I was at pet training yesterday and a lady who also shows told me that the Good Citizen classes at WELKS were Crufts qualifiers. My girl qualified anyway from Veteran, but I wondered if she was right. It seems unlikely frankly or the classes would be a lot bigger, but she reckoned that 1st, 2nd and 3rd in GC were qualifiers?

Here is the 2012 qualification link

http://www.crufts.org.uk/crufts-2012-qualification

I sadly don't think she is right - we have a lot of Sh Ch in our breed now entering this class - I do at Crufts enter it but tend to avoid it at general ch shows as I can't understand the purpose of it to be honest!  and not worth the extra entry fee - with two dogs in the ring at the moment and fuel costs :(

I understand that GC classes don't count BUT a win in there can get you into the challenge though, I think...

There is a slight tweak to Crufts qualification for 2013 which may be a help for those of you with breeds that don't have many CC shows

http://www.crufts.org.uk/news/changes-qualifications-crufts-2013

Yes a win will get you in the challenge provided unbeaten in other classes.

No, I didn't think she was right. Ah well, never mind, my friend would have been thrilled if she'd found her boy had qualified! And yes to Dogsababe, a win means you go into the challenge (if unbeaten in other classes) just like any other class win. :-)

I thought GC had to be a second entry? So a win in GC wouldn't really count towards getting through to the Challenge as the result of your previous class entry would be the decider. However if you won your 1st class and then were beaten in the GC you would be knocked out of the Challenge.

The challenge is ALL unbeaten dogs and no GC does not need to be a second entry.

Really?? I was so sure it did. So you can just enter GC for your breed? Why on earth don't more people do that?!

Not at all - I entered Henry in GC the first year it was at Crufts, and he won it and went to the challenge. Rather confused the Open Dog winner as nobody realised back then that it was a real class, and he wondered why there was someone standing next to him! :-) Basically more people don't do it because most serious show people have never heard of the Good Citizen scheme and don't consider it a proper class. But the quality and quantity of dogs in it is gradually rising.

This is such a useful piece of information thank you! I really thought you could only enter it as a second class, if a champ show is a long distance it would relieve the stress of the journey to just enter gcb and know I will get there in time for the class!

The only time GC class is qualifying is at Crufts itself, and only the 1st place!

In my breed now we have sh ch entering as the first entry so think less people will now enter it :( - the only time I enter this class is at Crufts and this is a second entry and purely because it's free - at general ch shows I won't enter it as can't justify the cos especially when likely to be beaten by sh ch!

However I do enter at opens the good citizen stakes and recently my youngster won at just 18m £6.00 prize money too:)

Don't forget a few champ shows still have a latest time you are allowed to arrive, but otherwise yes, it's good. I was thinking of doing it as our only class at Crufts next year, let's face it although Ellie is perfectly decent and has done great at open level, she is never going to get anything at Crufts, and as she's a veteran I can choose between getting up in time for an 8.30am start in the first class of the day, or plan to arrive at 10ish, much more civilised! :-D

Another point with wins in the Good citizen breed classes, they are not classed as wins taken into account in moving between the graduate/ post grad/limit classes etc even though they are a sort of restricted Open class.

The first time Good Citizen classes were on at crufts, 2006 I think, our judge, a very well known and respected all rounder, asked all the GC entrants to sit and then lie down in the class (ok the dogs not the handlers !)  I think she'd kind of misunderstood the purpose of the class! lol

2004, but yes, I've heard such stories before. Luckily we've always been judged reasonably properly in it - specially when I had Henry in it, who wasn't terribly good at sits, he could do it in front of me but never learned to sit at heel. :-)

Both my dogs like to sit in front of me - they are both very in to eye contact!

Just tagging on the end.....I don't understand this class at all now. I thought it was for those that have done the GC dog scheme to some level Bronze/silver/gold? and I thought that you could only enter these classes if you had done so? Because of those (looks like incorrect) thoughts I did think it was a bit pointless to just run the dogs around and not make them show off some sort of obedience training? Now I'm totally confused and I'm going to try to find more info on this on the KC site (which I never find very easy to navigate lol)
Paula

Ok just looked and you do have to have at least your bronze GC award....that makes sense. :-)

and found this for OP....GCDS Breed Class at Crufts
Dogs that have qualified for Crufts in their own breed and have also achieved their GCDS Bronze Award or above are eligible to enter the GCDS Breed Class at Crufts.

