Some of you may know that I run with my dogs.  I have recently changed routes(running further) and now only take one dog with us, which is the only dog that could keep up/run that far.  She has, on a couple of occassions, shown a 'protective' side to her.  Once when my OH was coming downstairs in the full biker gear including helmet - she nearly ate him alive!, and again, when someone broke into our home through the kitchen - she maybe had a little chew!
But... outside is another matter.  She runs without a care in the world.  If we meet another dog, she will stop dead if it comes too close and wait till I 'save' her.  She sees people around me but still nips down to the beach for a quick sniff or paddle. 
Now, I'm in 2 minds here.  I didn't buy my dog to protect me but am I wrong to expect her to care slightly?  Or do I just have a dog who would let me be attacked without caring? Or does she just know I'm OK?
I'm not concerned usually but I'm running with my daughter and it's fine cos the lighter nights are coming in but I'm allready worrying about next winter.  Do I need a new running partner?(Please say yes)(Ideas on a postcard for breed type, thanks ;P)

I would be very worried about anyone running with a dog that might protect them TBH. How will the dog know that you need protection or not ?? Might just be another jogger running a bit close to you and the dog might react (or, from your previous posts, just a passerby) :( The risk to you of being attacked is probably minimal. What is riskier is that a 'protection' dog might misread a situation and attack someone, so it shouldn't be running with you off lead if there is any chance this might happen.

If you are worried about being attacked, just don't run or run with a male companion.

Thanks Daisy.  It doesn't necessarily have to be off-lead.  Just because I can/do with the little ones, doesn't mean I can't keep another on lead.  In fact, Most of last night, the springer was on-lead.  I'm pretty certain that after we do the charity run, my daughter is going to stop running which means I'll be on my own. 
Last night, whilst running, I kept feeling something hitting my head.  bearing in mind, I am in the middle of nowhere, about 9pm(darkish), on a rarely used farm road.  I got really freaked out and the more I looked into ther bushes either side, the more freaked out I was getting.  Turned out it was the toggle off my jacket but I didn't know that and was really worried!(Totally embarassed!!) But the dog was totally unconcerned, which now has me panicing.

> But the dog was totally unconcerned

Apart from getting a big dog that looks protective, I'm not sure what breed you could get. I have heard several reports over the years where women have been attacked/murdered while dog walking and the dog either hasn't put the attacker off or the dog hasn't defended the person :(

Should you be choosing a dog for this purpose ?? Aren't other reasons for choosing a dog more important ? I wouldn't have thought that most big dogs were suitable for running with anyway ??

I think most dogs would "protect" you if the need arose without any training. The only dog I have ever owned that actually looked like biting someone to protect me was my old Lab years ago. She was the softest girlie in the world but one dark night walking back from dog training in the park a man (Who I later realised I knew) reached out as he passed me to touch my arm. Amber was off lead out of sight and I gave a little shout of fear ( Did not recognise him in the dark ) and she came from nowhere barking her head off. I think she would have bitten if I had not grabbed her. I then knew who it was as he had spoken....
Aileen

> I wouldn't have thought that most big dogs were suitable for running with anyway ??

Why not?  So long as they're healthy and enjoy it, it shouldn't be a problem.  5 of mine would happily go running with me - everything from my 22kg lab/collie up to my 33kg dobe/dally.  He's actually going to be a steady running partner eventually.

Would not want to put my dog into a position where he had to defend me. We all know that the idiot law will protect the aggressor/attacker and your dog may end up being put down if anyone complains about him, even if he is biting someone who is attacking you. Remember also the Dangerous Dogs Act. A dog only has to appear to be out of control in a public place and you could be liable to prosecution. Do your dog a favour and buy a rape alarm/run in safer places if you are that worried.

am I wrong to expect her to care slightly?  Or do I just have a dog who would let me be attacked without caring?

:-D Remember, well socialised dogs are not afraid of people, they do sense a quickened heartbeat, they do sense angst from us, but also from people close by, if our dogs feel no threat or are not surprised from either party, they will not care........ quite rightly.

