Had a call today from a woman looking for a BMD male to mate her GSD female .... Oh dear will we ever educate these people ?
Needless to say she was told to think again and my wonderful OH tried to make her see why it was not such a great idea... I suspect she will do it anyway, no scoring done, no research into temp or health of the parents. I can just imagin the result....could well be an 8 stone fluffy looking cuddly dog with a strong guarding instinct if the mix comes out wrong.
Aileen

Sad isn't it, there are many money grabbing people out there who i'm sure who would end up obliging.. Like to ring their neck if I ever found out who they were.. They never think of the consequences of the mix they are putting together and many are just not a good combination.

its not just the combination its the variants you could get within in that if that makes sense and again never mind the health of either the parents or the pups.
When will people stop seeing their pets as money machines with pretty faces :(

There is an Irish Wolfhound x Collie litter currently advertised - they started at £450. They have now been reduced to £150. The mother is the collie (ouch).

She must have stood on a chair or wall, wonder if she had them naturally with such a size difference and the dam being the smaller breed, don't know what weight either breed would be at birth.

i met two girls with a 7mth cross breed, now i knew it was a bull breed so i asked and you guessed it bulldog x american bulldog, at first it was a bit shy then 10 mins later she tried to dominate my stafford bitch who is 2 next mth, read the signs and called mine away, and it came running after tilly which there was a scuffle and the bitch wouldn't let go, finally got her off my dog.
When i returned their dog back as they were to scared to help, its was there friends dog.

They also said that their mate was mating her with his stafford type.

Not a good cross breed with temperament in the first place plus more pups that will end up pts.

We now keep a wide berth if we see them last time i saw them the 2yr old boy
was not nice so another child will defiantly be in the papers of being attacked, no helping some people.

Nessa

Someone local is crossing... Newfoundland and Standard (giant) Poodle    And boasting in the adverts that they won't shed    Can't imagine how you'd look after the coat :(

I too despair when I hear people talking about making money out of their pets - When we got our first Bedlington pup, the N-D-Neighbour's first words were "She's lovely, how much did she cost, you'll make a fortune in pups"      all he could see was pound signs!

Newfypoos, this is getting totally out of hand, years ago you wouldn't be bragging about a mixed breed mating,you would have been to embarrassed to admit you had let it happen.

I have seen no end of mini dachshund[all coats] being cross bred and given stupid names, makes me see red.

> Had a call today from a woman looking for a BMD male to mate her GSD female .... Oh dear will we ever educate these people ?

Something about this particular cross makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand on end.... and I don't know why!  Perhaps to do with conformation and health? I am struggling to see how pups even from elbow and hipscored parents could come out of it without some kind of structural defect, particularly with the weight and bone of the Bernese added to the rear angulation of even a moderate type GSD. I have heard of "Bordernese" (Bern x BC), but something about the disparity of type between Bernese and GSDs worries me - not to mention the various health problems each breed has - maybe not common to both, but who knows?

i saw an add the other day for leondoodles, leonberger X Poodle, and the poodle was the mother. Apperantly an accident but as they are only the 2nd litter in the uk of there type (as they say) they are asking for £700!

No wonder the bloke who invented the poodle cross wishes he'd never done it.

>i saw an add the other day for leondoodles, leonberger X Poodle, and the poodle was the mother

Jeez!  Looking at the width of pelvis, even in a Standard Poodle, as opposed to a Leonberger.  That is so not ethical.

Many years ago I remember hearing of an accidental mating between a JR and a Boxer.  The bitch was the Boxer, and the JR stood on a wall.  I admit this was a very long time ago, before the days of OODLES.

Locally some years back there was Rottie/dachsie pups, the owners thought it was physically impossible for them to mate so left them together when the Rottie bitch was in season, the pregnancy was very well advanced before they realised, after the pups reached about 8 weeks old they appearred on local news, the pups had a smooth bl/tan dachsie body and a rottie head, there were concerns as to what strain the huge head would put on the neck/spine, they had asked the vet how had this happened and he said she eithered lay down for him or he stood on something, they could have come home to a badly injured Romeo had she decided she didn't want to co operate after the tie.

Where there is a willie there is a way.

> Irish Wolfhound x Collie litter

Now that is damn stupid imo, not only the size difference but a Wolfie with a brain.

I can't understand how people think just because a cross has a Poodle in the mix it won't moult..Common sense has really gone out of the window..

