Hi everyone,

Sonny has just 'gone' for my husband! Totally out of character for him to do this as normally, Sonny knows his place as far as Martyn is concerned. He was stroking his ears - something that Sonny normally likes and suddenly he turned and bit him:(
We called his trainer who said that it was either fear or dominence and were his ears okay? I looked and couldn't see anything obvious but perhaps a visit to the vet is needed to check there's nothing going on inside.
It's a bit worrying as the boys love him but are developing a fear of him - not helping things at all.
Any advice would be welcome.

Ruth

Get a vet to examine his ears - he could have an infection very deep down that you won't be able to see. That will make his ears very painful, which, if it is this, would be why he bit.

Please don't everyone jump down my throat but.................. it is not unusual for Golden Retrievers to bite for no reason, their unpredictability is becoming VERY worrying.

Firstly though, I would agree with jeangenie and get his ears looked at in case they do hurt him.
Dawn.

god!!!! when did this become a problem in the breed, id no idea, most i see look like harmless soft things, im honestly shocked!!!!
and again, the dog could of-should of warned if in pain, or got out of the way, a bite is unnaceptable. why are the kids frightened of him, how old is he ?

Dizzy, if her husband is anything like mine, he will have been fondling the dog's ears while paying it absolutely no attention, watching TV or something. The dog goes through the whole range of warnings until it finds one that works!

if the dog saw the owner as higher ranking it would of backed off-took itself away, -im sorry but im shocked at how many dogs are biting these days, :( more so in a non guarding breed!! not that i condone it in them either
what happened to a yelp!!!!

Even the nicest dog, if in pain, is likely to bite, even its owner. Vets will tell you that.

if theyre been held down or forced-this dog had every option of moving away, !!!!

Sorry, but I believe its an instinctive reaction. Not to be welcomed of course, but many behaviours are not what we like.

Also, because goldens are a popular breed, they, like many others, have suffered from the numbers of badly bred puppies churned out by puppy farmers, who put no thought whatsoever into the quality of the dogs. I'm not saying Sonny is one of these, but the temperament of any breed that becomes popular goes down the pan. :(

My other half got bitten bu a farm bred BC last year, we were looking after him and I did warn he hated being handled but there you go. He's actually a lovely dog but just can't take touchy feely stuff at all :)

I would agree a vet visit to just ensure that it isnt a health problem. Remember that if a dog's behaviour changes suddenly it may well be a health problem :)

My friend has a Goldie, she has always said he was an "angry little puppy" but he is fine now. I have heard, not sure though, that their temperaments aren't as they used to be at all. Cant remember where i heard that, maybe even CD's.

Lindsay

Hi Dizzy,

The kids are more nervous at the moment than frightened because they've heard Sonny growling, etc. It's confusing for them too because 99% of the time, Sonny is loving, affectionate and loves to be with them.

Ruth

whats makes him growl, he sounds like a real handful.-i hope you manage to get ontop of him, -be careful with him and the kids, how old are they ?

Dizzy,
This is the strange thing! He's not a handful at all! People have commented on how well behaved he is for a Golden puppy, which is why it's a worry.
The boys know not to aggrevate him and to give him a bit of a wide berth at the moment.

Ruth

I have met some that had anything but soft temperament, but on digging further they turn out to have pedigrees of pet names, so probably puppy farm bred.

I know one bitch who belongs to my freind (experienced in dogs) who homed a bitch of a year. She was very dominant around food, and would go for people if they went by the cupboard where her treats and food were stored. My friend saw this as a make or break sit=uation, she made it clear in no uncertain terms that she would never tolerate this behaviour, no way. She was also very dog aggressive, but being very playful learnt to toelrate, and then like other dogs, after playing with one of my pups, then the dam, and then other dogs.

She also has a very strong guarding instinclt, and would bite an intruder. She also dislikes strange men, and if one comes to close will attempt to bite, though over the years (she is now 11) this has improved, again by her knowing that the person with her will not put up with this. She does need firm handling. Her saving grace is that she is very good with children, has never viewed them as a threat, and never guarded food or toys from them.

Hi Sunny, could you please remind me how old he is & what age you got him & how long he`s been with you? I have known & heard about the temperaments of the goldies being iffy for a few yrs but never come across it yet myself.
Christine, Spain.

