Hi, I'm new to the forum and I have a question I hope experienced breeders can help me with. I'm scrolled through ten pages of questions and can't find it already asked.

I bred a litter about 13 years ago successfully. I have now bred from my medium large sized gundog bitch and as before have followed advice from the Book of the Bitch and some from my Vet, it is amazing how much I had forgotten from my previous experience. My bitch had 11 puppies one week ago, unfortunately the last one was stillborn, I think my bitch was so exhausted she did not expel the pup soon enough after the placenta detached from the Uterine wall and it could not be revived. The litter are doing well and my bitch is being a super Mum as I knew she would be. The vet came to my house to check my bitch and the litter the morning after the night the litter were delivered and they are all fine.

My question is to do with risk of the bitch laying or rolling on a puppy. I have slept by the whelping box for all 7 nights since they have been born and certainly for the first 4 of those nights responded to squeels or sounds of distress to help out a pup stuck somewhere underneath Mum but for the last 3 nights Mum has been happy to lay and just feed and be less restless and maybe that is part of the reason I haven't needed to do any night time rescuing. We have occasionally in the day needed to rescue a pup which sounds in distress somewhere under or behind Mum. The pups are all good sizes and weigh about a kg now.

I am very tired not surprisingly and would like to be in my bed at night now, so how soon is ok to leave the puppies unsupervised? Obviously though tired, the welfare of the puppies is paramount and if I need to stay with them longer I will. So is one week enough and can they now be left safely with no risk of being laid on or rolled on by Mum?

 

I'd leave it another week or two I'm afraid - have you got a partner or even a friend who wouldn't mind stopping over just for one night with them so you could sleep in your bed for a night?

I feel your pain, but really lack of sleep is par for the course when you have a litter. With my previous breed whereby litters of 11 were normal, I did stay down with them for around 4 weeks, just to make sure everyone was ok.
With my current breed, whereby litters are (thankfully) much smaller I stay down for at least 2 1/2 weeks, although I judge each litter on its own merit and so whilst I wouldn't stay down any less than that, I could well end up sleep deprived for longer.
I know for a fact if I went to bed after just one week, I wouldn't sleep anyway as I would be worrying about Mum and pups.

My litter was supervised 24/7 for the first 3 weeks.My daughter and I shared the night times-being a late teen she was quite happy to stay up until 3 or 4 am and then I swapped over.OH helped inbetween.As said,I wouldn't be able to rest if left alone and even though my very capable daughter would stay up,I still popped down stairs frequently.

I was advised to stay with them until about 3-4 weeks. I slept beside them until then and had someone supervise whilst I did the weekly shop, napped, or other things that needed doing. Usually it's not too hard to find a supervisor for some adorable puppies!

I stay with the litter for at least 3 weeks  but my OH has to work so what we do is that after dinner about 7pm I go to bed for a couple of hours till about 11.30 then when he goes up to bed I come down to stay with the pups. Works well and I get a few hours uninterupted sleep.
The I can snooze of and on during the night.
Aileen

not because of pup's, but due to very sick dogs on two sep occassions over the last seven months  I have slept on the kitchen floor beside my sick dog. (moving her was not an option), once for three months the other for two months and would do again when/if required. at times like that is v tiring, but as i say if my dog depends on me i wld do again. so really the answer to your post is. if you feel ok about leaving the pups fine, but dont not do it due to your tiredness, as, if an accident happens, and they do to the best...you would never forgive yourself. btw both my dogs are fine now, 

I watched my litter 24/7 for first 3-4 weeks too.  Took it in turns with other family members which helped so there was always someone awake to keep watch.  Only once mum started sleeping outside the box for a few hours did I even nap in the same room as pups.  I dont think people realise until you have a litter just how tiring it is.
I hope there is someone you can get to help you out.

I watched my litter 24/7 for first 3-4 weeks too.  Took it in turns with other family members which helped so there was always someone awake to keep watch.  Only once mum started sleeping outside the box for a few hours did I even nap in the same room as pups.  I dont think people realise until you have a litter just how tiring it is.
I hope there is someone you can get to help you out.

Thanks, we'll definitely do at least another week then and may well do more. I remember we did two weeks with my Irish Setter but as the Book of the Bitch doesn't mention anything about how long you should not leave the litter for, I'm not sure where we got that time limit from! I don't have a partner and my dd has aspergers and is at college so I don't want her to be tired and ruin her college course but she has offered to do the next two nights as she doesn't have college the next day so I will get two nights off. Other than her I have no help. It is all worth it though, the puppies are lovely.