I was looking at a certain site the other day which always seems to carry a lot of stud adverts. There was a dog advertised for stud that was a cross between 2 expensive breeds. His stud fee was double what other people were asking for their purebred studs of the breeds concerned! I wonder if people are stupid enough to pay it?

In these cases they are either thinking well I may not get many requests so best make as much as I can from those I do get or they are just plain greedy.

I have asked a friend who breeds wolfhounds what the pups normally weigh at birth to compare with normal collie birth weights but don't know any collie breeders personally to ask so hopefully a forum member will come forward with that info.

The tables in the back of the book of the bitch are pretty representative for puppy weights, litter sizes etc.

I was quite surprised how small Giant Schnauzer pups can be.

Thanks Barbara, will go and root out my copy.

Can't find my BOTB but my friend says her wolfhound pups are about 1lb each at birth, surely collies must be smaller than that at birth.

> Can't find my BOTB but my friend says her wolfhound pups are about 1lb each at birth, surely collies must be smaller than that at birth.

Not really, my litter were 9 - 13oz and they're not big collies as adults.

Just as an aside, collie x sighthounds do tend to make very good pets and of course have been used for a long time as working dogs - though not wolfhound crosses which I'd imagine would be too cumbersome for rabbiting :-)

BOTB says Border Collie 16oz

No weights for Wolfhound but Deerhound is 16-32 oz

Deerhound pups are titchy spindly little things when born though, I highly doubt Wolfhound pups are.

I think wolfhound x ANYTHING pretty much is a stupid idea, they do not cross 'well' at all, producing ungainly long backed narrow slab sided creatures with heavy limbs and big heads - BUT for some reason people DO like to think (particularly within the 'lurchers are trendy' set) they have a Wolfhound x. 99 x out of 100, they don't!

So collie and wolfhound pups weigh about the same, all these fancy crosses make no sense to me, plenty of Heinz 57 varieties in rescues without adding to them.

i saw an ad for german shep cross bichons my eyes nearly poped out my head i had to keep reading it :-O

Yes I saw that one too, it had been done quite deliberatly and they stated why. Unfortunatly I very much doubt that the outcome would be the same as the intention!!

Some years ago, the local village romeo beagle mated a doberman and everyone wondered how he had managed. interestingly the pups all took after the dobeman except one which was very much a beagle. I still see him from time to time and he's a sweet dog. There's another dog in our village who is a westie  x GSD, with the westie as the mum :-O
Pretty sure this wasn't deliberate and he's also a very nice dog, but he is a similar size and proportion to a Bassett but with wirey coat and a westie looking head. Another dog in our village who is a cesky had an accidental mating with a scottie. You would think the pups would have turned out reasonably well as the two breeds aren't disimilar but the one pup I saw looked like an overgrown Skye almost, and somehow not proportioned right, very odd and not attractive at all - so it just goes to show.

(This sounds as if owners round here are very casual but these are exceptions rather that the rule I'm glad to say ;-)  )

If you look on some of those sites there are a very disturbingly high number of puppies for sale of about 10-12 weeks old and the reason is given that it's because someone in the family is allergic to what they thought was a 'hypoallergenic' dog. Poor pups being sold on again so young and usually they're down as 'urgent' too and cheap so goodness knows where they'll end up :-(

i saw an add the other day for leondoodles, leonberger X Poodle, and the poodle was the mother. Apperantly an accident but as they are only the 2nd litter in the uk of there type (as they say) they are asking for £700!

I wonder if this is the same litter that is now plastered everywhere but with a price of £550?

The first purposefully bred Leondoodle litter started at £800 and are now down to £520 and they still have few to sell...
Hopefully this will stop them trying the wonderful cross again from the bitches next season!

and are asking for £50 exra for insurence and jabs plus more for the girls :-(

i saw the shepards x bichons aswell it was posted on a facebook group im on ,what a absolute idiot that person must be that cannot be a good cross , these days a mongrel is worth more than a well bred health tested pedigree HOW is that right ?? it infuriates me im sick of money grabbing scum breeding for a quick quid with no regards to their "pets" health , on a group the other day someone was saying their friend who owns a beagle was offered £1000 stud fee for his pug :o i was nearly sick !!

the beagle being the stud and the pug the bitch just incase that seemed confusing

the world as gone mad!!
its all about the stupid breed names, when i say to friends i dont do xbreeds thay call me a snob and im not!! i just want a dog to look and act like it should and be from healthy same breed perents :)

>its all about the stupid breed names,

You mean like my litter of Shih Tzu cross bully breed?

