Does anyone know if this is true or have any more info if it is?

I was talking to a scottie person who was saying in france, you can get a
judge to confirm a cross bred dog is a certain breed - he was saying he has
known of people to cross a westie to a scottie (to improve coat etc) and
then you can take the pup from the mating that is most scottie-like and
enter it into a show for a judge to confirm it is of sufficient breed type,
and it is then registered as a scottie. I don't know any other info but
surely that can't be right and there must be more to the process if its
true?? He reckoned its where wheaten in scotties and white in schnauzers has
cropped up, along with some of the more unusual poodle colors.

Im going to My first French CAB show next month, I'll see if I can find out.

Thank you :) I am nt sure if it is true if it's only a french thing or FCI or what.. would be interested to find out!

Well all FCI affiliated countries have to abide by the FCI rules, and there is nothing on the FCI website about it in any of the breeding rules documents.

so it's probably not true. that's good to know!

It sounds to me like someone has misunderstood the process rather a lot.

You CAN, in the UK, with permission from the Kennel Club, outcross to another breed.  You would need to do this with the aid of the Breed Club relevant I would think, and there is FAR more to it than just one crossbreeding and then picking the pup that most resembles the breed you are working with. They would want to see that the line produces dogs that go back to looking like the breed in question and breed true (ie, do not produce throwbacks!) for a certain number of generations.

There is also the situation where some kennel clubs (and I am not sure which ones) HAVE decided to allow a dog of unknown parentage to be registered as a particular breed - but again this is not done lightly and is only done in situations where a breed is numerically very very small.

european friend had said this "in most FCI countries, as far as I know, the breed-register is still open
for nearly all breeds. The register is not the "regular" stud book but sort
of an attachment to it. Hard to explain especially as english is not my
first language.
If you have a dog that looks like a Border Collie you can go to a breed show
and after the judging is finished you ask the judge to evaluate the
phenotype of your dog. If it resembles a Border Collie you can register it
with the breed register. You can than do everything you want with this dog i
e. breed. You get register pedigrees for the first three generations and
after that you get full stud book papers. Since, I think, 2010 ( I can be
wrong with the year) you can even compete with these dogs at international
sport events like the FCI Agility World Championships."

Which is what the original person I think was trying to say?

But are you saying that you can enter a dog in a breed class even if at the time of entering it is not recognised as that breed.

Can understand that you can do obedience or agility your can register your dog for that in the UK but to enter a show in a breed class you have to be exhibiting that breed not just something that looks like it.

my understanding of what is written is you ask the judge after judging
so take an unentered and unregistered dog to the show but it isn't shown

But if one judges says "yes, that looks line a Staffordshire to me" does that then mean you can enter that dog in shows in the Staffordshire breed classes?

from what I've been told, yes.

Gosh! well I could tell you if it were an Elkhound with certainty but I could not be trusted with some breeds to call a breed a pure bred on the word of one person sounds very dodge to me.

Went to my first show here in France last week, and from what I can gather they have what is called 'Conformaty' This has to be done to breed from yr dog in this country rather than to say it is a certain breed. The owner has to produce all the registration papers, all the health tests needed by the breed, and also a 5 generation pedigree produced by the french KC. It seemed very thorough, not just a question of turning up with a dog that looked like a certain breed and then given the said stamp. I have a 5 yr UK SH CH, if I register him in france and someone wants to use him at stud on a french bitch, I have to go through all this as well. regardless of the fact that he is definitley ' what it says on the tin'.
I think it seems on the face of it to be an excellent idea, at least breeding stock then has to have the relevant health checks.
The only odd thing is these checks appeared to be taking place by the judge before judging, so 'anonymity' goes out the window. ( In fact that doesnt seem to go for much here, as when the judge was going over my boy in the ring she asked me what winning he had done in England!)
So I dont think it is really just down to the word of one person.
Hope that is a little helpful

What you are refering to is called Initial Registration. Our kennel club also does it. Around 10 years ago they stopped doing it for foreign breeds (only Portuguese breeds could do the IR) and now they do it to all breeds again (money? It costs 60EUR, plus registration fee if the dog is accepted).

It's usually done during lunch time, and since my breed is usually early in the morning, and most of the times I end up staying for the group, I watch it whenever I can. It's done by two judges, and the dogs have to get a Very Good or Excellent.

A dog that gets the initial registration can't have Sh Ch titles, and the progeny will only have a full registration (in France it will be LOF, here is called LOP) by the third generation.

Having said that, the last one I saw, there were around 10 dogs, and none passed.

Yes, this does happen in France. The dog goes in front of a judge for its' conformation at 12 months or over depending on the breed. If the judge says 'Yes', then it is what it is. In my breed this happened quite a lot going back some years, also the breed register is still open, therefore crosses can and have been done. On the pedigree there is no sire or dam listed, there is  no history, it is known as Titre Initial (TI) and is entered as such into the LOF (book of Origin). I know of one case in very recent history in my breed where the breeder in North America did not forward the registration or Pedigree, so the only option was for the dog to go in front of a judge for confirmation in France.
I have just recently had a litter, they are not a breed that is recognised by the Kennel Club,though the French Kennel Club SCC has been issuing export pedigrees for them. If pedigrees or registration were not available via either kennel club, then this would be a sure way of registering any dog in my breed that is born in non FCI countries.

Just to add, pure breeds can and do fail to pass conformation, and yet cross breeds can pass and be registered!
Conformation does not require any health tests, it is just purely to see if the dog resembles the breed it is. you don't need to go to a show either for it, as there are confirmation sessions all over France each month, or you can even turn up at a judges home (if you know them)!!!