Our litters are supervised 24/7 for 4 weeks or until puppies are weaned.

I don't have any help either - well I do in that my husband and the older children always offer to do the night shift for me, but the truth is, I don't trust anyone like I trust myself to keep a watchful eye. I am sure if my husband stayed with the pups he would be in a deep sleep on the sofa before I knew it ;-)

I live alone, so can't share shifts with a family member.

> It is all worth it though, the puppies are lovely.

But here is where you hit the nail on the head!  :-)  :-)

Good Luck with your brood.

Congrats on the litter, glad they're all doing so well.

We've only had two litters (same breed as you :)), and both times I've stayed downstairs in the puppy room on a mattress for around 4 weeks. I saved a trapped puppy several times, not just during the night, but I find it can be a bit tricky even as they get bigger because there's less room in the whelping box for mum and all the pups to get into the right position. I found that mum would go in, circle a couple of times (I'm sure it was to get all pups on their feet and into a "group", before she would lie down to feed them.

I found a fab compromise with my second litter which I will definitely use again. I purchased a cheap two way baby monitor from Ebay which was left on top of the radiator in the puppy room, and the receiver in my bedroom. It worked great, as I could turn the volume down, and if there was a lot of squawking going on, I could see the monitor lighting up! I'm not a heavy sleeper anyway but this really put my mind at rest. With a baby monitor there's not much chance of missing a distressed puppy crying! Plus, I sold it on Ebay for the same price! (don't know when my next litter will be).

Good luck with whatever you decide, apart from having human babies it must be the next most tiring thing to do!!

I slept in the lounge for the whole ten weeks, not worth risking it imo but it's a personal choice.

My husband watches over the pups in the evening while I go to bed. I then take over the night shift so do get at least 4-5 hours solid sleep. Can your daughter watch over the pups each evening for you. I have just gone back to my bed at 5 weeks as the Mum was still feeding them until then. However, I stay down with her to keep her company too.

I think part of the problem with posts such as the op's is that once a few people have announced they stay with the litter 24/7 for up to 8 weeks then no one dares post that they don't, even though i would hazzard that the majority of people can't/ don't do so :-)

you're right... I am on my own when I have pups so try and not leave them at all for the first week and then see how they are - with my big breed it's critical not to leave them as mum is relatively big compared to the pups and if she were to land on one with her elbow they'd be dead... she leaves it to me to 'rescue' stuck ones and ones under her... so for the first week I don't leave her other than to make tea etc... after that I leave her more, her huge box has pig rails which helps and lots of soft bedding... once they're weaning she'll leave them and I'm happy to leave them too - she's very good at leaping in and out although my heart is in my mouth... with my small breed there is less danger, the mum is very hairy and the pups are relatively large compared to her size and they don't have the same issues as the big breed.  Although I briefly left one litter of 2 for a couple of hours at about 2 weeks to get some shopping and on my return one wasn't right, off to the vets and she had a chest infection.. not sure if I'd have noticed it sooner if I'd been home, but felt very guilty.  I have them in my bedroom for the first 3 weeks or so and then they're in the kitchen/conservatory and I leave them there overnight... keeping an ear open for them and letting mum be nearby.  No way could I stay with a litter 24/7 for 8 weeks....

im lucky my hubby will help out when he can but most of it is done by me ,i stay with pups till their about 4/5 weeks old and if im honist i stay with them longer lol theres always something i find to worry about lol.

We've also got the puppies on cctv so once weaned (and we are back in our own beds) all we have to do is flick the TV over and the puppies can be monitored. I quite often have the cctv on rather than the normal telly programmes, it's much more entertaining.

Yes, we have a puppycam when we have pups, my friends in America are glued to it lol, so even if I dozed off they would probably phone me haha! Luckily (?) Ellie has only had tiny litters so much harder to get one stuck, but even so I'd had to pull them out from underneath her a few times. Luckily I sleep very lightly, with my head near the whelping box any noise will wake me, and even when in my bed I wake several times on an average night.

Well, my girls  puppies are born i my bedroom right beside my bed.
I can reach them just by stretching arm a little.
For me that works fine. The puppies moves to the puppyroom when they are 4 weeks old and can be left alone for a little while.
Of course my sleep is not the best because even the slightest noise from the mother and her puppies,  wakes me up, looking to se that they are alright.
But 4 weeks in the bedroom with mother, puppies, television, phone  computer and of course lots of chocolate is heaven!!!
  (Followed by me being on a diet to loose weight after these weeks LOLhihi but it is worth it!!)