Probably as it isn't a Crufts qualifier and may be seen as an also rans class, so people prefer to win their proper class in case the judge doesn't think their dogs up to much having been entered it that class.

It is a useful class if your showing more than one dog and have no other classes to go in.  I am in the position of having two in open bitch at Bath and GC would have been handy (or veteran in my case) to separate them.  As it is I will have to hunt for a handler, perhaps nab a passing Junior.

Yes, that's right, you have to have your bronze award at least. But then it's judged like any other show class. You don't have to prove the dog's picking up ability in the gamekeeper classes, or race the greyhounds in the racer classes, after all!

Sadly the whole attitude of quite a few exhibitors, judges & stewards towards the GC classes has disappointed me greatly.  I have been showing dogs for nearly 40 years.  I have been doing GC tests for 10 years.  A few years back the GC class was the only class that I could have entered my SWD puppy in as he wasn't eligible for anything other than Open Dog or GC Dog (at 9 months that was pushing it!) 

Anyway, I showed my very nice TT bitch in GC at Welks, our only class, which she won & she was indeed in the challenge.  The steward was incredibly mocking of the whole class & suggested I sold my rossette on ebay! 

To the OP, it is not a qualifier currently, but I am trying to get the KC to make 1st place at CH shows in this class a qualifier, otherwise why bother putting it on at all?

I also have had conversations with CH Show judges who did not realise that you could give CCs to the GC class winner if they were unbeaten, oh dear :-(

That would be nice, then I'd feel I'd qualified by beating a dog in that class rather than just being present in the veteran class. :-) How come you couldn't put your puppy in a puppy or junior class? I've had people ask me what it's all about while I've been in the class, I do try to explain.

CJ that's why I don't get it - what is its purpose at ch shows if not a qualifier?  Give it a purpose! and shame on the steward mocking it and the judge not realising could give a CC to the winner! 

Lots of classes at Ch shows aren't qualifiers ...

Of course you are right JG just for some reason can't get my head around that class!!!   Its not many in my breed that aren't - only Graduate now for example - as Yearling is now I believe.  Its only at our breed shows that you have many more that aren't.

But you know that the others are either age related or win related - the GCDS is a bit like the open class now but not a qualifier in any shape or form?  And when the judges don't get it - why have it? 

Anyway, I showed my very nice TT bitch in GC at Welks, our only class, which she won & she was indeed in the challenge.  The steward was incredibly mocking of the whole class & suggested I sold my rossette on ebay! 

Thankfully that's not the norm. A friend of mine often enters the GC classes to avoid having two dogs in the same class, and she has won tickets from GC class wins! In fact she did so at Driffield last year, took the bitch CC from the GC class which only had her bitch as the entry.

How come you couldn't put your puppy in a puppy or junior class?  SWDs only had Yearling, Open, GC classes the first year they had classes at Crufts, which meant Open or GC for my puppy! 

Going back to GC, hopefully things will start to change.  8 years on now from when they first had GC at Crufts.  I will hold my hands up in all honesty & say that I had my doubts about entering my Ch in GC at Crufts the first year, so didn't.  I took me a while to get my head around the class as an exhibitor & a judge,  but as I have spent the last 10 years putting all my dogs through the bronze, all bar 2 of my dogs through silver & quite a few through the gold, I want to let people know that my very nice, quality show dogs are also "Good Citizens".

> I want to let people know that my very nice, quality show dogs are also "Good Citizens".

and that was the PURPOSE of introducing the class.

I have to admit guilty that my younger ones haven't gone in for it, I stopped going to our local training class because of the slippery wooden floor.  Every time they sat they would slide into a down, and any time they decided to put the brakes on when doing heel work they would slide along when given a lead check, and not care, so I felt I was just teaching them to do it wrong.

I love to watch trainers working their dogs but I don't enjoy it myself, as I am not committed enough.  General manners and co-operation with me are enough for me.

Now that I don't let my dogs free run even the incentive for training to get a reliably solid recall with canine distraction has largely gone.

Yes, that's why I do it too. My show dogs are pets too, and I want them to be fairly well behaved. Mind you, it's a good thing they don't require proof of their good behaviour as regards chewing bedding - time to replace the dog bed!!