Hi, I am currently breeding my two year old toy bitch Lola. So far I have only had two slip matings however as I also own the stud I have plenty of time to get a full lock. although I have breed dogs all my life I only started 2yrs ago on this breed and this will be my 2nd female of this breed I have bred. The thing I am so worried about is that when it comes to welping my female may not survive. The reason for this is that heartbreakingly last year my beautiful roxy sadly died having her 1st litter. This was heartbreaking as I felt she went through so much and it was my fault. Roxy had an emergency c section after giving birth to one live pup, she then sadly bleed out and had four heartattacks before slipping into a coma. Thankfully I was able to say goodbye to her before she past over. But I am still haunted and heartbroken about what happened and although I don't think lightening could strike twice and Lola has Bern tested and in the best fitness I'm just so scared as I love her with all my heart!

I just need some reassurance! Plz help

I'm so sorry to hear about Roxy, the experience you had would have put me off breeding for life?  Is it so very important to pass on this line to risk it all again?  I know I couldn't :(

I was going to say the same, if I thought my bitch was at risk and I felt as I do about her I wouldn't risk it and wouldn't breed her. Fortunately Golden Retrievers are easy whelpers so I doubted anything would go wrong and even the slight risk was awful. If you adore your bitch and the breed is known to have whelping problems I wouldn't breed her.

Thank you, no Lola is from a completely different line. Both dogs have been tested and cleared of everything. I have taken extra caution on everything but I'm just still so worried

Also forgot to say Lola is from self welping lines. I am not breeding from roxys lines at all!!

Well done for investigating the breeding lines , and taking health tests and precautions. Good luck .

But I am still haunted and heartbroken about what happened and although I don't think lightening could strike twice and Lola has Bern tested and in the best fitness I'm just so scared as I love her with all my heart!

Your braver than I.......... I've never had a difficult birth or any problems although I fully trained myself in preparation for any and have been at many whelpings where it was touch and go, but if I'd lost a bitch like that I really couldn't carry on, not with a breed known for problem births and not always taking to being great mum's to start with.

You must be totally into your breed and see a need to continue the lines that Lola is from to put yourself and your girl through this after what happened, like I said braver than I, I'd have past things on to someone else in my breed, couldn't take the heartbreak, so you must be a tough cookie to continue. I hope it is for the right reasons..............

No-one can predict what will happen, so reassurance is very hard to give, it is a worry that we all go through and we need to weigh up the odds as to what is more important to us.

In whatever you decide I wish you luck and I hope that Lola will be ok, is she from self whelping lines? A good vet is a necessity of course as often this breed needs a c-section and before a bitch tires and is put under too much stress, so keep a vet in the loop at all times throughout her being in whelp if you go ahead. (Though I guess you know that already)

Good luck and I really hope if you do still decide to breed that all will go well, I just don't think I could face it myself.

Thank you Steven I have honestly done the best I possible can for both Lola and they are exercised and they are fed on a raw diet, I have had genetic tests, blood test ect all done and they are both clear of everything and Lola is from self welping lines. I am just finding it hard to shake off the panic of anything happening.

yes i can see why! :(
about 16months ago, it was our last litter because we very nearly lost 1 of our girls after she had 9 pups by herself apart from the last pup being born after a trip to the vets for the jab (cant remember the name):(....well she started bleeding inside very bad and was rushed in for a em spay but it didnt end there, she was still bleeding, her blood count was so low the vet didnt hold out much hope and said the next 3h will be critical, we sat with her laying by her pups to weak to move she just kept her eyes looking at them, all of us crying and praying she would pull through and she did after this we got our other girls spayed and couldnt bring myself to go through that again, but i miss the thought of never having pups around :(

Oh I'm sorry about that but I'm glad she pulled through. Although I am finding it hard to breed this breed still I love the breed! I also am only 21 and would love to have a show quality pup that I no these to pups can create. I have done all that is possible to make sure everything goes aswell as possible.

if you can do it stay possitive get a good breeder to help you if you can and all the best with your girl x

I would consider myself very experienced in whelping toy breeds.  3 different breeds over the years.

I have worked on my lines for many years, and know what I'm doing.  In your position, if this had happened to me just the once, I would never have bred again.  I just would not tempt fate.  Like white lilly, I would miss the puppies, but could never mate a bitch again.

Some toy breeds I would want mated before 2 years old, but obviously I don't know what toy breed you have.

At your age, and on your second pregnant bitch, I can't help but wonder at your decision to breed again.  You can love a breed without being a breeder!  I would have looked around and asked to go on a waiting list for a pup with show potential. 

Have you considered buying a pup to show?

>The thing I am so worried about is that when it comes to welping my female may not survive.

This statement does make me wonder.

> You can love a

breed without being a breeder!

I so agree.
Choosing a good male dog, showing him and possibly becoming a stud dog owner might be an alternative?