When it comes to feeling secure we do judge our dogs by breed and many breeds are not known as dogs of protection, just as likely to run and hide as help us tbh, but all dogs whatever breed have their own characters and personalities so never say never. :-D

I do always feel safe when I have my brothers GSD's with me on walks, but don't get to have them that often now only at holiday times etc, I know pretty much that they will automatically be at my side, and I also hope that anyone with bad intent wouldn't push a GSD, but at the same time I feel just as safe with the family BC's and terriers, I know without a doubt they would all see off anyone with bad intent, so size and guarding breeds don't always come into it.

Other family breeds are miss and match the gundogs, utility and other types of collies you just don't know as to what they would do in a crisis but...........

Dogs do surprise you! :-D

I remember being in the woods by my home once and I had some of my mums dogs with me (gundogs) along with my girl, as we were walking through a man appeared from behind a tree to the left of us, I was a little worried as I hadn't seen him and lets face it a man in the woods without a dog is a worry. (Sorry men :-) )

All the dogs walked past, nose to the ground not a care, the only dog who backed me up and made me feel safe, was my mums shy little girl, bottom of the pack, never says boo to a goose, but she looked at the man and stood right by my side and barked at him.

He walked off not saying a word (thank you, he was probably just an innocent man out for a walk :-) )

She came through when I needed her, even though if you'd asked me which one would give out a warning bark, never would I have chosen her. So, if this is the dog that loves to run with you, just leave it that way, not because I think she would protect you as that is anyones guess, but because any would be attacker does not know that she wouldn't **wink, wink** and that makes you pretty safe anyway. 

And, I know we all see them, but there really aren't boogie men around every corner. :-)

Well this is a subject people will always disagree on, but I got into Malinois BECAUSE I wanted a dog to protect me. And I have sold pups to people who wanted much the same, and indeed I have sold a pup to somebody who wanted it to go running with. (Can't be many more breeds more suitable for running to be honest, they never ever tire, cope well with both heat and cold, hips are very good indeed in the breed, and they don't age either.) With my first I made the mistake of thinking I best not socialise her with people as I don't want her to be friendly with strangers -big mistake, that's not how it works. Over the years I have many a time seen that a dog that will happily accept any stranger will change totally if faced with something threatening -if the person posing the threat is a stranger, not a family member. And I chose the breed for its looks as well, so that the mere sight may be enough to stop somebody in their tracks. But I'd NOT be happy if any of mine tried to protect me if there was no need!

Carrington, You have hit the nail on the head, as usual!!lol.  I DID have a quickened heart rate and I lost my breath as I was panicing(but trying not to alarm my daughter) as I really thought someone was there and it's a place where no-one except the farmer would be really and why would he throw things from the bushes at me?!lol.  But still, my dog didn't pick up on this?

I wouldn't get a dog just for running but I do like to feel protected.  Not necessarily from a guarding breed but a type of dog that no-one would want to take a chance with.  My gundogs are just too nice!lol.
This is where I miss my Akitas.  Stable as a rock and looked the part.  I just don't miss the dog-dog aggression that could arise!
Once, when I was out walking, my OH and his friend passed in the car.  They thought it would be hilarious to hide in a nearby wooded area and jump out on me(see what I'm married too??).  Anyway, they soon changed their mind as my male Akita had other thoughts and gave the 2 of them whatfor!  He didn't know it was them(why would he?) and he barked his little white socks off!  I would've walked anywhere with that boy.
That's the feeling I miss.  Knowing that you are protected but he doesn't need to prove it.

And, I can't remember who posted it but if my dog were to bite protecting me then I would protect him with my life too.  If that means hiding him and taking the rap myself, then so be it.

I got Ridgebacks for just the same reason, Marianne. I felt vulnerable, and wanted a dog that would look the part. A well bred and raised Ridgie will know the difference between people behaving normally and people who are being threatening. On more than one occasion, my first Ridgie got between me and a person who I felt threatened by. She most certainly didn't attack, but she stood her ground between us and growled. She was the most sociable of dogs in normal situations, loved people, children, other dogs and would be the first to try to sit on the knees of visitors.

I would certainly recommend a Ridgie as a running partner, they are a breed that have "capable of great endurance" in the breed standard. But, as with any other puppy purchase, be careful where you go ....

