I have recently, 2 weeks ago, placed a deposit on a now 4 week old pup.  After my chasing breeder confirmed funds received telling me they would be in touch, however since then I have heard nothing, sent 2 emails chasing, several calls but no answer and I am getting concerned.  As the age of pups still only 1 mth is it normal/usual to get no response as time will be spent with the new pups and breeder will be in touch in due course?

Should I be concerned that emails are not responded to?  Also, videos of pups have been placed online (not the breeders website), but nothing has been sent to me (found it by accident). Is it normal, it seems a little odd that breeder hasn't given me this access to viewing the pups or even pointed me in direction of the videos.  I have asked when we can see pups, but that was not responded to - when should I expect to hear from this breeder inviting us to visit / choose our pup??

Have you actually met the breeder?  How did you find them?

Hello.  No, I haven't met them, however they are on Kennel club as accredited. Have I been a bit silly in trusting them, I have spoken to many breeders before settling no these.

Having pups is a busy time for a breeder, especially a conscientious one.  It is possible that the emails have gone astray/internet connection problems/PC broken etc. or there is some other innocent explanation. 

I guess most if not all breeders would have made contact with you by now to give you an update on the pups and invite you to visit etc.  I would have thought the invite to visit at a mutually convenient date would have followed fairly swiftly after receipt of the deposit.

Most breeders update their owners weekly or thereabouts on the progress of the babies and indeed most would-be owners make regular contact with the breeder and this contact is acknowledged relatively swiftly (usually same day or within a day). Although some owners seem to underestimate the work involved in rearing a litter, and expect a reply immediately, especially where email is concerned!

Perhaps you should try telephoning them and see how you get on. Certainly, that would rule out technology based problems and perhaps if you speak to them (assuming they are there to answer the call) you will be offered a genuine reason for the lack of contact.

Hope this is all a misunderstanding rather than anything to be concerned about.

I can't really see how any reputable breeder can take a deposit without meeting and vetting a prospective owner.
Personally, I would be inclined to give the Kennel Club a phone on Monday, ask to speak to someone in the Assured Breeder Dept to voice your concerns and enquire whether this breeder had been through their inspection process yet.  If you are not fully satisfied with their response I would be inclined to cut your money and run.

If said breeder has time to place videos and photos online then I'd be concerned that no email has been responded to.
Have they acknowledged your deposit? How was it sent? Cash, chq or postal order? If chq see if they've cashed it..

I'd be calling them tbh, I don't like to bother breeders but like to speak to them every 2 weeks once litter born if possible, that isn't too much really.

Call them and see, possibly you have their email typed incorrectly? However I'd be a wee bit dubious myself.

Oh, wow how could they be accredited without being seen by KC?  I will indeed call the KC to see if they have been visited and I will also try calling again, as suggested by Chris.  I hope I finally manage to get through, I have to say they did ask many questions and I completed a fairly lengthy questionnaire so they do know a great deal about me.  I have also visited other breeders who I chose not to go with due to it "feeling wrong" i.e. dirty homes, puppies dirty...  I felt I could trust this breeder - hope I am right.

I think you need to phone them to arrange a visit.

I understand they are busy with pups but I personally always answer emails next day latest and send photo's and news every week.

My mentor does too.

Thanks Sue - I sent cash transfer, they confirmed receipt but that is the last I have heard.  I sent the emails on a reply email so I know the address correct. I will do as other suggested and call them - might also get other people to call them to see if they respond to other telephone numbers.

Most good breeders would not ask for a deposit and especially not if they hadn't even met you.  I didn't e-mail quite as much as i usually do to my last puppy owners to be but my family life was a bit mad but they still got at least one e-mail a week and I did put all photo's and video's on my website in case I just didn't have time to e-mail them seperately.

I never have and never would let anyone pay a deposit. 

Questionaires are all very well but you find out a lot more by chatting and not letting people know exactly what it is you are finding out!
I have to say, as much as I would not sell to someone I had never met I would not buy a puppy like that either. 
How do you know their home and puppies are not dirty?
How do you know what the temperament of the mother and any other relatives living there is?