Seems that those who own the boys aren't considered as contributing to the breed as much as the ones that own the girls, but one can't exist without t'other :)

JeanSW, I understand your frustration but this bitch is allready mated.  Horse has bolted.  I don't have any problems whelping my breed as they are easy normally but I like to try and maximise the chances of having a quick and easy birth.  I would love to hear how you manage to have self-whelping girls in such  hard breeds.  If your methods are helping, would it not be better to share the info for future generations? And I know, I know how you feel about the situation!!lol.  I feel the same way when a local man breeds the same breed as me but not as well!!
Things I do to maximise my bitches health during pregnancy and whelping -
I up-keep exercise and don't start cutting back until well into the 6-7weeks.  Not so much running but definately walking.  Most of my girls have slowed the pace but keep up the miles no problem.
I start giving raspberry leaf tablets from 5 weeks pregnant.  I trust these that much that I have taken them myself through all of my pregnancies!
Don't over-do the feeding(but don't under-do it either!) There is plenty info on-line to show you how much extra a bitch actually needs during pregnancy but most bitches will just eat and eat.  Putting on too much weight, I feel, is detriment to the bitches health and fitness.

All that info coming from a woman who's pregnant bitch is sound asleep on the sofa all day and only wakes to eat!!lol.(but I do have the raspberry tabs in!!)

although so far the op bitch has only had a couple of slip matings so may not be in pup as yet

There are many reasons for breeding, but your only 21 yrs old klt90 and yet:

Hi, I have also experienced the same thing with one of my females Rosie. (Boxer) She had previously had two healthy litters to my stud with no complications at all. However on her 3rd and final litter Rosie had given birth too 8 beautiful puppies sadly 3 was born already decomposing and one was born still born.

So 3 x litters to a boxer bitch also having the stud and indicating 'one of my females'
1 x litter to Roxy who unfortunately died (which did not put you off at all...)
And now this one, whom you also have the stud to.

How many of these dogs have been anywhere near a show ring? Are you just pumping out puppies here, sorry but not impressed at all.

I would love to hear how you manage to have self-whelping girls in such  hard breeds.  If your methods are helping, would it not be better to share the info for future generations?

It's genetic cracar.

> although so far the op bitch has only had a couple of slip matings so may not be in pup as yet

yes which I was actually thinking when posting.  My mind racing ahead, thought I wouldn't even try for another slip.  :-)

> I would love to hear how you manage to have self-whelping girls in such  hard breeds.  If your methods are helping, would it not be better to share the info for future generations?

Yes, it is working, and I've lost count of the times that I've posted my methods on here.  Unfortunately when newbies to the "difficult" breeds find that it takes years and dedication, they prefer the quick way.  Which is, mate regardless, you'll get pups even if you have to cut them out.

And when someone expects to buy a bitch from a self whelping line, they are amazed that I haven't got shedloads of them and can produce them at the drop of a hat! 

They certainly don't think mmmm   average 1-3 pups per litter.  Can easily have all male pups.  etc etc

Well, my hats' off to you, JeanSW and all the other dedicated breeders that try their hardest to better the breed when faced with such difficulties.  I definately agree that this girl will have had a close call if she misses but we all know that the ones that don't have the dogs best intentions at heart will try again regardless.  I hope we are all wrong :(

I was hoping for my first litter since 1988 when I had my Golden mated in January but when I found out that she had missed my first reaction was one of relief, followed by one of disappointment. I have never lost a bitch whelping but hearing such tales I know that I will not breed again. I have loved and enjoyed all the litters I have bred but my bitches are my number one priority and I would never put their lives at risk. I cannot even begin to understand how someone who has lost a bitch during whelping can then put another bitch in whelp. It seems an odd way to value your bitches. I shall buy any that I want in future. Let somone else have the worry. (Selfish I expect.)

"Buying the worry" against breeding your own... I like that.

Maybe that's what the price of a well-bred healthy, genetically tested puppy really means...
Includes x amount for the upbringing;
y for the goodwill,
z for the breeder's conscience,
and an unlimited sum for the test of integrity and stamina throughout...

Only last year that you lost your bitch.... whatever your reasons are for wanting to breed, you admit to only being 21, so I cannot for the life of me understand why on earth you would want to risk putting another bitch through whelping, when the loss of your other bitch must still be so raw. You are so young, so there really is no rush, surely ?
None of us can say for sure how we would react if one of our bitches died as a result if whelping, but my gut feeling is that if it didn't put me off for life, It would certainly put me off for many years. I would far rather buy in a quality pup at this stage if I were you.

I didn't lose a bitch, but my Bro almost lost his bitch, the story has been told before, they did everything right - all the research re best match stud, all the health testing available, the bitch was proven in the ring and in the field and in perfect health and fitness and a breed that whelps easily.  She had a singleton pup and didn't go into labour.  Vet was happy to wait but I told Bro he knew his bitch and if he was worried...

Good job he did, the pup was never going to be born, owing to the bitch having a physical problem with her womb.  They lost the pup and almost the bitch too :(  They never repeated the experience, preferring to buy in a pup.

After that I was reluctant to breed from my bitch (different breed) despite having breed mentors and being encouraged by knowledgeable people in the breed and assurances that the lines she was from were easy whelpers.  It was at least 3 years before I was able to even consider it.  Had it been MY bitch almost lost in such awful circumstances I would never have been able to, it's not an experience I would want to go through once let alone twice :(