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for the replies.
Sonny's a six month old puppy, Christine and love rough and tumble, grooming and generally being handled. There have been a couple of occassions that he has done this and I'm only glad that it was my husband's hand he bit, not one of the childrens'! His skin's a lot tougher!
Anyhow, I know that Goldens are listed as one of the three top dogs for reported 'attacks' on people - according to a police survey done: but I'd assumed that was if they were'nt trained. Sonny goes to classes, is doing very well and mixes well with people and other dogs so this is a tad worrying!
He knows his place in the 'heirarchy' of the house - perhaps he gets fed up of being the 'under dog'.
First port of call is the vets on Monday and we'll persevere with him for as long as it takes. We love him very much and want to keep him in our family:(

Ruth

I was "Attacked" by a 18 week old Golden just before Christmas so yes, there are some nasty ones around. I sorted that one and I'm confident it won't go for me again but I can make no garantees about anyone else. Unfortunatly the girl has not been back to club since which is a shame because the person having trouble is more in need of help than owners of dogs without problems.

No dog should ever go for it's own people although if he is in pain then there mitigating circumstances. Get him checked out first. Six months is very young to start on dominance and even then a dog rarely bites its owners. normally there is too much respect for that to happen. Is there any other signs or is this right out of the blue? And if there is any other signes how long has it been going on?

Regards, John

Hi John,

The only signs I could say that there have been are minor incident when he was about three - four months old. I know when we first had him, not long after, my son tried to push him off the bed and Sonny snapped at him. We put that down to puppy overzealousness but I said at the time that if he bit a child he would have to be rehomed. That was then, this is now and we would be very reluctant to do that as Sonny is a lovley, obedient dog. Let's ope e's got noting nasty brewing:(

Ruth

Hope so too Sunny!!!! Don`t know what to say really, just would never ever tolerate a growl from any of my dogs, but would be to difficult for me to explain on here. The others are great at explaining the written word better so am sure you`ll get loads of advice soon. Sorry :)
Christine. Spain.

Hi John,

The only signs I could say that there have been are minor incident when he was about three - four months old. I know when we first had him, not long after, my son tried to push him off the bed and Sonny snapped at him. We put that down to puppy overzealousness but I said at the time that if he bit a child he would have to be rehomed. That was then, this is now and we would be very reluctant to do that as Sonny is a lovley, obedient dog. Let's hope he's got nothing nasty brewing:(

Ruth

As I said before, get him checked out by your vet. Tell him the reason so he has some idea what to look for and where to look. It may not be ears, could even be a brain tumour, although that might sound a bit drastic I have known it in one dog!

Quite frankly, from what you say about the earlier case I doubt there is a medical answer but check anyway. In the case of the dog with the tumour, I missed it and had the owner treating the effect rather than the cores. I've always regretted the fact that the poor dog suffered because I missed it, the behaviour signs were there for me to see!

If it is not medical then you have a decision to make. Are you going to risk going on? Rehoming is really not an option. Just imagine how you would feel if you rehomed him and something happened to his new owner! You might be able to improve matters by training but you cannot put your children at risk in the mean time.

Regards, John

Hi Dizzy.
Goldens have changed an awful lot in these last 10yrs or so. Being in the kennels, they are one of our most unpredictable breeds. They all appear to behave in a similar manner, one minute lovely, then in a flash they bite, I have known it many times. Just last week one dog that we boarded (without probs, although looked dodgy) attacked a small child for the second time, he was re-homed, I wouldn't have, I wouldn't pass on the problem as this dog had bitten adults too. It is becoming increasingly familiar. The worse one I knew was a dog I took into rescue, (when I did Lab rescue we sometimes took a Golden) he was just 8 months old, very well bred and had apparantly bitten a woman so severely she was in hospital for 3 days. I can confirm this as I know the man who owned him, he later had a Lab from me who died recently at 12yrs. The dog inflicted many stitches in her face, neck and stomach, what had she done to him? nothing, seconds before he was sitting at her side being stroked, then he turned! Anyhow, I gave him a chance mainly because of his age, it was 3 weeks before he showed his "true" colours, one day without warning, he turned on me. I don't need to tell you the next step we took.

It really does worry me, but there is a serious problem that needs to be addressed.
Dawn.

I could not agree more Dawn. I've known some real evil ones and the problem seems to be getting worse. A lovely breed going wrong!

