where I live now, owners are astute enough to take heed. But that wasn't the case where my lad grew up, so I really can sympathise... Hope your dog isn't too upset, and you have calmed down a bit. Might be a good idea to take a camera phone with you - or at least your dog warden's number plumbed into your phone -  s/he might even recognise the dog and have a word with the owner on keeping their dog under control.

Can empathise too...
Had two little terrier crosses (jack russell types) run up, snarling and snapping, at my two Staffords the other day.  They'd escaped from their garden and decided to terrorise all the neighbourhood dogs!  Being as there wasn't a huge difference in size between my dogs and the two escapees I didn't want to stick the boot in, so just gave a grrrr and told them to clear off.  Very thankful that they were smaller dogs and not some of the HUGE dogs that live nearby.
They didn't want to give up easily that's for sure, but I just kept walking and thankfully after around 5-6 minutes of attempting to bite at my male dogs face, they gave up and ran off... gets the adrenalin pumping that's for sure.

Someone once advised me to let my dog loose if she was attacked so she could defend herself or run away,but I never have,as who knows what might happen.Your scared dog might take to the hills!I once had a pack of 5 boxers bellowing at my 3 on lead dogs from behind a hedge and one came through and ran after us.I turned  and faced it and snarled"p---s off!! (me,a granny!)and thankfully,it did!Shakes one up!

similar thing happened to me whilst my two dogs were on the lead, we met a woman with her Rottie, the Rottie was on the lead but snarling he pulled the owner over to my two dogs, i got knowcked over in the process. i went to a lot of trouble to find out who this woman was her name and adress, the police then went to her dooor and told her she must keep her dog under control in future. point is what should the next step be, i say muzzle, as she had NO control. next time if a child is involved the police will be looking pretty silly having been informed about this dog. the police said it is the PF that puts a control order on dog.

should have added that i now carry a Dazzer 11 and also a bites bac spray. both legal. no hesitation in using either of these if similar thig happened again. if  a dog is aggressive it should be muzzles in public. imho

So sorry that happened to you peanut, it's a scenerio we all dread today, you saved your girl from harm thank goodness, but I guess the fear is there now very hard to shake. {{{hug}}}

Tadog, the dazzer 11, is that the one that sends the ultra sonic signal that only the dog it is aimed at can hear? And have you ever tried it, does it actually work? If it does I'd get one of those peanut, it will work just like the shouting has when others have stood up to a dog.

Mind you depends on how keen a dog is to get to another but a quick startle whether from a voice or potentially from something like that shocks a dog for a minute and knocks it off guard.

I hope that the police and dog warden can do something too.

I do feel for you and all owners of small dogs who must feel very vunerable with bigger dogs around. I have large dogs, and on the whole have no problems however I do find myself being very vigilant with dogs I do not know, my girlies are not a danger to anyone or any dog and are absolultly non aggressive. However I worry about other dogs, many a strange dog has started out saying hello to mine only to suddenly snap, the owners then usually laugh and tell me he doesn't like black/big/hairy/ dogs, or the "well he has never doen that before" scenario... I also hate those who's dogs run across the fields to mine when I do not know them, mine don't do it and it worries me that the owners are so far away if anything kicked of. Luckily so far mine have never retaliated to an attack, but they have been attacked and I worry that one day one of them will give back, then it will be my fault for having BIG dogs !
No matter the size of your dog we all suffer one way or another from idiot owners.
Keep at it, as far as I know a dog only has to frighten you for the police to act.
Aileen

as far as I know a dog only has to frighten you for the police to act.

depends on what you mean by act? going to a persons door and saying 'keep your dog under control' is going to help no one.

i have large and small dogs and none of them give off any non friendly signs. I know with the dog that attacked mine, from speaking to others it was not the first time, owners must react and report otherwise nothing will change.

I might be reading it wrong but...I can't see that the dogs actually did anything wrong other than being THAT breed? OK, so they were off-lead when they should have been under control but if that had been a pair of Lhaso's running up, would you have been as frightened?  I think if this pair of dogs wanted to do anything aggressively, you wouldn't have a dog left to tell us about(not that I'm excusing that).  Are you sure this wasn't just two dominant dogs wanting to meet yours and you are just a bit 'apprehensive' of the breed?
Same with Maisiesmammy and the rotties.  They did nothing other than look in your direction.  Sounds to me like even though they were off-lead, the owner had control?
This to me sounds a bit like a deed not breed thing.

