i have a 7 1/2 month old puppy who has been quite a nightmare to toilet train.. she will go into the garden and wee and poo but is extremely lazy... she will go into her crate and wee or sometimes poo on the newspaper rather than ask to go into the garden which she does on occassion..  she never wees in the house anywhere.. I regularly take her and my other 4 month old pup into the garden and they sometimes go and i praise them when they do.. it has been quite cold obvioulsly over the past few months and she really didnt like to go into the garden in the winter but as the weather has been warmer we are slowly using the garden more..  I have just swapped to a smaller crate to see if she would prefer not to wee during the day.. I have their beds in the crate and they are allowed to go into the crate at any time.. bit she has taken to weeing on her bed now..    they are just becoming clean during the night .. i have never got up at night to let them out (due to back disabilities) and they are crated at night from 9.30pm to 7.30am.. i just cannot get to grips with the weeing during the day.
One other thing is that both pups have an uncontrolable desire to go upstairs, i have a stairgate to stop them because she also has a preference to poo in my older dogs bed !!  they get so excited to get upstairs... if i leave the gate open so as not to make it so exciting to get up there thats when she poos..   i cant seem to win !!   Tried keeping the crate shut today to stop her weeing in it.. thought that may help.
Any help greatly appreciated..

My only suggestion would be to go back to square one and start all over again, take her out every hour, going with her and waiting till she performs, also when she wakes and when she is fed. Somewhere along the way the training has gone wrong and she is confused as to where she should go so start again and she should get the hang of it this time round. The addition of another pup when she was so young may well be the reason her training has gone wrong so pick up all newspaper and start again.

the only thing with that is she wont go if i take her out every hour coz she doesnt need to go.. i know when she needs a poo got the timing right for that ..  and the other pup is much better at going outside than she is.. and they both go together everytime...  its just a bit weird .. dont understand why she is weeing on her bed sometimes..  and she can hold it most nights and does the other pup  ..in fact he never does his buisness in the crate on the paper at all..mostly in the garden and odd one in the kitchen ,,

If she has not had her first season she may be coming up to it and that can cause problems or it could be the other puppy but I still think you should go back to the beginning even if she does not go every time.

I'm sorry but I KNOW this is going to sound harsh but why get 2 puppies so close together when you have a disablitity stopping you training them to your full extent? I wouldn't take on 2 pups willingly and I am in full health! It is just such hard work and when you don't put the time in, things like this arrise.
Like others have allready suggested, you need to go back to basics. 
The weeing on beds sounds like a territory thing to me, claiming their space, so to speak.  They are all trying to find their place in the pack order.  I have an old girl who sleeps upstairs with us and the youngest girl will do anything to get into our room! She is, at the minute, trying to up herself in the pack over the old girl so I don't allow her to come upstairs.  I have another girl who won't come upstairs even if the rest of the house dissapeared. Hates it and wees if I make her come into our room.  She knows she is not allowed in 'Pack central' because she is bottom of the pack.  I have never stopped this girl from coming up, ever, she just knows dog rules better than me!

>she will go into her crate and wee or sometimes poo on the newspaper
>they are crated at night from 9.30pm to 7.30am.
>they are just becoming clean during the night ..

Crates are only any good for toilet training if you let the pup out when it needs to toilet (by making noises of distress and alerting you); if they're not let out they learn to mess in their bed - when you've got to go, you've got to go!

They are confined to the crate for a very long time, so they've become used to using the crate as a toilet area. My suggestion would be to put the crate/s away, change the beds (because they'll be associated with toileting in the crate) and confine the pup to a larger playpen-type area, a minimum of 5 foot by five foot, so that they can get well away from their beds when they need to toilet during the night. You might even have to take the beds away during the day. You'll definitely need to go back to basics and start again with the housetraining; it's much harder with two puppies, but if you've got two then you obviously have to accept that it going to be difficult.

I would also suggest you decrease the time they're alone at night; a late-night toilet break at 10.30 or 11pm, then getting up at 6am to let them out, might be all that's needed to get them clean at night and break the association of toileting in the crate.

Having a disability has not restricted me to training these puppies apart from the fact i cannot get out of bed during the night.. however as i stated they are clean at night...
the problem i have is during the day.. i have been taking both puppies out every time i go to the kitchen which is more frequently than every hour..
however the larger pup has just come in and pooed under the table...having been in the garden (with me)   she knows that she should go outside and she even has a special place to go but just really seems lazy..   she gets praise for doing her business and i just dont understand why we arhaving these problems..
they are both miniature breeds and i am home all day with them to 'put the time in'... i just cant seem to win....they dont like the cold or the wet and dont like to stay in the garden if i dont go out there with them, which i usually do.
they are walked in the morning regularily and will do their business in the park. I have shut the crate during the day so she cannot use it as a toilet and they are only crated at night or if i go out which is also quite rare..

I personally think that 9.30 to 7.30 is too long to leave a dog without a chance to relieve itself - this is the kind of thing you have to consider when taking on dogs. Also, dogs don't have an agenda; no dog is going to do something just to annoy you or because it is lazy, even though it might seem that way. Assuming there is nothing physically wrong with them, it could be that they are picking up your frustration and becoming anxious about what is the right thing to do.
I would try the following: Firstly, if you can put up with it, leave some mess and wee outside in the garden to give a clear signal where the lavatory is. Watch the pups, and put them outside after food and, more important, when they wake up. DON'T GO OUT WITH THEM. It could be that if your presence is an inhibiting factor,so watch them through a window. When each pup wees or whatever, let it in. You say they don't like being outside on their own, so don't give in to shivering etc.The reward will be being let back in, and you could also give a tit bit.
Of course, if they do anything in the house you must try not to tell them off, which I know is easier said than done. 