Ridgielover, I would Absolutely adore a ridgeback but unfortunately I'm allergic to the coat.  The short, prickly coat brings me out in itchy hives so as much as I love them, they are ruled out as are most of the breeds I love.  I would also have loved a bull terror at some point(and they kind of fit the bill that I like) as they are a great size. Medium size but HUGE!lol. 
But, alas, I am destined to forever have tumbleweeds of hair coming out from under my sofa as my in-laws walk in the door!

That is such a shame - I really think a Ridgie would have been a perfect fit. I must admit that the short hair can irritate my skin but I think it's worth it :)

So you need a longer coated dog?

I run with my Malinois. I choose to only take 1 when I run and generally she is attached to me although depending on where we go she is sometimes off lead. I know she would 100% protect me if needed but generally if i spot someone coming our way I just switch the the opposite side of the lane and carry on as she knows that is an acceptable distance for them to be to us. If its a narrow space or If they have a dog I just stop for a second and get her to sit as she isn't great with unknown dogs and allow them to pass us. Again she knows this acceptable and then we carry on.

I have a lab too who can't run with me for health reasons but I don't think he would bat an eyelid at another person, he'd probably pull me over to say hi, however at home is is generally the first one to bark if someone is near to the house or he hears a noise.

I've had a short-coated breed (didn't know about the allergy) but it was just impossible to live with.  It is so irritating and itchy all the time that I was like a ex-smoker on a night out!!  And my eyes get irritated too so it's just a big no.  Maybe you could send me a big boy and I'll test it??lol.  Funny thing was, the dog that started the allergy had a yeast thing on his skin and my friend who has dallys has said that it could've been the mould spores from this and not the coat.  But I can't risk it again.

Yup, I think it needs to be a longer coated dog.  But a Malinois? Oooooooo, I'm a bit scared.  Any I've met(bare in mind only at shz training) were 'tempremental'. Gorgeous, but 'edgy'.  I need a stable dog with my busy household.  Kids, small dogs, cat, noise, running, shouting, mess, more noise, visitors, even more noise!   You get the picture?

But a Malinois? Oooooooo, I'm a bit scared.  Any I've met(bare in mind only at shz training) were 'tempremental'. Gorgeous, but 'edgy'.

You SO need to meet Ripley at a show at some point! In fact I think a fairly large number of people on CD can vouch for her -she's a cuddlemonster who will do anythign for a treat. (Although apologies to a certain CDer whose finger was almost mistaken for a sausage at DD this year!!) :) When I bought her as a pup, I brought my 4 months old baby with me, and of course I have a house full of cats and Papillons. The more visitors, noise etc during puppyhood, the better the dog will get -that's my problem these days as my kids are more or less grown up and we now live in a quiet rural area.

>I DID have a quickened heart rate and I lost my breath as I was panicing(but trying not to alarm my daughter) as I really thought someone was there and it's a place where no-one except the farmer would be really and why would he throw things from the bushes at me?!lol.  But still, my dog didn't pick up on this?

Your dog was clever enough to realise there was nobody else around (no human scent) and certainly nobody giving off aggressive pheromones; so no danger and no need to get defensive!

The elkies, well mine and most I know,  are very sociable and treat everyone as a friend, unless they are given cause otherwise.

Not being a well known breed and being stockily built with a Wolfie/GSD type head they give most people pause.  I walk my gang very late at night and I live in a large city.

When choosing the breed I definitely wanted a dog that did not have overt guarding tendencies (lone parent with two pre school children) but wanted something that looked the part.

Cracar, I know where your coming from :-)

I used to feel really safe at night knowing Ben the TM was "on the job", but he did it purely through his massive bark and imposing physique, I'd have been mortified if he'd actually threatened anyone. He would quietly insert himself between me and any strangers he didn't know, no growling or any thing, but you can be sure it was enough to make people take a step back lol.

Now it's just little Daisy of the Dinkle, I wouldn't stand a chance in hell of her protecting me, unless she accidently nutted them while trying to give them a snog.

I'm another one who would be wary of a Malinois, I wouldn't be frightened of saying hello to one ( if it's owner was there ), but I don't know if it's a breed I would own, much as I admire their looks.