PS I am not particularly keen on that type of breed either but I do judge each dog for how he acts.

My frenchie got bitten in pah the other day, poodle owner said he was fine. My Pablo never started anything and he's a right mess. No shows for us for a few months, had to be shaved completely on his shoulder. Weeping Liszt horrid wound that wasn't even a puncture, he was very much in pain and I have a vets bill. I have taken my receipt and my picture of his injury to the manager at pah but I don't think anything will come of it. Unless I meet her in there o f course! I couldn't take him in as he can't wear a collar the infection has caused a sizeable patch of wet eczema. I now never socialize with dogs I don't know.

What a horrible experience. Not a problem having a small dog, because most probably they would have done the same to a bigger dog too. An owner with a bigger dog wouldn't have been able to pick their dog up. Best course of action would be to keep on at the Police. The woman should most definitely not have had them off lead if they are dog aggressive, or at the very least have them muzzled.

I also hate those who's dogs run across the fields to mine when I do not know them, mine don't do it and it worries me that the owners are so far away if anything kicked of

Same here. I have had two Jack Russells come out from their open gate straight onto the park I use. The owner wasn't even aware that he had left the gate open. I had to grab my puppy and then try to stop them attacking the rest of my dogs. Mine are now wary of Jack Russells, but can you imagine what the owner would say if mine had a go at their 'small' Jack Russell. Luckily there are nice Jack Russells around and mine play with at least one.

Cracar,
Whatever the rationalisation the point is unless a dog can be taught to walk tightly to heel, no matter what distraction, then they should not be offlead in an area that is not the park, running ahead of their owner to 'fly' at another dog that is on lead. That is poor dog management...surely? Naturally the owner probably would not have been as worried if the other dogs were Lhasos because they would be of a similar size and weight to her own dog. The big risk for all dog owners is dogs of very different size and weight getting into potentially confrontational situations- plus these types of dog (Staff/pitbull) are not that great at reading appeasement/back off signals from other dogs. Whatever way you look at it the other owner was totally in the wrong. She could not see what her dogs were doing, she did not have them under control and they were allowed to 'fly' at another dog that was on lead in an area not the park/field. I think if you own a pugilistic breed you have a greater responsibility to keep your dog under control at all times- just as you should if you know your dog to be dog aggressive.

thats a really good point merlot :)
cracar my issue wasnt with the breed more the owner and thier handling...if you are the owner ov a big dominent breed dog u need to take more than average care! you may know your dog inside out but me as someone using the park with my children doesnt....just like that man didnt know i have been attacked twice by his breed! the fact is these dogs ARE more likely to show/ be aggressive... and generally where i live aggressive behaviour is encouraged weather for protection or show....anyway i do find it scary...not the dogs the handlers
                                                                  emma x

I understand that Freelancerukuk, but all I was meaning was I thought it was a very sad day when yet another thread is being started on the pitbull types attacking.  I just wanted to say that these dogs didn't do anything worse than most dogs do.  Maybe a little rougher but it wasn't an attack , as I read it.  We seem to be all for the deed not breed campain then are straight on the band wagon to put down these breeds for doing nothing more than a normal dog would.  My dogs would be able to meet and greet other dogs(in appropriate locations and when other dogs are off-lead also) and would seem to rush some dogs but with no ill will.  I just think it's a bad day when we can't socialise our dogs with each other without the need for pepper sprays and the likes.  I do stand up for my dogs if need be but it's never been a bull breed.  Sammys and collies, yup, but no bull breeds.

Reminds me of an old lady who was so paranoid when walking that she would throw her little poodle into any nearby gardens to keep other dogs away.  I always thought this strange and that little dog grew up to be so terrified of any dogs that aggression was always his first defence.  Such a shame as he wasn't like that in the beginning, just conditioned that way to believe all dogs were awful(like the owner thought).  And maybe getting launched into strange gardens didn't help!lol.

Poor you, I bet you are very shaken :(

> Can anyone advise if there is any product that I could carry.