Obviously I don't.  I have spoken to literally dozens of breeders none of which have said they would not take a deposit prior to meeting me.  One advised they would refund deposit after meeting up if things "didn't work out", however on the whole what I was told by them didn't seem so very different. 

I chose this breeder after researching many and reading up about them, they have comprehensive details on their website regarding the mum and full details including health of dad too. There are lots of pictures and I trust this is a genuine site.  They are accredited by the KC and, maybe naively, thought this was good enough. 

We have been searching for the right dog for nearly a year now, having spoken to many breeders, via the KC, settled on them.

Not known any breeder to take a deposit before meeting you, that doesn't sound good. Could
You send a PM to one of us who's replied with the link of their website, at least then we can give you more of an idea about this breeder :-)

I've sent it over to you.

I agree that the lack of contact appears unsettling, however until proven otherwise it is best not to make any assumptions regarding the integrity of the breeder.  Life is full of misunderstandings, I guess it's also full of con artists but as I say until you get to find out a bit more from the breeder (or from your background enquiries) about the lack of communication, nobody is really in a position to judge them.

When you say you paid by cash transfer, do you mean you credited their account directly with cash at a bank using a Giro slip or do you mean you transferred it by internet banking or using your debit/credit card at the bank?

Most electronic payment transactions are covered by "Chargeback".  This is a process which enables consumers to challenge and claw back payments made from their plastic card accounts where the recipient of the funds has acted fraudulently or the goods or services paid for were not provided.  If you do subsequently discover the breeder has acted fraudulently you should contact your bank ASAP.  The chargeback process covers you for 120 days after the transaction appeared on your account or in the case of purchases that cannot be dispatched/delivered to the purchaser within that period, 120 days from the date the product should have been received i.e. 120 days from when you expected to collect your puppy.

Hi Chris - I am trying not to be concerned, but time is ticking on and the silence is slightly unnerving.

Re the funds I made a transfer from my account to theirs online, I know that I am protected by using CC and Paypal but would a claw back facility be available to me, should need be, with a transfer from my current ac to theirs??

> I agree that the lack of contact appears unsettling, however until proven otherwise it is best not to make any assumptions regarding the integrity of the breeder.

The lack of contact is not the worrying aspect as I see it, this will be a very busy time for the breeder, it is the taking of a deposit without meeting that concerns me. 

Trouble is websites can be faulse they can have copied and pasted photo's and pedigrees etc on them, it is amazing what can go on today.

If this is a scam, you've lost your money and probably can not trace them, paying by bank transfer straight does not confirm an address. A landline and address are two of the most important things for identification. Did you talk on a mobile or call on a landline?

However, everyone may well be jumping the gun, so much scamming going on it makes everyone suspicious the breeder may just be rubbish at keeping in touch, I've known a few just like that, great with the dogs but people skills have been terrible and you just learn not to expect too much :-) the thing is if it is a legit breeder eventually they will return your calls when they are ready, it is about now that visiting can start, so you should hear within the next week or so.

If you can not get an answer you'll have to wait and see, afraid it will come down to a waiting game as if everything is faulse your not going to see your money or a pup, and if it's not, no point stressing the breeder or yourself through lack of contact. (Even though I agree it is bad, wouldn't let my pups new owners be left in the dark)

It's a real shame you did not visit the dam and breeder first, in this day and age I just would not book a pup without either knowing of the breeder or visiting, pictures don't always tell the full story.

Hope that everything turns out ok and it is just really bad contact from this breeder.

Let us know how things turn out.

cheers!  The number is a landline so I felt reassured by that. I do hope she's just rubbish with maintaining contact (although the regular updates on another video site appear to show she's great at making updates),  it's making me resent her a little because, like yourself, I would never leave a person in the dark like this.

but would a claw back facility be available to me

Yes, I believe the transaction can be disputed when fraud is involved, however it would be best to speak to your bank about this.

Try to get hold of the breeder so at least you can rest easy or indeed know with certainty that you have something to worry about.

we got ripped off with deposit but different way to yours and its not nice and makes you not trust people! fingers crossed their just very busy and will be intouch with you very soon but i must say im abit this way when ive had pups i get sooo tired that i read emails and then forget to answer :( or return calls but allways did in the end ,just abit later.