John

Hi John, As you probably know,(I mention it enought:D) my Golden Sunny, was only 2 yr old when we had to her her pts due to a brain tumour:( She was a very well bred puppy from show lines, from a very respectable breeder - she had an iffy temperament on and off, I used to do obedience with her, but she suddenly went flat, and I did not see the point of continuing if she wasnt enjoying herself. She was a lovely dog most of the time, but became very timid in the house (scooby-do running on the spot - terrified of everything) but v. dominant out of the house with other dogs and people. She was unpredictable around strange kids, and being a Golden kids assumed they could just run up and pet her, so I had to be on my guard to warn strangers not to touch just in case, she never bit anyone, but would give sufficient warning with showing her teeth - no growling.My sunny was also a doddle as a pup to train, very obedient, people used to comment that she wasnt the normal sort of golden all bouncy and jumping up. I had taken her to the vet on numerous occasions, something was going on which I couldnt put my finger on :( they could find nothing wrong, but you just know your dog don't you? I knew something was amiss - she began sudden collapsing - and after tests it turned out to be a brain tumour:( I had spoken to Laurina in Golden Rescue, who told me that there were some very iffy temperaments around:( So it does seem to be occurring more and more in the breed sadly:( This is not to panic anyone re the Brain Tumour, I would say have the ears checked out first and speak to your trainer and enlist their help in helping you assess the situation with your Golden - HTH Julie:)

Laurina has been around Goldens for so many years, both working and show and knows what she's talking about. It's so sad and I do wonder where it came from. My own thoughts are that at sometime there was a very good looking Golden with an iffy temperament who, possibly because of very good handling was manageable in the show ring, got well used and the results are here now to show. Certainly quite a bit of Golden Eye troubles comes from the very light Goldens so that seems to come directly from the show ring fashions.

On a different breed, my old Beth was so much of a handful as a puppy that in less experienced hands was a rescue dog in the making! I had never before had a puppy who for the first 3 weeks never even acknowledged that I existed! And this was an 8 week old baby! She finished up as my all time favourite and loved everyone and everything but BOY, was she hard work to start with!

Best wishes, John

I'll have to get hold of Malcolm Willis' book on genetics one day, I understand the basics but would love to know in a biological sense how these genes can carry through, it's fascinating.

Lindsay

lyndsey. my friends hubby just bought malcoms book for her from a sale------she had no idea of its value!!

Coo, lucky friend!!! :)

LIndsay

helen rang me last week [malcoms wife] i told her about my friends find, she told me ones just been sold for £150

Hi John, I tend to agree with your theory, its so sad isnt it? Guess what shade my Sunny was - yep - pale - that is not of course meant to infer that all pale goldens mean trouble - it isn't - just an observation:) - If I ever decided to get another Golden , I would definitely contact Laurina first, she is a wealth of information on the breed and certainly knows her stuff:) and probably go for a dark one too;) Julie:)

Hi Julie,

Sonny is pale too! However, it's like the washing machine theory or car - meaning that if you have one bad experience with one, it's tends to cloud your judgement forever of that particular make.
It's like that in this situation and the important thing for us is to look at Sonny as a whole and not over react, which is an easy thing to do in a situation like this.
Today, he's been brilliant- no problems whatsoever - long may it last. But he's still going to the vets tomorrow.

TTFN
Ruth:)

Hi Ruth

Get his eyes checked out as well as sight problems can sometimes cause otherwise unexplained aggressiveness - hope your husband was not badly hurt.

Just out of curosity was it a warning snap and snarl that caught him, or an actual bite - not that either is acceptable but if your husband was holding on a bit tight without realising and Sonny couldn't easily move away it might explain it?

Christine

I absolutely agree Ruth:) and you must remember that the vet concluded that my Sunny's temperament changes were down to the Brain Tumour:( - I have a friend who had a Springer who had become v. agressive and she had him pts and was aghast when I got Decoy, she couldnt believe it after 'she'd warned me what springers were like' :D He is the most gentle loving springer you could ever wish to meet.
The vet should be able to put your mind at ease:) Def. get the ears/eyes checked:) All puppies are different and try it on at some stage in my opinion and I agree with not over reacting:) do let us all know how you get on at the vets, and what your trainer at class suggests:) Julie:)

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