If dogs are serious in thier attack then is is not much that could be done to ward them off, hitting is not going to do much unless you can hit with such force that you will disable the attacking dog.
A sturdy stick may be a good idea though, if a dog manages to clamp it's jaws on your dog you can use the stick to force the jaw open.
If this happens agin, I know it's not easy to do, but stay calm. The worst thing you can do if a dog clamps it's jaws on your dog is to pull them apart, you need to wait for a break in the bite or to force a break in the bite (ie, force the dogs mouth open).
Having an action plan in mind can help you stay calm when needed. If dogs are fighting, then try to move them to a barrier that can be used to keep them apart (fence/tree/door/gate).

If dogs approach in a manner that worries you, be stern & calm. I usually say "oi, be gentle", allthough I don't expect the other dog to know what I mean, I know that Buster knows this as a command to keep himself undercontroll and if I say it sternly but calmly, he also knows I am not frightend and that I feel in control (he's the sort of dog that will take over a situation if I do not come accross as confidant), this has worked for me on several occasions 2 I remeber the most are 2 different labs that appraoched in a very unfriednly manner - it lets them know that there is a human around that is not frightened of them.
Another thing - if a dog is appraoching in a way that worries you, you can walk infront of your dog, or get it to turn side-ways on to the other dog as breaking eye contanct may help.

Recently Buster met his best buddy, a rottie. As usual the rottie repeatedly jumped at us like superman so I had had little chance of keeping Buster under threshold (he gets very excited about the rottie).
Time and time again, I managed to use Busters halti to re-direct him from humping the rottie, but the last attempt I wasn't quick enough and he got a grip with  his front legs. Rottie was NOT impressed and sounded like he was trying to kill Buster as he kept trying to 'bite' Busters thoat. I felt the panick shoot up in my heart like a volcano, all I could see flash through my mind was what if Buster looses his rag, the poor little rottie would be minced meat (rottie looks small next to Buster), but knew I HAD to keep calm.
I turned in circles, trying to keep Busters front end up in the air (Buster is 4 stone heavier than me!) while the rottie owner pulled and pulled with all his might to drag his dog away. Buster never changed his attitude, he was not bothered by the horredndous sounding telling off from the rottie, he was happy to see his buddy and wanted to hump him. When we finally managed to seperate them, they had a short time-out and then had another little play (Buster didn't have a scratch on him, the rottie was just trying to tell Buster to pack it in). But oh my word, how flipping frightening was that!!! I am sure that if I panicked, Buster would have picked up on that and we could have had major trouble on our hands.
When I got home I was shaking like a leaf, I don't know how my legs managed to get me home and keeping calm drained the life out of me!

Keeping calm can help so much, but it is not easy to do.

After all my waffle, I would try to avoid that route if possible. It must be very frightneing having the thought of that in your mind.

> We seem to be all for the deed not breed campain then are straight on the band wagon to put down these breeds for doing nothing more than a normal dog would.

I don't think they need to be PTS and they dont' seem dangerously agreesive, but that is not the point. The more macho a dog looks the more chance there is of it frightening somebody, also the more rough a dog naturally is, the more chance there is of it frightneing another dog or causing a fight that need not have happened if the dogs have been kept under controll during thier initial meeting.

My dog is a friednly lump with loads of patience, but he is big, clumsy and too rough to be left to barge up to other dogs without me keeping him under controll. He could injure another dog just by trying to sniff it (he has a tendancy to poke with his nose and can easily send a staffy flying with one little nose-poke that only intended to investigate).
I do strongly beleive in deed not breed, but owners of more macho/rough dogs must understand the possible imact the mere prescence of thier dog can have on other people & other dogs.

> plus these types of dog (Staff/pitbull) are not that great at reading appeasement/back off signals from other dogs.>

Ahem... you must have missed my post freelanceruk :)

ML,

Spot on as ever. I am afraid that so long as we have very much larger and very much smaller dogs inhabiting the same space, then perception as well as reality must be considered by us all. We all need to consider each other and it is not enough to say my dog is just being a dog- dogs have been bred to do different things and have different behavioural thresholds and drives. My Saluki is exhibiting entirely 'natural/normal' Saluki behaviour if she chases and kills your cat but that does not exonerate me as her owner. Likelihood is if I have chosen to own a very high prey drive dog I probably cannot let her off and I would have to be very careful around even other small dogs (I adore Salukis BTW).

