What about a Standard Schnauzer ?. I love the stockyness of the Standards, they really look very workman like.
Black Russian Terrier, Bouvier, Airedale, just trying to think "outside the box".

I quite fancied a Hovawart but don't know enough about them to recommend them :) But I do think they are gorgeous.

Argh, Celli, are you trying to terrify me out of the idea!! The grooming??!  I'm bad enough with the dogs I have at the min! Low maintanence is my motto now!
Actually, I had to go out by myself tonight and I'm not so concerned when my daughter is not there.  Seems it's her I'm worried about and not myself? Me and the springer did 4 miles over the hills tonight.  Bliss! But I seriously think the sheep were talking about us as they stood in a line watching us run past!lol. What a lovely night it was and no flies yet so I was able to puff and pant to my hearts content!
Been thinking, I know my heart really wants a puppy but me head is telling me not now.  I've just got my house nice and calm and my patio all ready for the summer with potted plants etc, I can put out a washing without anything feeling the need to pull it off and drag it about for me.  Do I really want the hassle?(but a weeee teeeennyyy pooooppppyy:(

Argh, Celli, are you trying to terrify me out of the idea!! The grooming??!  I'm bad enough with the dogs I have at the min! Low maintanence is my motto now!

Lol, I thought they were quite low maintenance coat wise, I love grooming though, I have a "My Little Pony " mentality when it comes to brushing.

If you haven't yet discounted all the Belgian Shepherds, then the others are Groenendael (black, longhaired) and Tervueren (fawn, longhaired). And then of course there's the Laekenois... wiry curly-coated. I don't know what kind of coat care they need but they aren't clipped. They are a good size and will have the natural Belgian protectiveness.... however they don't look as intimidating, they remind me of Steiff bears!

I know what you mean about coat types. I have a very minor, bearable allergy to some animal coat types, usually thick soft fluffy undercoat. It makes my nose itch uncontrollably for several hours and I first noticed it when stewarding rabbits at shows as an older teenager. I am OK if I stick to the short-haired Fancy breeds and Rex but I have trouble with the Fur breeds, and also most Lops. I've noticed I occasionally get it from grooming my Malinois but not my BSD/BC cross as his undercoat doesn't tend to fly around.

And of course you do already know that no matter how much damage a poopy does, it's still made of solid gold and you can't be cross with it for having fun and making you laugh :)

That is interesting as a lady bought a pup from me 14 years ago when she found that the double coated Elkhounds owned by her cousin in Norway did not affect her. 

Turned out to only be short coated dogs that she was allergic too.

To make sure she had spent hours with several owners before committing to a puppy.

She also found terrier coats didn't bring on her allergies (I was dog sitting two Borders on their visit).

I haven't read all the posts, but just to give you an idea of what can happen with a 'soft' dog. My M-I-L (ex) had a Papillon x Sheltie type dog. He was a wimp. Would shake if anyone went near him, except immediate family, and even some of those. M-I-L took him out for a late night walk prior to bed. They met up with a group of young lads having a bit of fun. They weren't threatening in any way, but the dog wasn't happy. He stood between them and her with his teeth bared, growling his little heart out. They gave a wide berth as they passed. I also had a very gently English Springer who loved everyone, until the day a neihbour came in unanounced. She would have had him if we hadn't interfered.

You will never know how your dog will react, they can read body language a lot better than we can, so trust your dog and carry on running safe.

I once had a rough x border collie who I never heard growl and never showed any aggressive/protective qualities.....until someone walked through our back garden gate unannounced and she was in the garden.

She had his trouser leg in her mouth before I could blink!

Brainless, we(my skin, sons asthma) are allergic to short coat cats too yest we lived in a house with 8 akitas, a spaniel and a cat before with no problems at all.  Funny how we work.  But apparently the body changes every 7 years so this might be a short lived re-action?(hoping).  I would be too scared to take the chance with a short haired dog.
Puppies are made of solid gold!You are right.  I need a puppy in my life!!lol.

