My sister -in - law collected her new puppy on Saturday. She has been very unwell recently and although she should have collected the puppy a week earlier at 12 weeks, she could not so the breeder hung on to the pup till this weekend gone.

On Sunday she collapsed and was taken to hospital. I took new puppy to help out as there is no one else. (divorced from my brother) She is going to be in hospital some time and needs and op with long recovery period so there is no way she can keep this puppy.

I contacted breeder for her Monday to see if puppy could be returned and policy regarding refund. The pup is KC reg. Came with a beautiful impressive 5 year pedigree, sales contract which stated that the puppy must be returned to breeder if can no longer keep etc.

The breeder has responded with great commiseration over Sisters plight and will take the puppy back and try and sell it on. She has stated that as the puppy is now a lot 'older' (2 days older) there is no way that she can sell if for what Sister paid, and will not take the pup and issue some form of refund.

I would keep the pup myself but I have one that is only a month older and already after 2 days of looking after this puppy I am in chaos. My puppy who was reliably housetrained is now peeing inside again. I cannot get her attention as she would rather play with pup - I am sure everyone knows the scenario of getting 2 pups DON'T, and I never would, so the pup staying with me is not an option. It would be okay if my pup was much older - year or so.

My Sis has asked me to deal with the situation as best I can, it is too much for her to make a decision herself. The breeder is an 8 hour round trip away for me to take puppy back and I am willing to do so but should I not ask for some sort of contract terms etc. ~What if the puppy does not sell, or breeder sells for very low price. How long should breeder be expected to keep pup if it does not sell. Should she charge a boarding fee. Should I take KC reg papers back to breeder as they have not been changed into ownership of Sis. This means that breeder not only has the puppy, but a considerable amount of money paid for the puppy a couple days earlier but also puppy still appears to belong to breeder. This all seems rather risky to me. The other option is to try to sell puppy on for my sis but this seems rather a minefield for me.

I really do not know how to deal with this for the best and any advice  would be welcome.

Have you seen a copy of the contract? Most contracts I've seen and/or read have a point that the puppy can be returned to the breeder within 7 days for a full refund providing the puppy is in the same condition as it left the breeders if changed mind. Some put in clauses about attending vets etc.

It is very mean hearted for a breeder not to be refunding fully tbh in this situation. If there is a difference of say £50 then personally I'd just go with that. I'm taking it the breeder kept the puppy for a lot longer than the rest of the litter due to your sisters situation?

Hope this gets resolved but once it's returned it would be of no concern to yourself or your sister who the puppy is sold to and when I'm afraid.

Wishing your sister a speedy recovery x

If pup was kept the extra month for the OP's sisters convenience then dending on breed availability (may people won't consider an older puppy if there are lots easily available at 8 weeks) it may not be as saleable now, and it would be fair to expect less than paid, and to wait for the money until pup found new home, and also expect to pay expenses that will be incurred.

It was only kept an extra week

Hi Daisy,

While the financial reimbursement offer may seem harsh, it's not really the most important thing. The fact that the breeder will take the puppy back, and that is clearly the best option or the pup, should override any financial considerations. I wouldn't put the puppies future at risk by trying to negotiate better terms.

the breeder done your sister in law a favour in keeping the pup an extra week
as they might have easily sold the pup to some 1 else in that week they kept hold of the pup so now they will have more advertising fees to pay ect and will affect the selling price
although not to give you any of your money back is a bit harsh
but you have to keep in mind the welfare of the pup as you said you cant keep it
so it would be better of in a new home asap

Just to add. If you don't push the refund issue, would the breeder be prepared to meet you half way on the journey to pick up the pup?

I Have seen the contract. It states puppy can be returned within a week if found to have a defect diagnosed by a vet along with a vets letter confirming the same. It does not mention a refund even in those circumstances though.

The puppy is not a common breed, and therefore was quite expensive, talking 4 figures. Sis had left a £300 deposit. She would have been happy if purchase price less deposit was refunded quite honestly.

The puppy is only a week older than the other pups when they left so not an older puppy by any means. It's a beautiful puppy make no mistake.

Surely it can't be quite right to just return the puppy and all paperwork and just walk away with no knowledge of what is going to happen to the puppy. Quite willing to pay expenses for the puppy to be boarded at the breeder if necessary, but i thing that there should be some sort of contract in place as to what should happen.

Personally in this situation I would not be returning the puppy without some sort of refund from the breeder. For such a large sum of money there is absolutely no reason why at least 50% could not be returned on the return of the puppy and IMO it should be the full amount less the deposit. Its not all about money but, there is no reason why you couldnt advertise the pup yourself and find her a lovely home as that is the main priority and if the breeder wants the pup back then they should at least be giving some sort of incentive for you to do so. I have heard of some not so reputable breeders using this type of situation to make excuses to just keep the puppy themselves and then return nothing to the purchasers, which is disgraceful when the new owner has done the right thing. At the end of the day they did know that your sister wasnt doing well health wise and this is not in any way her fault.

Sorry to hear about your sis, Daisymae xxx

Could you contact the breed club and see if they have any guidelines on this? maybe an approximate price/going rate for a pup of this age? how well and how much pups hold their price and for how long?

I too think this breeder is being very mean, it's not as if your sis has just had a change of mind.

Hope it all works out for you xxx

Have been trying to get into breed club but something wrong with site at moment. Looking for a number to see if anyone in the breed club would care to take him.

I know for a fact that there are puppies of this breed for sale, much older than this puppy 5/6 months etc going for more. She was bred from the lines of one of the top breeders/show kennel close by to this breeder, who obviously appears to have sold puppies to this breeder from which she has bred the litter that this little chap came from.