I sleep with them until they are 4 weeks or so. By then they are great big pups who don't need 24 hour supervision Just go to bed late and get up early and they are fine with mum nearby.

I use a baby alarm, after two weeks sleeping in the room with my pups, I also have a web cam for the nights when I go up to bed again, it puts the pictures up on the tv.
good luck

Just thought I would say that I stayed down with the pups for 13 nights and then back pain drew me back to my bed and I've been in my bed at night for the last 3 nights. I do go to bed very late and set my alarm very early but still get a few hours of zzz's. All is well and the pups are thriving.

Im not a breeder but would interested to know what happens to litters that are born in  kennels? The pups ive bought in the past( apart from my daughters dog) have all been raised in the family home which is what i prefer but just interested to know how breeders keep an eye on kennel litters especially if they have 2 litters at the same time

i wouldnt get a pup thats been born/raised in a out building/kennel every1 i know have their dogs whelp/raise thier babies in their homes, with large breeds spending alot of time outside in the daytime playing and being played with from 4/5weeks....2 litters at the same time means alot of hard work and still in the house but differents rooms :( something i would never do myself raising 1 litter and trying your best is bloody hard work.

> raising 1 litter and trying your best is bloody hard work.

:-)  :-)  :-)

Have you noticed that everyone that raises litters properly says this?  :-)

yes jean thats true :)

im very proud to say EVERY pup that has left my home have gone from being a very well rounded happy puppy to a happy healthy adult, my life goes on hold for 8plus weeks,everything i do is for the litter/mum making sure all are well and happy,with no or very little sleep, but wouldnt have it any other way! my name goes with the babies and i want people to see that making sure health tests and sound dogs produce sound pups :)

Kenzi, I've wondered the same thing. I've visited 2 establishments where I would never ever buy a pup, one was most definitely a puppy farm, lots of different breeds, loads of litters all in pens in barns - I ran a mile, trying not to cry. The other the lady had converted her garage and had 3 whelping pens and 2 litters, didn't like that set up either. I ended up travelling a long way for my bitch, worth every mile though. Trouble is you have no clue as to how they are kept on adverts, the garage lady said hers were bred in the home. I think not.

> had converted her garage and had 3 whelping pens and 2 litters, didn't like that set up either.

Of course if the garage was integral to the house, and the pups were penned there once mobile (few peopel visti a litter in teh first three weeks) that is quite different to whelping and rearing a litter entirely outdoors.

I would imagine that puppies actually born and raised in kennels so not having continuous supervision and interaction with the breeder as indoor living room/bedroom born litters do will have the expected mortality rate of around 30% as stated in the book of the bitch.  I am sad with just a 10% mortality rate (stillborn or unviable pups).

In larger breeding establishments, right up to commercial units, I think they open the doors of the whelping sheds in the morning to see what theyve got :-(
Then shut it right up again at night.
Survival of the fittest I suppose and they seem to accept the losses.

Hi
This is my first time having a litter with my pet toy breed and I’m doing everything by the book I’m sleeping in the room with her and pups and I’m actually loving it, but she keeps getting out of whelping box to get in bed with me, obviously I love this but I’m concerned that she shouldn’t be? She doesn’t take her eyes off of the box and keeps checking but I’m worried that she’ll eventually just stay with me and ignore her litter, they’re only a week old ? Some advice would be greatly appreciated xx

> She doesn’t take her eyes off of the box and keeps checking

As long as she reacts when the puppies need another feed, I'd not worry overly about this.   Some bitches do have a hard time switching from being a pet, to being a mum and it's not unusual for them to be more off the litter, than with them.   Just make sure the puppies have additional heat (we used a heat lamp, with a thermometer on the pig rail to check the heat in the bottom of the box) because initially they can't regulate their own temperature and without mum to snuggle up to when not feeding, could get chilled.

Why not move this to your own thread - this is an old one.

How old are the puppies? I usually find that the first 5-7 days the bitch wants to be in the box all the time with them, from 7 days onwards she sleeps on a dog bed I put just outside the box and goes in to feed and visit them, then retreats to watch them from her dog bed just outside again.

So long as the pups are warm and secure with no draught they will be fine.  I slept downstairs with my girl until she started taking a break from the pups at around 7-10 days.  Then I went back to my bed and she came with me.  She would then wake me whenever she wanted to go back to them.  She's bonded to you AND her pups.   If she's otherwise attentive then follow her lead.