I'm another one who would be wary of a Malinois, I wouldn't be frightened of saying hello to one ( if it's owner was there ), but I don't know if it's a breed I would own, much as I admire their looks.

This is sad, because it shows the reputation the breed is getting -no doubt ALL through the bad breeders that have cropped up within the past 7-10 years. It never used to be that way! REALLY scary was the fact a friend of mine told me today she'd been shopping and in a town centre saw a gang of youths, the type usually showing off with Staffies, trying to look dangerous, laughing when their dogs barked and showed aggression at other people -except these people had Malis instead! When I got into the breed, everyone pretty much knew where every single Malinois owner in the country was located. These days, two thirds of the registrations are from people outside the dog fancy, and that's not mentioning all the unregistered pups and the crosses. Scares me witless. What got me into the breed was the fact they were such incredible softies PLUS being able to guard at the same time. I actually didn't like their look at all! They really are such soft dogs that are so devoted to their families, in many ways far softer than my Papillons -very cuddly dogs.

> But a Malinois? Oooooooo, I'm a bit scared.  Any I've met(bare in mind only at shz training) were 'tempremental'.

Here is my edgy, temperamental Malinois -
http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/tt221/purefinder/guest/rueandmum.jpg

As Marianne has said, they are very different dogs at home around their people. I know she is elderly (and so is the dog!LOL) but because they don't age, we don't really know how old she is (rescue). Just because she doesn't choose to run about at high speed most of the time, doesn't mean she can't... she has instant reflexes when it comes to cats (unfortunately). I am pretty much certain she was also a highly-trained dog in her past, doing tracking and bitework and the rest.

Saying that, though, I really don't think she would be ANY use protection-wise. She almost never barks at the door, and ignores anyone we meet on walks. The protective one is my BSD x BC who I am certain would give his life for me (and anyone else in my family or circle of friends). He has shown great instinct in the past - including being over-protective in a certain circumstance which is now all but rectified - and I would always trust his instincts about 'dodgy' people.

The thing is, I feel daft for thinking the way I do, as it's probably the same way a lot of folk feel about Staffords, which just makes me so sad for all the fantastic staffies out there. I should know better !.

I'm planning on going to the SKC in May, primarily to look at HWHV's but if Mal's are there on the same day I'm going to make a point of changing my opinion and go and meet some.

She is pretty gorgeous Sue.

Home from home MsT except mine are usually ON people's laps LOL. :)

One funny little story from today: I had bathed Rona, one of my Mali bitches. Let her out of the bathroom and the gang of toy dogs were there waiting -they all want baths and can tell when a dog is having one. Well this was Rona's first bath (came to us in December as an adult) and Monty the Cavalier didn't like the look of her all wet, so he jumped at her growling and snapped at her. (Very rare for him!) Rona just accepted it -Monty is a year older than her so of course he's more important as far is she is concerned, and therefore he can do what he wants. Then this evening when I fed the dogs my 3 month old Papillon puppy finished her dinner first and decided to take Rona's. Rona just backed away and let her. Puppy license, sure -but even so.

Here's what Rona did to my daughter a couple of weeks ago -she just climbed up:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150644606128811&set=a.235744798810.139969.537973810&type=3&theater

LOL, she makes the perfect lap dog !

Mine all like to sit on your knee too, I've had Heidi curled up on mine all evening, as soon as she got off Kody got on! Keeps your lap warm :)

> Home from home MsT except mine are usually ON people's laps LOL. :-)

They are so touchy-feely, I swear they would climb in under your skin if they could! :)

Gotta say though, they aren't dogs for everyone. You need experience of lightning-fast reactions and possible triggers (they can have the same type of chasing issues as BCs). I hate seeing "Shepherd experience preferred" [meaning GSD] when Belgians end up in rescue, because most GSD owners won't have experience of their mental speed - unless they are used to the high-drive working GSDs and have worked with them.

You would be better prepared for a Mali if you have had BC experience, in my opinion. My BSD x BC taught me well - as anyone who has owned both breeds can imagine, that combination is not for the faint-hearted. But my sister who has owned GSDs for 20+ years, and is a dog walker who has several reactive terrier clients, was quite shaken at the difference and has had to get up to speed with the way our rescue Mali thinks.