Thanks Chris. Well, tomorrow I will get hubby to call bank and discuss with them.  I will also call and call and call to try to get a reponse, with new pups they are hardly likely to be very far, fingers crossed x

>I haven't met them, however they are on Kennel club as accredited.

If you've never met them or seen the pup (and its mother) how do you know you want it?

Well, we researched breeds looked at the sort of breed that will fit in best with our family, spent time with these dogs, looked at breeders who would be breeding when we would be ready to welcome a pup into our home,  I contacted breeders and had lengthy conversations which ended in arranged visits.

This breeder stuck out as their website was professional, lots of info available, they seemed to care who dogs were going to... and they were local to us. I spent a great deal of time discussing the dogs with them and I was then told I needed to register, which I did.  I didn't hear anything after registering (I didn't think this was unusual as she made it clear that I was placing my name on a waiting list only at this stage so didn't really expect to hear anything until pups were born), however I contacted them around the time the pups should be due and I was told she had overlooked my form and that the pups had been born a few days ago (video website seems to support this), they were all allocated except two and I needed to place a deposit to secure a pup (to me this sounded plausable).  

Ok, I have actually got this breeders account name and they are ltd company, looking at companiesintheuk website I can see their accounts (FOI has it's uses), and I can see they have kennels (not much in acc), if anyone knows anything about what I should be looking for pm me and I will send account name she gave me (hope that's ethical??)

If you've never met them or seen the pup (and its mother) how do you know you want it?

More to the point how do they know they want to sell a puppy to the OP? A deposit taken, and at 2 weeks, without meeting the buyer -sounds extremely dodgy to me I'm afraid. I'd never EVER take a deposit but even if I did, not at such a young age when anything could still happen.

Ok, I have actually got this breeders account name and they are ltd company,

Sounds like you should run a mile!!

Because of the history, or because they are ltd company?? Sorry am I being bit dumb??

I've looked on their site and googled them too. They say they health test but make no mention of pedigrees of any of their dogs. They have a tab for their dogs but show a typical puppy and their stud dog only.
They have it quite well sighted that they have a litter due and are now taking deposits.

From google they have said on another site that they will wait until they have enough people on a list before breeding, almost like bred to order.
No mention that they show or work their dogs.
They are based in Monmouthshire...

I would want to see history of all their current breeding stock, pedigrees to check out health test results.
There is a thank you email from guide dogs, how about making contact to see if they have indeed had 3 puppies from them. Also a call to the KC to see if accredited breeders and also to find out the KC names if possible and health test results..

They also advertise their dogs as 'chunky' which is not a word often used to describe your own stock in big bold lettering..

How much did you send for a deposit? I'd personally now leave it if a small amount and try and find a breeder who does work or show their dogs, who want to keen you and your family first. Someone who yes health tests, will pass you details of pedigrees to check online, to see certificates also.
Someone who in this breed belongs to a breed club, they too if you contact them should be able to put you in touch with people who are expecting litters and hopefully should be reputable.

If buying a pup, before handing any money over you want to see mum, often before litter has been born, if not then from 4-5 weeks onwards and seeing pups with her.

The website is flash and catches your attention but dig deeper and sorry but it screams puppy farmer :-(

Thanks for feedback Sue,  we gave £200 so I guess that's lost.  I have discovered that they are registered as providing "animal husbandry services", not sure what that means??

yes sue ive been doing the same as you and ive just told them to run like the wind the site just isnt right! they are puppy farmers! ive looked to see if they are accred breeders and their not!

it can mean breeding of animals meaning many!

good luck and fingers crossed you get your money back!! X

Because of the history, or because they are ltd company?? Sorry am I being bit dumb??

Because they are breeding as a business, and that is always something to avoid. Good breeders breed as one small part of their hobby and lifestyle which is dogs of their chosen breed, we spend lots and lots of money on show entries, vet fees etc, and when we have puppies (which often is only once a year or so, if that) we tend to make a big loss.

I definitely wouldn't buy a puppy unless I had seen the set up, Mum and met the breeder. I won't accept a buyer who hasn't come and visited me and the litter either.