I only bred them so I could call them Bull *****

sorry white lilly, I just couldn't resist!  :-)

> the beagle being the stud and the pug the bitch just incase that seemed confusing

This is where it all gets dangerous and scary.  It's bad enough the puppy farmers churning out Pug crosses from Beagle and Jack Russels bitches, but then you get the pet owning idiots who don't even understand the rudiments and end up with this sort of thing, poor little bitch, can only hope she does not take.  I once had someone asking me to put them in touch wiht a Standard Poodle stud dog - ot use on his Cocker Spaniel!

I once had someone asking me to put them in touch wiht a Standard Poodle stud dog - ot use on his Cocker Spaniel!

aaarggh...cockerdoodle DON'T :(

Shall I cash in... My Tibby boy LURVES his Deerhound girlfriend...

Imagine.. a Tibetan Terrier personality... in a Deerhound sized package.. *snort* GIANT Tibetan Terriers.... oh my.

Fear not - she's fixed, if she weren't, well her breeder would HUNT me down and kill me and anyway, I'd need sectioning if I did that..

Does make you wonder if people have EVER considered the personality and breed traits of these x breeds though.

absolutly horrified, just had someone ring me re rescue. whilst chatting the lady told me that she heard of a 'gentleman' crossing a F/C with a GSD, to try and get good temprement into the GSD. this makes my blood boil, wonder what this 'designer' canine will be called, a flatsation?!

My pup plus 2 others from the litter were at Puppy preschool at the vets for the last few weeks, and a  Puggle pup of exactly the saem age attended as well.  The difference in behaviour was very marked.  The pug pups were, as always, outgoing, ahppy and socialable, tending to play together but interacting well with all the other pups.  The puggle joined in the playing without a moments hesitation and within a couple of minutes had to have a time out for over excitement and a tendency to snap, she was slightly taller and much longer legged than the pugs, although her owners had been assured she would not grow bigger than a pug being an "F2"!  Now obviously behaviour and temperament can be affected greatly by upbringing and training, but this pup's behaviour was completely unlike any pug pups I have ever met.  I have never had anything to do wiht Beagle pups so don't know if they commonly have a tendency to bully, but this pup was totally ignoring the humans (it's own and the others) and diving in for fast, rough play followed by a good fight!  The trainer and I were chatting to it's owner and tried to convince her that a little 1 to 1 training now might prevent any problems which we could both see coming in the future but the owner was absolutley sure that the pup would behave and look just like a pug, because the breeder had told her so - tried to say, in a freindly and non judgemental way, that from the puppy behaviour it did not seem to have inherited pug ways so she should read up on both breeds to see what may be expected from a Beagle too, but she was adamant that as an "F2" it would not inherit any Beagle traits.  This was a new one on me, but I can see the first time it is let off the lead in an open space it will pick up a scent or see another dog and take off at speed.

>This is where it all gets dangerous and scary.  It's bad enough the puppy farmers churning out Pug crosses from Beagle and Jack Russels bitches, but then you get the pet owning idiots who don't even understand the rudiments and end up with this sort of thing, poor little bitch, can only hope she does not take.  I once had someone asking me to put them in touch wiht a Standard Poodle stud dog - ot use on his Cocker Spaniel!

Yes - I have a grooming client with a LOT of dogs - mostly she sticks to purebreds, but she does do some doodles. At least they all have great temperament, only have 3 or 4 litters, are given a rest between litters, and are brought regularly for grooming, so better than the ones who breed constantly and don't give the bitches any care.  But the daughter (in her 20s I guess) has one of these, a JRxshih tzu, poor thing has had one litter at 2 years old, and last time she picked them up she asked my advice on whether to mate this little scrap to the Maltese or the (largish) miniature poodle for the next season. I couldn't find a polite way of saying 'neither, stop breeding mongrels' so had to settle for saying that out of the 2 I would advise the Maltese because of the size problems that could arise from using a larger stud dog. *sigh*

At least they all have great temperament

Not my experience. In all the years of owning dogs the only dog that has attacked and bitten one of my dogs was 7 days before Crufts when a Labradoodle took a piece out of my puppy's face. No warning, just went straight for the bite.