I do think she is being rather mean but research has shown that she is a licensed breeder, and not a shower of the breed. She has other breeds for sale as well as x breeds. She clearly is in it for the money as she does not mind if he is sold on privately. She is running a business, not breeding pups for her own need and for love and care of the breed.

I have advised my sis that I think at least I should register ownership in her name with KC for at least some protection as to who owns the puppy.

In that case well done for doing your research and keeping her with you. You are far more likely to vet homes properly. And she would probably kennel the pup at this crucial socialisation time.

Is there any chance of having the puppy fostered until your SIL is recovered?

Firstly, I'm really sorry to hear about your sister-in-law I hope she will recover well and you are a star to be taking on the responsibility of all this. :-)

You know daisymae I can be very cynical sometimes and would be mighty peeved that a pup I had just homed and kept for longer for the new owner was now being returned just two days later, I may or may not really believe that your sister-in-law were in hospital as I know how people lie, but even at my most cynical that puppy would be back in my home and you most certainly would have a refund with at the most a £50 reduction, nothing more than that, the breeder is being totally out of order here.

My gut instinct says don't take the pup back, you may well lose the pup and the money, you're not talking peanuts here! Your sis-in-law has paid a large amount of money, I have a horrible feeling after your last post that this could be a puppy farmer and although money is not as important as a pups welfare why should anyone give away a £1,000+. Your right to worry that if you give up the pup, the papers and have no money at all refunded, that could be the last you will hear from them.

Keep trying the breed club for help, look for someone recommended in your area to just help with vetting even and find this pup a good home, I would not take it back to this breeder.

Carrington: I understand some people can and do lie regarding reasons for returning a puppy, however in this situation I can easily obtain a hospital letter for her to support her story. If I was a breeder who cared about my pups I would grab him back if I thought someone was returning him and lying, not knowing the truth and be thankful that he had not gone to an unsuitable home and be glad to return if not all the money, at least a good portion of it.

I also think you are right in that he would be kennelled. I think that is where he probably was as although he was described as being brought up in a family home, my 19 year old grandson has just arrived for tea (grandmas cooking is best LOL), puppy has gone screaming out into the garden extremely fearful so he obviously has had little or no experience of men! He has completely shut down from being an extremely bossy, confident and noisy pup to hiding. He has even had my own, older pup defering to him and backing off when challenged for food, toys etc. He is not the same puppy.

I also find it amazing that this breeder told my sis that he was well on the way to being toilet trained and was used to going outside if the kitchen door was open. My door has been open from 6 in morning till 9 at night, and puppy is playing in garden quite happy but comes indoors and pees on kitchen floor and goes back out again. I have tried puppy pads but he just ignores them. I think he has been used to peeing on concrete or hard floor. mmmm

That is nothing new daisymae, :-)

By the time my pups leave my home they are (apart from night time when I am not there) 99% toilet trained, I constantly call the pups to follow me out into the garden from the moment they have had a nap, they are so used to going outside that they naturally just go out to toilet and my pups new owners when visiting are always shocked to see them poo and pee outside whilst there.

However, that is because they are used to my home, they know what to do, where to go, they are used to my voice calling them and they are used to the scents in their part of the garden many being their own, along with doing what their siblings do it is always faster when a brighter pup picks it up first the others follow, so it is not hard to toilet train at the breeders. I always tell people that even though they can see the pups are going to the toilet mostly outdoors that it will probably change at their home and they need to be on top of toilet training with praise and reward the moment they get home.

They have a new house setup to get used to, a new garden, new scents of which they will want to put their own to, a new voice, new people, no siblings to follow, so even though the initial learning is there, it all has to be started again in a totally new environment, all I am showing them is that the pup will be toilet trained eventually as it is in my home but it takes time and effort once again. :-)

So, perfectly normal for this pup to have digressed, just keep on with the training. :-)

Remember a pup does not know that it is ok to pee in the garden but not in the house, you have to praise the garden pee and ignore the indoors one, that way a pup learns outside = good, inside = no reaction! Pups love praise and a happy voice they learn so fast if you use both. :-)

I had a puppy returned after a month (after she'd spent a week with me, preplanned for a holiday) and to be honest was glad to have her back, she arrived with kennel cough (thanks!) so had to stay with me a while longer but I re-sold her for the puppy price and refunded the first buyer (less I think £10) ... she was new to dogs and really I think treated the pup like she was a robot as she was unnervingly well behaved... she changed her mind a few days later, said she would change what she was doing but I felt the pup had been through enough.. she got another dog and that seems ok so hopefully she did learn.  I was worried when I had her, and also when she picked her up and didn't make a fuss of her :-( she went to a lovely home. 

You have offered the breeder the option to return but had an unsuitable response in return. I would be concerned that the breeder would also lie to you about the resale price so they could make even more profit (in addition to the 4 figure price tag they got from your sister), as they do not sound like caring people to me. I would transfer the pup into your/your sister's name and rehome the dog myself as you can vet the new home yourself as well as get on with socialising him as well in the meantime.

I tend to agree with Marisa.

4 figures is a lot, but it seems even if the puppy went back to the breeder, you have no guarantee of a refund. Time to put money aside and consider this little dog's future...

To be honest if i was this pups breeder i'd have made arrangements and the pup would be home with me by now and you would have had a refund (maybe less fuel costs )

if i was the breeder i would refund all but the deposit ... sounds like she wants to keep the original amount paid and then most likely re sell for the same so is making double the money or am i being cynical here

Don't think you are being cynical at all. As my sis - in -law paid £300 deposit, it is a lot to lose and then the breeder sell for the same price again. I have now found the puppy a fab new home, no trouble at all so it is a happy ending for the puppy which is the main thing. Thanks for all your advice.