To the 2 posters regarding my dogs guarding, I have no doubt that my dogs would protect their house and in fact, have done so but outside, my girls are so friendly that they run up to everyone and anyone.  Last night, I went out alone with the springer(going too far for the other 2) and straight away, met a big gang of lads messing about(farmers field next to an estate).  The springer ran through the middle of the group to see what they were all doing but not only was no-one concerned by her, she was giddly wagging her tail at them all.  I'm just glad she's got a solid 'leave' as it looked as if she might have done something!!  Same when camping.  They just don't take the guarding instinct outside their 'area'.

Celli, you make me LOL!! My Little pony!!hahaha
My 2 little ones need brushed probably daily and a proper groom? Well, the old girl gets clipped in(neutered) every 8 weeks but the other gets done every month as I like to hand strip her.  It's only the springer that just needs a spit and polish every now and again and I love that.
Groomers always have the worst looking dogs!!lol

And then of course there's the Laekenois... wiry curly-coated. I don't know what kind of coat care they need but they aren't clipped.

Hand stripped. :)

Is a boxer coat too short as they have good stamina?

georgepig, Thanks but I think the boxer would affect me too.  Boxers, staffies, bull terrier, that sort of coat really bothers me.
Anyway, think I'm rounding on a Malamute.  OH loves them and has been trying to talk me into one for years and he's very nearly managed this time!lol. He showed me the racing! and the working trialing thing where you race up hills etc, and tbh, it does look FANTASTIC!!  Just a bit hard when you don't know anything about a breed or breeding but I've got time to research now anyway.
PS  If anyone has good reason for me not to own this breed, speak now or forever hold your peace!lol.

Not sure on stamina but have you looked at the Bouvier or the Russian Black?

Love Mals, the only thing I'd be concerned about is allowing them off lead, as in like the Husky you'll not see them again.. There are plenty of Mal owners on here. If you start another thread on them with Mals in the title then you may get a larger response :-)

Love both breeds, Suejaw but far too much grooming! Don't mind a daily brush but can't be doing with clippering big breeds.  I knew a fantastic BRT boy.  Solid as they come but he sent shivers up my spine as he would just watch everything going on.  The older lady that used to bring him to training had great control but he was some size of beast.  Totally intimadated me sitting there with my little Akita!lol. Even my Akita didn't look his way!!haha.

I may of missed it but was there a reason for not having another Akita if you like the breed?
How about a long coated GSD?

Is a Briard too much grooming for you?

The whole idea of a dog as protection leaves me with a cold feeling.
Turn this on its head.  What would you think of someone wishing to carry a knife when they are out walking, just incase? 
How would you feel as the innocent walker that they don't hear coming up behind them until it spooks them?

Personally I feel all dogs indended for protection should be in the hand of professionals.

All pet dogs should be totally benign towards human being at the very least and preferably to other dogs too.  I know some are not and some may surprise us but I think the aim should always be to damp down that side of their nature by breeding, socialisation and training. 

Stranger attacks are very rare.  The risk of attack from some other begger's protection dog is probably greater! :)

Suejaw, I won't have another akita.  The nature of the Akita is not what it should be in this country and I don't like the dog aggression.  And I won't pay the price for an Akita Inu.  These dogs were being given away and no-one would mix the lines except a select few back in my day yet now, it's all about the money.  Yet another breed being ruined by greed.
I love GSDs and that is another breed short-listed.  I would adore a big dark sable or black long-coat.  OH, on the other hand, is not so keen.

Stooge, I don't expect this dog to be anything but a family pet and companion.  I have no intentions of having this dog trained in any sort other than obedience and will expect nothing less than a stable dog.  Why would it be attacking strangers?  This dog would be socialised thoroughly with people and dogs.  And will be living in a home with my kids.  Do you think I would want a re-active dog? What if my sons fight? Or my toddler screeches?  I want a dog that gets up and moves to a quieter spot not one that attacks! 
You mentioned about carrying a knife.  Why is me walking a dog like that?  I can imagine a dog that's done bite work being thought of as a 'weapon' but surely having a loyal dog to accompany me would be like me taking along my OH?  He would do his damnest to procect me too and that's all I would ask of a dog as I would surely try and protect him(dog not OH!!I'm not that stupid!!LOL)should the need arise.  Out walking the other day, my girls got attacked by a BT and I stepped in and got rid of the dog.  How would it be different for a dog to do the same for me? 
I don't want a dog to 'guard' me so I can't stop and talk to people.  I want a family pet.  But, should I be running down a dark road or camping in the wilderness, I want a big dog to be seen to be on duty.  In fact, one of the breeds I have on my short-list is known NOT to be a good guard as it's too friendly but Joe Bloggs doesn't know that!