Ouch! This is why, although I don't approve of random crosses, at least this lady is taking the trouble to get a good temperament, though I doubt she's doing all the various health checks. I obviously didn't mean that all the crossbreeds have good temperament - if only! *sigh*

but then you get the pet owning idiots who don't even understand the rudiments

What a wonderful attitude towards pet owners. I'm surprised you allow any of your pups to go to pet homes.

I get very irritated at the extremely exaggerated criticisms made of crossbreeds on the forum. I meet a lot of Labradoodles as they are very popular where I live. The ones I meet have great temperaments - sociable, trainable and v bouncy for the first few years - much like the labs and poodles I've met too.

The puggles I've met have been very sociable - but then so are the beagles and pugs I meet too. Bigger stronger puppies can often be a bit bullying when playing with smaller weaker pups - that's why good puppy classes monitor and police play carefully as yours did.

Lots of crosses out there seem like a bad idea, but that doesn't mean every cross is a problem. Most Labradoodle owners would be happy with either a Poodle or Labrador temperament.

My greyhound's 'boyfriend' is a Chinese Crested male. Imagine! LOL

> The puggles I've met have been very sociable - but then so are the beagles and pugs I meet too. Bigger stronger puppies can often be a bit bullying when playing with smaller weaker pups - that's why good puppy classes monitor and police play carefully as yours did.

I never mentioned "Bigger stronger pups" the puggle pup I was writing about was a shade taller than my male pups of the same age, considerably taller than the female pug, but equal in weight to the girl, substantially lighter than the boys.  It was not a size thing but attitude, this pup's behaviour was very different from usual pug puppy playfulness.

To repeat, every "Jug"I have met has been borderline aggressive to both humans and canines, I know no aggressive pugs, and while quite a few of the JRs I know can be a bit shapr I have not few really aggressive ones over the years.

In fairness, all the Labradoodles I have met have been pleasant - both pups and adults, but generally quite hard to train, and a lot with disappointed owners when the guaranteed "non shedding" turns out to be a lie - so many families buy this cross as they are told it will not need clipping/professional grooming.  Almsot everyone has been a lot bigger than you would expect from either parent, as have all of the "Goldendoodles" I have met.

What a wonderful attitude towards pet owners. I'm surprised you allow any of your pups to go to pet homes.

Gwen will no doubt do as all GOOD breeders do and make sure to NOT pick idiots as pet owners. The idiots we turn away. That's what she meant, not that all pet owners are idiots.

The advert for the leonberger x poodle pups that I've seen has been reduced in price again to £350

LOL  now that mix of breeds always makes me laugh :)

It was not a size thing but attitude, this pup's behaviour was very different from usual pug puppy playfulness.

That is interesting Gwen because it is not Beagle behaviour either, Beagles being pack animals are usually soft, laid back and very well adjusted to live and play with other dogs. One wonders as it was described as an F2 if it was a pug x beagle x pug x JR now that might well produce a very mixed up mongrel

> What a wonderful attitude towards pet owners. I'm surprised you allow any of your pups to go to pet homes

> Lots of crosses out there seem like a bad idea, but that doesn't mean every cross is a problem.

to clarify Toon, all of the posters on the forum have pet dogs, though several also engage in hobbies with them. (I'll agree that was not a well written comment about pet owners though)

most posters on the forum have had cross breed dogs over the years, but they tend to have been rescues. unfortunately most of us get very angry about this abuse of dogs, especially as it could be stopped if people did engage their brains a little and did not get taken in by the rubbish spouted about the benefits of such crosses.

buying a puppy, breeding a litter and really anything to do with your dogs should be done with depth of thought and real consideration.

The point I was trying to make was that anyone reading this forum would be given the impression that all crossbreeding results in disastrous temperaments and unhappy owners. Meeting and walking with lots of crosses regularly, I'd say that isn't the case. The owners of the many Labradoodles and cockapoos out there seem happy with what they've ended up with.

> The owners of the many Labradoodles and cockapoos out there seem happy with what they've ended up with.

except the many, many of them in rescue.

> The point I was trying to make was that anyone reading this forum would be given the impression that all crossbreeding results in disastrous temperaments and unhappy owners

and if it puts people off doing it its or buying 'designer' crosses it is probably not a bad thing. the mojority of cross dogs are great, but I don't believe that breeding should be done without a view to improving a breed, maintaining a breed or to create a dog for a purpose (e.g. working or establishing a new breed). All of these circumstance, in my view, should come with the caveats of health testing and great temprements