Lucas at the vets (yet again) this morning.

Yesterday morning having been outside first thing, got back into his basket waiting for me to prepare their food. Turned to find him swaying & tottering on his back legs - attempting to keep his balance - and then his front legs splayed & down he went. I sat with him for some min's before putting down their food to see what happened. He raised himself up to eat & without any problem managed to stand! 

He had stopped on a walk Saturday last & was reluctant to go any further & ended up calling for back up, when the car arrived, he was fine, jumping around as if no problem until that evening when he got up for food and started to shake his back right leg as if attempting to get rid himself of pins & needles. Looking back he has done this a couple of times over the last two years, but it has been put down to the nerve damage suffered from two slipped discs one of which ruptured.

Today our vet examined him & has suggested that the cruciate ligament in his rear right at some time has been damaged & the knee is now suffering badly from arthritis. Now Lucas has had his problems but at no time has he presented lame in that leg.

Sorry to waffle but can a dog damage a cruciate showing any signs?

I have had 2 dogs with cruciate problems.  Both dogs(mother and son) snapped cruciates so I could tell straight away.  Both we running at the time and when it snapped, fell to the floor and lay for a few minutes.  When they got up, They had a very pronounced limp and held their leg off the ground whenever possible.  It never got better, even after rest and required surgery.

TBH, I would be looking into his back injury again before thinking about cruciate.  Nerve damage works in funny ways and nearly always affects the legs.  Get refered to an orthopedic vet and get a second opinion.  Arthritic knees are one thing but don't let anyone perform surgery until you are sure it's the cruciate.

Cracar thank you for your response. I too have been thinking that it stems from his back, Ortho specialist has confirmed nerve damage along his right side & this occasional leg twitch l believe began after his paralysis (4 years). I have phoned to make an appointment with his chiropractor, and will take it from there. The strange thing is that he hasn't presented with pain in that leg (which if he'd damaged his cruciate, there surely would have at least lameness) but he is clicking at times whe walking which I'm told is a sign? Will also phone Mr Mcqueen to day.
What ever the outcome, I don't think surgery is an option, age & medical history & I wouldn't want to put him through it.

Oh, I've heard of the clicking but again, I don't think that's a cruciate problem.  Cruciate ligament is more like a thick muscle, not bone so how could it click?  I'm sure the dog I  heard the clicking on was my Kaos who had popping hocks and could 'pop out' her knee too.  Her back end make up was terrible in the end up but never served her wrong in her life, just wasn't a great showdog(obvs!lol).  Her leg would 'click' sometimes when she walked. Could you not try supplements for the arthritic knee and see if that helped with the clicking? And the 'dead leg' thing, I'm sure is back damage/nerve damage cos I get it with mine!

My lurcher had two damaged cruciates. In his case it was degenerative (possibily due to hypothyroidism which was diagnosed shortly before the cruciate damage was found). They never snapped, he just became stiffer and stiffer when getting up which at first I put down to age as he was 9 then, but eventually he limped for a step or two when getting up so I took him to my vet. X-rays showed nothing though a lesion in his back made them refer him for an MRI. That showed that the back problem wasn't the issue, but the damaged cruciates.

He had the worse one operated on (TPLO) and has been as right as rain since! That's nearly two years now and the other one hasn't needed surgery so far as it is causing him no problems at all.

Luckily, my lurcher had been on glucosamine/chondroitin/MSM as well as salmon oil since the age of about 7 (which is what I do with all my dogs) and touch wood, even now after the surgery, he is showing no signs of arthritis yet at all in his knees.

So to answer your question, yes, they can show signs of damaged cruciates. But I think the problem is that perhaps more often than not, the symptoms are put down to other things including older age... as I did at first with my dog until the cruciates snap. Luckily with my dog, the referral vet found the problem and we could fix it without him having to go through a complete rupture! I have learnt to investigate any small niggling problems until I find out what it is... and that normally pays off. Just last year, I insisted for one of my other dogs to be referred when my own vet couldn't find anything at all (including x-rays) that could cause my dog's hopping during trotting... most vets/people would have just advised to live with it as it wasn't anything major. It turned out to be a damaged disc which caused my dog major back pain. Once I knew what it was I could put him on supplements and he is now (almost) as good as new. :-)

My first bit of advice would be to put your dog on adequate supplements. Just a few ideas: glucosamine/chondroitin/MSM (important!), salmon oil, turmeric (can work wonders for pain relief!), devil's claw...

Many thanks for your reply. They have both been on supplements for 6 years - MSM, glucosamine & chondroitin & our vet & chiropractor would  t confirm that I am very proactive (prehaps a pain in the arse). What has taken me by surprise is that apparently it's been there for some time but until now has not he has not shown any signs!

One of my dogs had a cruciate with the clicking noise which was the meniscus according to the surgeon, her leg was swinging, she couldn't use it. Another dog had her cruciate go then 6 weeks later had 2 discs pop so comparing your dog's symptoms it could be either. Best to get it investigated,  good luck with whatever it is.

> And the 'dead leg' thing, I'm sure is back damage/nerve damage cos I get it with mine!

LOL, same here when I have been sitting in a bad position.