With so many different breeds trying to rub along together sometimes in quite small spaces I think the pressures on ownership are possibly greater than they have ever been. I think we have to accept that all of us probably need to monitor our dogs more than we used to. For those of us that own trigger-happy-looking-for-trouble small terrier breeds the same applies.

TT,

Sorry, one should never generalise but to a degree I stand by my point. I do accept though that pure bred Staffs have probably been selectively bred away from those traits. However, my point is really not so much about the dog but the right match between owner and dog and that owners are aware of what their dog MIGHT be capable of. A well-bred well- trained staff is a delight. I always say the irony is there are very few breeds you could trust to walk to heel, offlead on a busy London street.

I'm on your side Maisysmummy, if you told the man you were scared and asked him to put the dogs on lead, he should have done so, whether or not there was any actualy danger. I think the DDA refers to the person feeling threatened by the dog, whether or not there was an attack.

I have to say, even when I had Celeste and Spud ( both SBT's ) who were both fine round other dogs, quite capable of saying a polite "hello " then going on their way, I always made a point of either leashing them or having both walk close at heel when ever another dog came close.
I saw it as my responsibility to employ the utmost care round other dogs and owners to show the good side of the breed, and to at least try to change peoples perceptions of them.

> I'm on your side Maisysmummy, if you told the man you were scared and asked him to put the dogs on lead, he should have done so, whether or not there was any actualy danger. I think the DDA refers to the person feeling threatened by the dog, whether or not there was an attack.

Definately.

The following is taken from here

"2. If a dog is dangerously out of control in a public place, or a private place where it is not permitted to be, the owner; and if different, the person for the time being in charge of the dog, is guilty of an offence.


"A dog shall be regarded as dangerously out of control on any occasion on which there are grounds for reasonable apprehension that it will injure any person, whether or not it actually does so."

In the case of Briscoe -v- Shattock QBD 12 October 1998 it was held that a dog could be considered "dangerous" and "not kept under proper control" within the meaning of Section 2 of the Dogs Act 1871, even if the only danger shown was to other dogs, and not to humans. Being dangerous reflected the dog's disposition not his acts."

2 loose, large dogs, stood still staring at a person, IMO gives 'reasonable apprehension', especially when the owner refuses to leash them.

Celli,

Again, I want to clarify I am not suggesting that SBT's are not capable of polite hellos etc.. I think there are two points one is that like Labs they can be quite rambunctious and, if you like, overly familiar getting into the faces of other dogs, being quite boisterous- but all meant in a friendly way. However, some dogs may be more aloof by nature and more sensitive and feel uncomfortable, but the SBT or Lab does not read the signals, they carry on. At this point perhaps the other dog snaps defensively or tries to get away giving off stressy vibes. The Lab may back off, ditto the staff but equally that terrier bit of the SBT type may come to the fore and there can then be trouble. I've heard so many SBT people say' he won't start anything, but he will finish it'.

As I said, on the plus side SBT's, like Labs, are often more biddable than many other breeds and very sensitive to human body language and can be extremely obedient, in comparison to other small terrier types that once they lock on will not give up and are quite prone to go deaf on their owner when it suits them. That said, if an SBT really loses it obviously it is a problem, purely because of jaw strength and terrier tenacity that comes to the fore under provocation.

I think the same dictum applies to all us dog owners- know what your dog MIGHT be capable of and ensure you always have control and read the signals between dogs. With so many different types and sizes we simply cannot leave it to dogs to sort out between them.

> I think the same dictum applies to all us dog owners- know what your dog MIGHT be capable of and ensure you always have control and read the signals between dogs. With so many different types and sizes we simply cannot leave it to dogs to sort out between them.

Well said.  My guys are a mix of types and behaviour (and behavioural issues) but I am aware not only that they are all considered large by most people, so that alone can be intimidating to both people and dogs (more so as I walk 4 at once), but also of their individual personalities and as such, I make sure they are under control and well behaved, and take steps to manage them depending on the type of dog we come across, or people looking worried, so on and so forth.  It's part and parcel of having big dogs (well, any dogs but big ones more so I think).