As for getting the deposit back, unless you can prove they have said something that isn't true I don't think you are entitled to it. If your bank does agree to taking the money back (if) the breeder could technically complain to the banking authorities who might reinstate the payment on investigation. I'd urge you to go see a litter and meet the breeder next time before any money is paid. I wouldn't sell a puppy to someone I hadn't met.

Thanks, actually they have stated lots of things that, potentially, are not true, such as they are accredited by KC, their dogs pedigree.  I will try to see what can be done, if anything, today.

Print off everything onto a hard copy for proof.

Definitely a different story if they have lied, do you have written evidence of that or was it a phone conversation? Hope you do get your money back.

I visited a breeder that turned out to be a puppy farmer. It was so grim, I cried all the way home.

News!  After forwarding my 3 previous emails yesterday I this morning awoke to an email from breeder apologising and inviting me to visit the pup next wknd after midday.  I have thanks them and confirmed that I can do as soon as they confirm their address (as it's not on the website).  Presumably, assuming a visit goes ahead, I will see they are not a puppy farm as they would not have invited me there would they???

BenjiW - think our posts crossed.  How will I know if they are puppy farmer????  As for having evidence I have taken all info from their website. and trusted the info in good faith.

Have you checked your SPAM folder?

I tend to send emails to all the people who have booked, but found that some ISP's think they are spam as addressed to more than one recipient.

I have also found emails from people in my Spam folder (which I rarely go on-line to check at ISP site).

Your best bet is to phone them.

This as the others have said is the busiest time.

I also put pictures up on my site to keep people updated on pups progress.  They  may well have emailed to tell you this or assumed you had their site details, as having contacted them by electronic means in the first place.

Thanks brainless.  I have accepted their address so it would not go into my spam file, however to be safe I checked this regularly.  I have also regularly checked their website regularly and can see that it hasn't been updated since they confirmed a litter was due (no new puppy pics there), however currently utube seems to be weekly updated with videos.  I have also just seen breeder advertising on peddy-mark as a microchip planter.

I would be inclined to do some more research before possibly wasting a journey to visit them.

Why don't they appear to show or work their dogs?  What are they breeding for?  As someone else has pointed out, good breeders tend to give details of pedigrees and show results on their websites.  Anyone can pay a web designer for a super duper website but it the substance of it that counts. One of the definitions of a puppy farmer is someone who produces puppies just for financial gain.

The fact that they are willing to take a booking from someone they have never met seems to me to show a lack of concern for their dogs so how else will this lack of concern be manifested?

As, I said before I would be asking the Kennel Club to confirm they are in the Assured Breeder Scheme  (not called Accredited any more) and can they tell you any more about whether or not they have been inspected.

I hope someone actually involved with the breed will respond to this thread soon and perhaps be able to give you more specific information about this breeder as I feel they must be known, for good or bad, due to the number of dogs they appear to produce.

You will know they are a puppy farmer by going to see the set up and seeing the litter/s. You wouldn't know by viewing a website and having a phone conversation.

Ok, I have just received an email from them which is strange, at least to me. I want to copy and paste this email to someone so they can read and advise.  any offers???

> You will know they are a puppy farmer by going to see the set up and seeing the litter/s.

You may not know by visiting. They may have a very different "front of shop" to what is going on in the background.  The key to finding a well bred puppy from an ethical and responsible breeder is research, research, research.  I hope someone in Labradors will read this thread soon and be able to offer more exact information, perhaps privately, to the OP.

Send it to me if you like?  I will PM you my details, can you privately tell me the breed and e-mail me their website?

"As someone else has pointed out, good breeders tend to give details of pedigrees and show results on their websites"

Some breeders prefer not to have their dogs pedigrees on the internet simply because unscrupulous, puppy farmer types can copy them and use them for themselves....

What breed is this ? It is fine to say on this thread as no one has a litter to sell, you are the potential purchaser. I would run a mile as others have said, I hope you can get your deposit back though.

> Some breeders prefer not to have their dogs pedigrees on the internet simply because unscrupulous, puppy farmer types can copy them and use them for themselves....

I think this may be an urban myth as the information is all in the public domain anyway.