Thanks for that bit of advice..  the night time is really not a problem..... they have newspaper in the crate should they need to relieve themselves but they choose not to...     as soon as i come down to them in the morning they go outside of their own accord and do both toilets before they have their breakfast..

I already have 2 older dogs so i am used to training pups to use the garden  .. i just dont know why the elder puppy is having these little problems .. was just after any advice for during the day.. i agree that she may be picking up my anxiousness and have been trying a bit of the cesar milan deep breathing  LOL.. I cannot leave any mess in the garden as the older pup also eats the larger dogs poos.. so constantly in the garden cleaning that up..
thanks   

By putting paper in the crate overnight, you are giving the pups the wrong message. The whole idea of a crate is that they are clean in it until taken out to the garden. No wonder the dogs are confused and use it as a toilet during the day - the paper is giving them permission to do so. I never use paper in the house if I am home - it is your job to let them out to be clean and to stay with them in the garden until they do so. (Simply shutting them out by themselves will most likely be counter-productive as they just want to get back in the house with you. Plus you should be there to praise when they have emptied.) If they don't, then it's back in the crate (no paper) until the next time.

Remove the paper and make the crate smaller (by using a divider or placing a cardboard box in there so there is less room to make a toilet area), then start again from scratch as others have suggested. I take it they have separate crates at night?

It is totally unacceptable to crate dogs for 10 hours every single night. 

oh what are you talking about...

My other two dogs i have sleep the same amount of time uncrated but dont move out of their beds... sorry but your talking a load of crap]....
 
obviously that would be totally unacceptable during the day.. even for people who work... but this is nightime.. i dont have a room where they can be allowed to roam at night. the crate they are in is a 4 foot crate..  which belonged to my weimy as a puppy..

I dont understand why people are just focusing on the crating at night  when i have already stated that there is NO problem during the night ..they do not mess their crate ... i can hear them if there were to be a problem.

Hard to give advice to someone who is not prepared to listen.

Sad really, seems none of the suggestions is considered to be of help and that the OP knows best anyway. I can't think of anything that has not been suggested so perhaps best if the OP struggles on and hopes the pup becomes clean although it would be best for the two pups if the regime were changed.

i have taken on board all that people have said that has been 'constructive'  apart from the night crating..which has no relevance to my daytime routine..
it has helped over the past few days that i have been able to have the back door open and they have been going out freely as well as me taking them out... I have put them out together and shut the back door rather than go out with them... we have had less accidents... the younger pup has taken to it really well but i had no real trouble with him...

i think maybe the real answer was closing the crate door not allowing the older pup inside during the day this has made a great difference in encouraging her to go outside rather than on the paper in the crate...

Thank you for your kind words hoping that i continue to "struggle" ... shows what caring people there are on champdogs and reminds me of the reason i decided not to come on here over the past few years.. and i hope that other people read this and realise what righteous people there are about on this site...

and i hope that other people read this and realise what righteous people there are about on this site...

We have passed on the results of our experience most of which you have dismissed so I don't when the giving of acquired information became righteous but as far as I am concerned long may it continue. Sorry we can't help you but you can't win them all.

BettyBoo1963, I'm sorry you feel that way.  I feel I did give good advice though.  I said that you should go back to basics with the pups.  Other than that, I have no idea how you can sort it.  But when you answered my post(and others since), I felt it was a bit abrubt so decided not to post again until you are putting down this good website. 
I'm sorry about everyone focusing on the night-time routine but THEY are sharing a 4 ft cage for 10 hours per night?  2 pups in the one cage for 10 HOURS!and you can't see why everyone is focusing?  My dogs have small beds, I agree, but they are free to stretch and move as they see fit.  I don't see it as a toileting issue at night but it is definately an issue.
And you are the person that brought up your invalidity at night-time.  I don't think that a able person should have 2 pups so when you posted about your mobility problems at night, it just highlighted your inability to look after pups.
I do feel that no-ones answer would've been what you wanted.  But,for what it's worth, I would spend the next month taking both puppies outside to do their business every hour.  You say you have other dogs so let the pups follow the older dogs outside to learn that's where you go.  But nothing works better than loads of praise when they go in the right place.  I might also try and take them out separately to focus instead of making it a playtime but you might not have time to do this.

Excellent post Cracar (though probably not what the op wants to hear lol)

Hi again people... i genuinely took on all the advice given and would like to say that since my first post the issues have quickly resolved themselves..
I went back to basics, although i didnt really stop with taking them into the garden at regular intervals.. I have closed the crate off during the day and the older pup who was only the one with the problem has been using the garden regularily.. I have had no accidents in the house at all.

I was genuinly upset at the fact that my disabilty was used against my ability to care for my dogs..   They have been a life saver to me over the last few months due to some personal stuff and had i not had them then to look after i may well not be here..  If i didnt have to get up for them in the mornings i dont think i would have got up at all... Not looking for sympathy obviously but wanted you to be aware that asking for advice was all i was looking for !!
I didnt want to get into an argument, the puppies are chihuhauas so a 4 foot crate gives them room to stretch at night should they need to.
Anyway just wanted to clear the air  !!

I am glad the situation has now improved and would add that I most certainly did not hold your disability either against you or think it a reason why you should not have dogs, my comment was because it seemed, to me at least, that everything that was suggested was not helpful as far as you were concerned.

However you say your problem no longer exists so we are, I am sure, pleased for you.

BettyBoo1963, I'm so glad this is resolving itself.  It might have helped in the beginning if you had mentioned the breed as toys are much harder to housetrain.  But you are on the right track and that's all that mattered.

Just a quick point though, you should'nt think that it was about your disability.  An able bodied person doing the same as you would've came under the same critisism.  And I will never agree that 2 puppies at the same time is a good idea.
Best of luck now with your pack!