I hate seeing "Shepherd experience preferred" [meaning GSD] when Belgians end up in rescue, because most GSD owners won't have experience of their mental speed - unless they are used to the high-drive working GSDs and have worked with them.

Even then it's not the same -hence police often having to be retrained when getting a Mali after a GSD. Rona is a perfect example here of a dog and handler who did not understand each other -in my opinion anyway. She was in police training, but came back to me being described as nervous, not interested in toys, and not having a recall at all. ("Don't ever let her off the lead as she will disappear!") Her handler actually disliked her (he said so) -his other dog was a GSD. The dog he described to us is not the dog we live with as she is not nervous (not what I'd call nervous anyway -of course a pet dog and a police dog are two very different things, but she is LESS nervous than her granny Ripley who everyone considers bombproof), is absolutely toy mad (if nobody is around to throw a toy for her, she will pick one out of the toybox and throw them in the air herself! She's really good at retrieving and loves tugging), and has an excellent recall. Apparently her litter sister was ideal as a police prospect so goodness knows how brilliant she must be LOL.

I would have Rona and Dot and Fame like a shot (think Dot took a likeing to me :) :) :)
I used to run with my rescue rottie, off lead, 3 miles off lead and 3 miles onlead. until she was diagnosed with HD after limping for a while and not running and now cant even go for a walk or run in our large garden without limping :( :( :(
I ran alot on my own, but if I was on my own I would always run where I felt comfortable.
Best thing you can do is join a running club. Get to know people and you can do the runs with people.
I very rarely ran on my own even from the start 8 years ago (10k, half, marathon, for fun, atheletics coach) as joined a running club and had people to run with, who ran with me with my dog when she ran. I now need to get another dog that will run with me/my partner :) :)
(probably rules out the swiss mountain dog we were looking at!!!! (import register!) )
Lea :)

Marianne, Her body language in that photo says a lot about her nice temprement.  Also, I looooove your daughters hair!! FAB!
Ms Temeraire, I do think they are very BC like.  Like a tough BC? And they are becoming status dogs up here.  I suppose you shouldn't believe the hype cos I've heard there is not a dog in the world that can beat an Akita! Must be true, eh?lol.
Did anyone else catch the new dog program on BBC3 tonight?  They were using Malis on that! And, I must say, perfectly nice and trained ones too.
Celli, did you have a Tibetian Mastiff? Oooo, I adore those but they are moooohasive!! Think I could sneak a dinky TM in?

Yes I did, he was a rescue, only had him for 2 years before cancer stole him.
Don't know that a TM would make a great running partner, you'd be flat on your back half the time when the TM had decided to stop dead and stare off into the distance as they were certain they'd heard a car door slam 3 miles away.

> Even then it's not the same -hence police often having to be retrained when getting a Mali after a GSD.

Yes I have heard that too!
This thread has wandered, and once again made me wish there was a UK-based Belgian forum where we could chat to our hearts content posts pics etc... pet/show/working folk alike.... a first-stop for anyone interested in the breed/s. Unless there's a secret one I don't know about, I haven't found one yet and I just didn't gel with any of the overseas ones.

99% of pet dogs regardless of breed will not protect you if the need arose, most would stand and bark, run away or just fail to react.

Ive had a big male gsd that looked the part but when the need arose for him to help me out, he barked from a distance and peed himself.

I now have a PP trained dog that I KNOW would protect me, but because she is highly trained she will not react to people running at me/behind me etc etc unless I deploy her so I have no worry concerning her or others safety.

I have no problem with people getting a dog to look the part, but dont expect them to look after you if the need really arose.

>Also, I looooove your daughters hair!!

You too!   OMG it is to die for.  Having seen it I feel the urge coming.  Only trouble is, I recently tried somewhere new for a hair cut, asked to browse the colour chart, and when I pointed to THAT colour, before she had chance to think, she had said, oh you can't have that at your age!  :-)

But I do think I will throw caution to the winds and go red after that gorgeous pic.  :-)

    >Also, I looooove your daughters hair!!

You too!   OMG it is to die for.

