Hi all, i need some advice. I bred my cavalier and she was pregnant with 4 pups scan confirmed. When she gave birth the first 2 puppies were fine but the 3rd and 4th were decomposed vet says she caught a virus? This caused my bitch to get poorley over the 2 weeks after birth as some of the afterbirth etc were stuck in mum. 2 weeks of vets each day, x rays, antibiotics and tender loving care. Mum was fine and i have both the live pups which are now 15 months old. What im wondering is has anyone else experienced this and have you gone on to breed from her again? I would like to breed from her again if it is safe? She turned out to be a great mum and both pups are a credit to the breed. I have a vet check booked for the 1st of may for their opinion, but as we all know sometimes breeders have more experience than vets. Any adice would be greatly appreciated. She has had 2 normal seasons since the birth of the pups, she is due in season may/june time. She is now 4

No I dont think you should breed from her again tbh. The problem with Cavaliers is (and Ive had them for 20 years) is that there are now so many health issues in the breed with syringomyelia, eye problems and heart problems that unless a Cavvie (or any other breed for that matter) is 100% health tested and with Cavvies have parents that are 5 year heart tested clear,  then its only a disaster waiting to happen.  If your girl has already had problems and was very ill giving birth then why on earth put her through that again, especially as you have already got two of her offspring.  You dont mention anything like MRI tests or diagnostic tests to rule out other health issues.  I think that you will also find that most people on here would also say not to breed her too :(

Sorry maybe i should of been more specific. She is health tested clear. She was not ill during pregnancy or the birth but because of the waste left from the dead puppies she got ill. she has not been ill since this unfortunate episode and has very good health generally.

If she;s been MRI tested, had heart and eye tests etc. and her pedigree has a healthy background, then as long as the sire also has the same health tests with good results then there's no reason why you couldn't breed again.  It doesn't mean that she will have the same problems second time around.

She has been fully health tested all of her life. I have a really good relationship with my vets surgery and no expense spared when it comes to my dogs. I have owned dogs for the last 38 years(my whole life). i would not breed from my bitch if the same would happen obviously. My cavi came from a very well known breeders and the family are very well known for keeping and breeding healthy dogs. Really i am looking for advice not judgement. Thanks

Thank you. Yes her previous mate was fully health tested also and they have been breeding for over 30 years.

I wasnt judging you at all, but you did ask for advice as for whether you should breed her again.  You didnt mention anything about the health tests recommended in the breed in your first post so that combined with the problems your girl had the first time, the fact that you have already kept both survivors from her litter made me suggest that I wouldnt breed her again.  So can you confirm that your girl has had an Annual BVA eye test and a heart check for Mitral Valve disease and possibly an MRI? These are all health screening requirements and recommendations for the breed.  Virus completely aside, without those tests, then it would be irresponsible of us to say yes, breed, especially with all the health problems in the Cavalier.

Personally I would only consider breeding from her again if she was exceptional in whatever way -as you already have two pups from her. Yes you could use the CHV vaccine and antibiotics during pregnancy, but it doesn't have to mean anything -you don't know for sure what happened. I had a bitch give birth to one dead and one decomposed pup, assumed it was CHV so tried her again and used the vaccine twice and had her on antibiotics twice during the pregnancy. Next time she had two dead pups and one live one. The live pup was the wrong sex and wrong colour to what I had hoped for, but he was ALIVE and good quality so I kept him and spayed the bitch as there was no way I was going to put her through a pregnancy again.

Yes she has had all tests recommended by the kennell club and my vets. I am really looking for advice or experience with virus during/after pregnancy. My bitch was scanned 10 days before birth for a 2nd time during her pregnancy and all 4 pups were alive. when born they had started to decompose. this is what caused the ill health in my bitch. As i said in my first post she is due at the vets on may 1st for the vets opinion and any scans/x-rays/ mri whatever they suggest to give us any possible answers. but i was just wondering if any other breeders have experience of this. Please don't assume that all people that have bred dogs are irresponsible. When it comes to my family in which i include all 3 of my dogs i take health care very seriously.

Thank you for your advice. If the general experienced advice from breeders and my vets is that i shouldnt breed from her, i wouldnt. She will be spayed of course. I just wanted some advice so i have all the information i could have before i make the decision.

> As i said in my first post she is due at the vets on may 1st for the vets opinion and any scans/x-rays/ mri whatever they suggest to give us any possible answers

The MRI test mentioned is not one that will help with this problem, it is a test to see if your dog has a very serious condition in cavaliers called syringomyelia, even if she is herself healthy at this time she could still pass this condition on to her offspring if not scanned clear of it.

Thanks but she has already been tested clear for syringomyelia. I was talking about the breeding problem. ie problem with her womb?

The problem doesn't have to appear with the next litter. I would breed her with no doubt.
You'll be selling puppies from health tested parents, with respectable bloodlines in contrast to 90% of cavalier puppies available at all times.
I'm finding it very difficult to find suitable puppy and already spent on it a couple of months.

> The MRI test mentioned is not one that will help with this problem, it is a test to see if your dog has a very serious condition in cavaliers called syringomyelia, even if she is herself healthy at this time she could still pass this condition on to her offspring if not scanned clear of it.

Syringomyelia is a polygenic condition with an estimated 30ish% heritability. Scanning clear will only tell you that this particular bitch doesn't have it herself. It does not mean that her puppies will automatically be clear too. It will just give you the best chance of avoiding SM. That is worth a lot, but there are no guarantees.

To the OP, you seem to have done everything right. Good luck with your vet's appointment. If it was me, and I got the right answers there, I would be inclined to use a different sire, give Synulox at the time of mating and again near the due date, and also give the Herpes vaccine. All the best.