Sorry, I meant to add, stranger attacks are rare? Log on to any running forum then and see how often we are attacked for our phones, ipods, GPS's or just for fun! It's actually quite scarey when you are out alone and you come across a big group of people or worse, a single guy in the middle of nowhere(sorry men)with no dog.  Especially when you are at the end of your run and you have nothing left in the tank.

> Do you think I would want a re-active dog?

Good :)  I didn't mean you in particular just a response to some of the mentions of the hope that a dog would put up some kind of a show if the situation required it. 

> You mentioned about carrying a knife.  Why is me walking a dog like that?  I can imagine a dog that's done bite work being thought of as a 'weapon' but surely having a loyal dog to accompany me would be like me taking along my OH?

As above :)

> Out walking the other day, my girls got attacked by a BT and I stepped in and got rid of the dog.  How would it be different for a dog to do the same for me? 

Back to carrying knives again :)  If you want a weapon to deal with a weapon it all starts to escalate.

> Log on to any running forum then and see how often we are attacked for our phones, ipods, GPS's or just for fun!

Simple solution, don't run with anything valuable just a very cheap phone if you must.  GPS?  Carry a map :)

Cracar maybe you should ask for recommended breeds on a runner's forum? I'm not sure enough people on here run with dogs to really understand where you are coming from. Its a real shame you are allergic to ridgebacks because I'd say they ticked all your boxes! I do canix training and regular running with my dogs and I've tried really hard to think of longer haired breeds that other runners have and the only ones I can think of that I've met in action that meet the criteria you've described have been huskies and mallies, but of course you would have to keep them on lead in the majority of situations. Also, considering the length of time you can't run a larger breed pup while it grows, in your shoes I'd be scouting around breed rescues for the many wonderful family pets that are being displaced at the moment due to the economic probs.

I don't personally carry any of these except my phone which is a PAYG £40 on from Tesco!lol.  I run till I've had enough so don't bother with a GPS and don't see the point of an ipod as I put songs on my phone if I want but I go out to hear the nothing-ness! Can't see the point of something blaring away? But I do take my phone just incase but it's not on view.
Anyway, the point is, wether you have these things or not, you still get mugged as most people now expect someone to be carrying phones, etc.   

I wonder if these running forums are being a little alarmist :)  I haven't seen any reports of runners being attacked in my local paper and it covers some very deprived areas where crimes certainly do happen but, apart from pup brawls, very, very rarely to the person.  When it does and anyone is injured it makes front page news. 
I would think it enough to consider where you are running and just stop worrying.

I dunno where you live, Stooge but think yourself lucky.  The last 3 weekends (sunday lunchtime, sat night and a fri night) 3 people have been stabbed at the train station about 200 yrd from my house.  I know because I passed with my kids on our bikes and saw the blood dripping from the seat and the whole area was cordoned off.
My house has been broken into (one attempted, one got in) twice.  My shed has been broken into and my kids bike stolen.
People have been flashed at by a fat man with his willy out at a local dog park.
None of this has made it to the local paper.  Unless someone dies, it's not newsworthy these days.

Anyway, I did say a few posts back that it's not just about the running.  I could run in town in well lit parks or whatever going round and round like a little hamster but I love getting to the end of my road and into the country.  I can run 8 miles any direction that way without being near any town or village.  Why not have a canine companion that makes me feel safe?  And my spaniels get their own walk everyday anyway so it's not like they would be deprived of the run.  Why not?

I doubt the stabbings involved strangers or it probably would have made the papers and the other crimes you mention do not involve injury to person.

As I say, I live quite near a very deprived area and I probably would not chose to walk or run there alone at night with or without a dog.  There are other areas to chose.  Have you looked at your area crime map?  You will be able to see any areas that have any reported crime to person.  I suspect it will be a lot lower than you think even those involving known assailants.