Again thank you all for your replies. Perhaps I should clarify what happened again for cracar!. These dogs were at the begining of attack, the reason my girl came out of it was because the owner, hearing all the noise ,ran into the area and called the dogs off. I have no doubt at all had she not, my dog would have been seriously injured. My fear was the difference in size, they could have killed my girl in a flash.
I have gone out of my way to socialise and train my dog, and I'm proud of how obediant she is at 2yrs old. Indeed I've had comments about her obediance from other walkers. She is actually quite a timid girl. When approached by bigger dogs she usually sits down and thats what she did yesterday.
I'm not after these dogs being put down or anything, I just want the owner spoken to, by an official, so that they are kept on leads and or muzzled when out in public. I've noticed a lot how the owners of dogs that show aggession or any bad behaviour never seem to repremand them, and I don't mean hit them. These people either ignore it or blame the other dog. Incredible.
Freelander: you hit the nail on the head re the size of dogs, thank you.
Dogs are seldom born bad, ignorant owners make them that way.
Ps: I've heard not a thing from the Police !. But I am determined not to let it fizzle out.
Tadog: Where do you get your bites back and Dazzer11.?

Hmmmm I'm sort of on Maisysmummy's side and had they been my dogs I would have leased them but have to say inside I would have been miffed/sad...not because the request was wrong and it isnt a big deal to have to leash your dogs till you are away from someone who is scared. However loads of people are scared of Rotties, Dobes, GSD's and Staffies and if they all ask for the dogs to be leased, well then as someone else said you are being breed specific and might as well say these breeds should always remain leashed. There are plently of online petitions to this affect and a reporter in one of the papers recently went as far as to say these breeds should not even be owned.

On the question of dogs only being off lead if they are 100% on recall, I think that means no one can let their dogs off because you can never be sure.

Last weekend I took my Dobe to visit a friend and went to her local park, she recently lost her dog and asked me to bring my Dobe just so she could have some 'dog time' as she put it. We have no parks near us, its all tracks and there is very little scope for  running properly, only up and down. The places we could go have all been hit by that Seasonal bug thing. My dog has perfect recall and I can stop her with a whistle immediately.

There was no one about apart from a guy with a couple of terriers and i let her off. Well she took off....or so I thought and I was speechless for about 2 seconds! Only she hadn't taken off she was just running in a very wide decreasing circle, bit like a BC on 'One man and his dog' :) She was just running out off her skin, it was a pleasure to watch , she ignored the terriers and they her. But I whistled her because she had gone very wide and she never sat and waited as she always does, so I called her in but I had to do it twice. Now to anyone watching it properly looked like she came straight away but because I know her, I know she didn't. She was doing no harm just running for the sheer pleasure but some people would have found it scary I guess. Made me feel guilty because it obviously gave her great pleasure ..I may have to buy her a small field :)

Peanut. i got my bites back & the Dazer11 on the internet. just google.

Leading on in a roundabout way from this thread, we had a bit of a to do in the park today. There is a young (9mths) Briard/poodle cross by the name of Biscuit that is an absolute nightmare, she is stupidly friendly and rushes any dog in the park from one side to the other and launches herself at them upside down legs flying as pups do but 100 times worse, all over them in thier faces etc. and now at 9 months is getting quite big, about Lab sized. Now today I walked into the park let Vino (21 months) off the lead Granny Pepsi was off lead, and Merlot my top dog was sitting waiting to be released. This blooming pup came from nowhere (I usually try to keep out of it's way as Merlot does not take kindly to being jumped on by an out of control lunatic and will grumble, nothing more just a "Get outta my face" noise). I have not seen it for a couple of months. Vino was in the bushes and did not notice immediatly (She has met it before no problems) it rushed in under my feet round Merlot tangled in the lead making silly squeely noises as it does, tripped me up (I kept my ballance) was all over Merlots face licking and nibbling (She hates that) Merlot had a grumble and I tried to push it away when Vino suddenly realized and shot out of the bushes and stood over it growling, she did not hurt it no question of a bite but it has upset me, (Buscuit eventually got the message after I pulled Vino off and rushed off to pester a boxer cross who was simmilarly fed up with it.) Vino has never been anything but friendly to every one/dog. I spent a lot of time socialising her and teaching her how to approach other dogs and how to meet and greet, now this has happened. The woman with Buscuit walked off and I waited till she had gone way over to the other side of the park before I continued. My 3 girlies never ever aproach other dogs except those they play with every day. If we meet other dogs they will have a sniff and say Hi then walk on, often not even that in fact Merlot and Pepsi ignore most dogs and Vino just says hello if they are within 10 foot of us other wise she ignores them too. Vino is a happy playfull firendly girlie, she has never behaved like this before. The girls never  bother other dogs and apart from Merlot occasionally  telling a male to get lost or a puppy to calm down, are 100% good. What made Vino react like she did ? did she think her mum (Merlot ) or myself were in danger from this idiot pup? We continued our walk, me with a very wary eye out for buscuit rushing back, we met other dogs and Vino was as normal. I hope this has not upset the apple cart but it is another reason why people should keep unruly dogs in check and under control. One day this adolescent is going to rush the wrong dog and there could be real danger to her.
The owner seems to be completly unconserned as to what her dog is doing.
Aileen