LOL, she got fed up with it quickly and it's now a different colour again -she changes it very frequently. She is a trainee hairdresser. :)

This thread has wandered, and once again made me wish there was a UK-based Belgian forum where we could chat to our hearts content posts pics etc... pet/show/working folk alike.... a first-stop for anyone interested in the breed/s. Unless there's a secret one I don't know about, I haven't found one yet and I just didn't gel with any of the overseas ones.

No there's only the BSD Scene which of course is a mailing list so no photos, and 99.9 % show people -not so strange really when you consider that of the 4 varieties, ONLY the Malinois comes in show and working types. I left all the overseas ones myself, got fed up with all references to HAVING to use e-collars.

Malinois are not a breed I would recommend to anyone, having heard about them from owners and watched the judging one day at a champ show, they do seem very nervy and can be aggressive to other dogs, including their own housemates. I don't think a dog cowering behind your legs would put anyone off attacking you either :-/

They may not look 'hard' but what about a border collie? There aren't may breeds that can read your body language as well as they can, they can be good guard dogs, easily trained to stay at your heel and will run all day with you. They're generally fit, healthy and long lived. It would need some brain training too as well as the exercise though :-)

I don't do BC.  Far too clever and the only dog that has ever bitten me! (my fault completely but now I have inground fear)
Drover, I actually went to szhund classes once to learn a bit more about it as I was interested in doing something else with my dogs but it's not for me.  And, tbh, I think you might be wrong with your figures.  My most timid, bottom-of-the-pack, girlie has bitten to protect us when in the house.  In fact, I have no doubts at all when I'm in the house.  My girls would attack someone coming in.  My issue is outside.  Mainly when running but also the camping thing is worrying me too.  I don't think my girls take the protective thing outside their own home?
I don't think Malis are for me.  I remember well the amount of hair that came off the short coated GSDs when I was young! I couldn't be doing with that! I like either a short coated breed(which I can't have) or long coated which needs brushed out.  OH keeps trying to talk me into a larger gundog!  And in saying that I quite like the GWP(don't know if the coat would annoy me too though?)
Here's my thing, I need something with the stamina/activity level of a springer, A longer coat(or something similar to the springer-low maintenance), Big but not huge, and protective/off-putting appearance.

JeanSW, this is for you - You don't stop having fun when you get old, you get old when you stop having fun!!
You do whatever you want to your hair!! RED!!You must post piccys.  I'm a brassy blonde at the min thinking about my next colour........

Mali pack on here - why not start your own breed forum? Everyones club starts somewhere!  And you are right, with this being such a 'specialist' breed, it's definately needed.

> I now have a PP trained dog that I KNOW would protect me, but because she is highly trained she will not react to people running at me/behind me etc etc unless I deploy her so I have no worry concerning her or others safety.

Not if you get over the head from behind are unable to give the command :-D

I don't think a dog cowering behind your legs would put anyone off attacking you either :-/

You can't compare a day at a show with dogs in their normal environment, at home and during normal walks. I can assure you there is a huge difference.

Been trying to think of something that looks the part for you, but without short or too long hair to groom or shed, gosh it's a tough one you've given us here. :-D

As all the BSD's are out and the Elkhound, Huskies, Mals, take it Dobes, Rottis, Mastiffs, Corso, BC and terriers out too? What are we left with? :-D

Ok, what about the Borzoi (definitely not a guard or protection dog) but medium coat, can run the distance with you and even though it does not have the character you want, it does still look the part and people would be wary of approaching one, their build to me always looks as though they are on the hunt. Of course you have the stubbornness and the prey drive as a real problem, but you may well be good at handling that.

Just another thought to throw in there.............. not a typical breed, but that is probably why people may well be wary, just harder to handle so you would have to be fully dedicated.

When I walk my two boys through the lemon groves etc in the pitch dark they always make sure they keep me in sight, I have never had to call them.  Im not frightened but obviously wary but if my OH comes with us, they are every where and we hardly see them apart from an odd check to make sure we are where we should be on the walk and they have done this since they were puppies.  We regularly meet a man with a GSD on our morning walks and they have great fun together while we do the walk chatting, he turned up on one of our night time walks and I was a bit worried due to odd remarks he had made before, meeting some one in the day is a bit different to meeting them in the pitch dark in the middle of no where but straight away my boys fell in beside us one each side of me and stayed there the whole time.  He even commented on the fact that they werent running round playing with his dog like usual.  I think the majority of dogs will try to protect their owners to whatever degree they can.