I've just read your second paragraph about running in the country!  Goodness, I walk miles and miles alone in the country, happily carrying my GPS :).  If you are not expecting to see people for miles around what are the realistic chances of a bad'un waiting around for you to be passing? 

Blimey cracar,

360 turnabout coming here............

If I lived in an area with all that going on, stuff the run, not worth the worry, I'd get a treadmill (which I have anyway) pop my music on and run in perfect safety, or join a gym. :-)

Then just do my normal dog walks (your getting your fresh air and country walk still) and forget looking for a dog with a certain look to jog with, can't see the point in just getting a dog to look the part for the next 12-15yrs.

Treadmill and dog walk sounds fine to me. :-)

The thing is it's not all about actual crime statistics.  I live in a low crime area on the edge a small town surrounded by beautiful, empty countryside.  I know the area I live in is safe.  I have been known to leave my keys in the back door (on the outside) and the car door overnight and nothing came of it. Yet I have been able to terrify myself when coming home from a night out walking up my drive - the same place my car has sat with keys in the door all night.  When out walking my dogs in the day I feel perfectly safe.  But when I need to walk my dogs in the dark I don't feel safe with my two small breed dogs out in the countryside that I know is safe.  That feeling can totally ruin the enjoyment of the walk.  When I take a friends very large dog out with us I feel very safe.  Sometimes knowing you are safe has no bearing on feeling safe, regardless of all the statistics on how safe an activity is if it scares someone or they have had a fright that logic and reason will make not one jot of difference to how they feel. 

I can totally understand that when out alone with just a dog, wanting the added comfort and security of knowing that the dog is big and makes people think twice about approaching you.  If cracar has the time, capability, facilities and desire for another dog I see no reason for adding the criteria 'makes me feel safe when running alone'.

> If cracar has the time, capability, facilities and desire for another dog I see no reason for adding the criteria 'makes me feel safe when running alone'.

Nor me :)

> I doubt the stabbings involved strangers

I think that's the crucial point with all crime statistics, innocent strangers are very rarely targets, usually fights & stabbings occur among young lads known to each other. Yes I know that some people could reply listing pages of innocent people attacked but taken as a percentage of the entire population you probably have more chance of a decent win on the lottery :-)

However as Luddingtonhall said so well, it's all about feeling safe, so if a malamute makes you feel safe then go for it :-)

I imagine alot of people have a certain breed because it makes them feel safe.

I don't but wish I had the room, a bullmastiff would do for me just perfect.

Maybe it varies where you live but in inner Bristol malamutes are seen as cute and fluffy, even though they are big they are not seen in the same light as some breeds that peopel are more wary of.

Completely agree with your posts Stooge.
Back to Malamutes, I thought they weren't always great with other dogs?

> Why not have a canine companion that makes me feel safe?

Many years ago I lived in a fairly dodgy area with a (black) Labrador bitch who needed walking at night.  I "dressed" her in a big chain collar and used a heavy chain lead (which was clipped to her leather collar as well as the chain so as not to jag her neck), so that the local toughs would think she was a big fierce hell-hound.  I felt much safer with my girl in her Hound of the Baskervilles fancy-dress, and we were never accosted, so it may have worked.  However, someone more experienced than I pointed out that if we were attacked, I was putting my beloved dog at risk, either from the attackers or from the law (or both!). 
I didn't know then about teaching the "speak!" command, which might have been a better idea than chains.

The best thing came from taking a "self-defence for women" course, run at that time by the local police.  I don't know if the police still run them, or if anyone in your area is running them, but it gave me the knowledge and confidence that I could deal with an attacker without putting my girl in danger.  If you can find such a course, I'd really recommend it. :-)

Then you can get your Malamute anyway ... ;-)

> The best thing came from taking a "self-defence for women" course, run at that time by the local police.  I don't know if the police still run them, or if anyone in your area is running them, but it gave me the knowledge and confidence that I could deal with an attacker without putting my girl in danger. 