Perhaps Vino's sense of doggie etiquette was deeply offended by this unruly youngster that cam and imposed herself on the family group- and not in a polite way either. Again, this is a classic example of the problems huge size differences can cause, as well as people taking the time to teach their youngsters how to beahve politely around adult dogs- the Briard is out of puppy licence period now and it is in her interests to learn how to behave with adult dogs. Some dogs simply will not stand for it and they get blamed for telling the little yobbo off.

Let's put it this way if some teenager ran up and start excitedly jumping all over me when I was out, I'd be furious too.

People can't really teach doggy etiquette - it has to be other dogs. This is the sort of telling off the young dog needs to stop her rushing up to dogs. I agree the owner is putting her at risk though - as another dog might not stop at a growl. The owner could do with finding a group to walk with or using a dog walking service who walks groups of dogs to get the dog used to interacting with dogs in a safer manner. The crazy greetings and over excitement suggest she's not getting to spend time with other dogs.

Ironically - probably a few walks with your three would probably help her a great deal Merlot :-D

This pup does go out with a dog walker, mind you it's not the sort of dog walker I would recomend as she often has 8 -10  dogs out at a time, ranging from a tiny yorkshire terrier, a couple of something poo's, JRT, 2 -3 collie types, a GSD, Goldie, buscuit the Briard/Poodle cross and a black and tan tightskin mix! I suspect she has no insurance and does not declare her earnings ! But it's a waste of time as the dog walker ignores her behaviour as well. ! as she does all her charges. I avoid her like the plague! She is a disaster waiting to happen. I know most of the dogs on our walks and there are a couple who are always leashed who would give this little upstart a real sorting out if she did the same to them.. one in particular a Boxer is a reall grump and his owner has him leashed and often muzled..but not always ! One day someone will take the name literally and "Buscuit" will get crunched....
Aileen

I also would not worry about Vino, dogs are very good at reading situations, no doubt she noticed your stress levels going up and Merlots warning signs being ignored and decided to put her oar in to back up the message. She may not react at all the next time she sees Biscuit. :-)

As already said, there will come a time when the adolescent runs out of luck and the adult dogs will send a very clear message, hopefully it will not be from your dogs as no doubt Biscuits owner will feel that the other dog/s are in the wrong as her dog is only being friendly. :-)  But the owner needs to recall, there was no mention of her even trying.

Do you feel able to talk to her and try to explain for her dogs safety what may happen now Biscuit is older? It may well be time for the dog to have a longline if recall is not very good too, no doubt she will settle as she gets older and less interested. :-)

The owner never recall's she just stands looking on like a limp lettuce !!
Maybe I should try to talk to her but with her daft pup at the moment I will not approach her....rather leg it in the oposite direction. If we meet up in the car park with the idiot Buscuit on a lead I will have a chat.
Aileen

Just an update for you.
Having heard nothing from the police regarding these two dogs, I rang the police this morning to see if there was any result from my calling them last Monday. My call was logged but it appears no action was taken !. They said they would get the local beat officer to ring me to make an appointment to come and see me. This afternoon two officers arrived, they were very understanding but it seems there is little they can do. Suggested I call the dog warden or the RSPCA !
I just hope these dogs don't go on to hurt/injure another human or dog.

> Having heard nothing from the police regarding these two dogs

One of ours attacked on lead, suffered ruptured disc into spinal column & paralysed for some time. Numerous other dogs also attacked, along with threatening behaviour & language towards owners. Article in local paper asking for people to come forward, 12 did including myself but still police said not enough & when I spoke to the dog warden he didn't even know about it!