I dont like the reputation my breed has but in certain situations is is nice knowing people are frightened of them.  We have a lot of burglaries here..........

Dogs are far more tuned into things than most people give them credit for and I for one would also trust their judgement on someone if for some reason they seemed wary of them.

Not sure if I have posted this in the right thread now but it wont let me delete only edit

What about an Australian Shepherd? They can be very protective and can run all day if you want, but also have an off switch. They are very smart, but not as obsessive or neurotic as border collies.

> Ok, what about the Borzoi

I must admit I never worried at all when out with the zois, but anything that size would do the same job - a deerhound may be an easier alternative as they are a bit more laid back and slightly more trainable but still with the impressive size and ability to jog along beside you. I have to say though that running like that is not ideal exercise for a hound who would much rather race around at full pelt for 20 mins then spend the other 23 and a bit hour sleeping, they could do it easily but they'd probably rather not :-) Also in common with most sighthounds borzois very rarely bark, some of mine lived their whole lives without barking once, so they're not great guard dogs :-)

I think in terms of fitness, stamina and guarding ability the pastoral group is definitely the one to stick to, I thought about aussie too but may be too collie like for the OP.

What about a Large Munsterlander or a Long Haired German pointer?  Both should be up to running.  They are a reasonable size.  Not overly guardy - but have a good presence.  Very trainable. 

If you are considering a GWP - then also think about a Hungarian Wirehaired Vizsla - slightly less hard-headed & very affectionate.  Which is right for you depends on your personality.

I jog with my younger greyhound. It keeps her extremely well conditioned for lure coursing and we enjoy doing something just the 'two of us'. I generally find people extremely wary of greyhounds which is ENTIRELY unwarranted but may help you!!

I don't think you've got any choice other than to pop the Piritons and have a Ridgie :)

Have you actually looked at Aussies? I've got one of those too :)

Chaumsong, that's exactly how I like to exercise!!23 mins full pelt then relax and eat the rest of the day!!lol.
Nah, Hounds are OUT! A family member has brought hounds into our vacinity and I must admit, I heave a sigh of releif when he goes home.  Not a jot does he listen and I like a smidgen of obedience with my dogs.

Carrington, Why are all those breeds out?  I just can't do short, sharp hair but I can do labs, rotties, (what's the black BSD called), that sort of thing.  I can also do long coated breeds like GSDs etc.  I have spent a lot of time recently rubbing strange dogs(or is it me that's strange!!lol) to see the reaction.
I would love a staffie or bull terrier though.  I really like the size of them.  Must go find some staffies to rub lol............

I also love the large munster(lol) and long coated pointer but again, would they put anyone off?

Rotties, no doubt, I love love love them! Even though I had a strange dream about one attacking me everytime it saw me and I managed to fight him off everytime(no chance!!).  That's a bit far with the image and he would be coming camping which some sites have started banning such breeds.  Wrong totally, but puts me off.  But the coat on a rottie is that bit longer so doesn't seem to irritate me.

DDB would be my choice for a dog for protection (may be alittle bias tho :) ) just the sheer size of a fully grown one is enough to put most people off, males are normally more guarding than others but have seen some bitches that are very protective of their family. Don't know how an adult would cope with running but most have a big burst of energy then like to chill, eat, sleep and slobber for the rest of the day :)

in regards to banning of certain breeds @ camping sites, just send the camp manager a picture of the DDB, not many can resist those huge, mushy face hehe!

> Mali pack on here - why not start your own breed forum?

It#s easy to start oen on 'Multiply' which is what al the MSN grouops got moved to.  That way you can have proper posts with headings, use the reviews for postign shwo and otehr results, phot albums, and ditto for  indiviidual pages like with facebook.

Your Group can be open or as ours members by invitation to avoid spammers and weirdos.

>Not if you get over the head from behind are unable to give the command

LOL, I would like to think my girl would make me aware of someone approaching from behind!

What about a long haired weimaraner? My weimies were always very protective (maybe dont look the part though).