Way to go! :)

Maybe it varies where you live but in inner Bristol malamutes are seen as cute and fluffy, even though they are big they are not seen in the same light as some breeds that peopel are more wary of

I agree entirely Brainless Huskies and Mals are always IME seen as none threatening breeds......... so a Mal would not have the desired effect wished for.

There are a few cyclists in my area with Huskies, they always get an awwww response, guess that isn't the one cracar wants. :-)

I think it's my daughter that worries me.  I went out again last night without her and I was OK.  Don't think this is going to be an issue for long as she is only interested in keeping the running up till the race(next month) so after that, it'll just be me.
And, when OH came home last night we discussed out short-lists.  He shot mine down in flames and mine his!
Back to the drawing board.
Yup, Mals have been scored off because of the possible dog-dog aggression.

Hi again, too many posts to read through at the moment but in reference to what you said about not wanting a hound because they are disobedient I have to strongly disagree with regards to the greyhound. They have been bred for centuries to be biddable! While not all, or even many of them, may be up for formal obedience they are certainly easily trained to have good manners in the house/keep away from whatever you want them away from (counter tops!!) etc. :)

I am another who is very uncomfortable with the idea of dogs who will actually 'walk the walk' when it comes to protection - I can totally appreciate the potential risks when running alone, but in all honesty, those runs are a very small part of your day, as compared to the other 20 - 22 hours you are NOT running and NOT at risk..

I think a lot of the breeds suggested require a lot more work to get them sociable and safe 'in the community' and much of that work is going to achieve the opposite to what you want (a dog who actually does pose a threat to certain members of the community).

With any dog expected to provide some actual protection you are also asking a lot of that dog -we humans cannot always correctly identify another humans intentions and catastrophic and tragic accidents occur because of it, to expect a dog to correctly judge this in a split second is asking rather a lot.

My compromise in your situation would be to have a dog who LOOKS the part, a dog who physically would put off the vast majority of people, but does not actually have the protective tendancies of many of the breeds mentioned.

I have to say, I take my Deerhound out for fast walks (I use a mobility scooter ) and shes more than happy to run for miles beside me - people give her a VERY wide berth purely because shes a big dog. Im not suggesting you have a Deerhound (beyond that id suggest everyone has them because they are blummin amazing dogs) but something that has a presence and size about it that makes people think twice would be sufficient (that said, my deerhound bitch would have absolutely no qualms about offering to dismember someone who meant us harm as she proved yesterday when she caused a bailiff (there for someone else!) at my dads house to hurdle his five bar gate and conduct the rest of his enquiries from the other side of the lane!!)

The most protective dog I had (and also by far and away the best judge of human character) was my 3/4 saluki greyhound bitch -  she cornered a potential burglar in the middle of the night in our hallway and wouldn't let him move. As it turned out he was someone she KNEW and actually liked, BUT he had walked into my house at the wrong time (middle of the night) and he was in her opinion, not behaving safely (he was drunk AND on drugs).

Another option I have used is to teach a dog to bark very aggressively, or growl, on a discreet hand signal or whispered cue - that can be VERY effective indeed, without any risk that the dog actually will rip someones arm off.

theemx,  I have no intentions of getting a dog just to run with.  We are doing a lot of wild camping/kayaking(OH & kids, not me!) and my OH is having to work away again so I will be home alone with the kids.  I have no doubt that my dog would guard the house as I have said but she will do nothing 'guard-wize' outside.  I tried to train her to bark on command but we have spent years training her to be quiet for the field and she is so submissive outside that she wouldn't/couldn't do it.  She spent the entire exercise rolling onto her back!lol.  Pointless.  And even if I teach her to bark, She is wobbling from her shoulders back as her tail is wagging so hard!lol.

I have some ideas from here that I am researching but I am in absolutely no rush.  In fact, I'm at the stage that my house is so calm and peaceful so do I really want to upset that with a noisy, stinky, destructful puppy?  I'm back at the do-I-really-want-a-dog-at-all stage never mind what kind and while I am so undecided, I won't be doing anything.
Please don't think it was just about the running or even safety.  I've had big dogs all my life so it's a bit hard to have a house of little 'uns and be happy!