Hi All,

I feel like a stuck record here but it's causing me so much stress at the minute. Nando's recall was coming on fairly well in my opinion. I invested in a long line and a whistle. For two weeks straight, every time he got a treat or a toy I gave two short blasts on the whistle, until eventually I could blow the whistle and he'd come to me from the garden or elsewhere in the house, albeit in his own time. However, after a while he began to come to me about the house with a lot more urgency about it and was even enthusiastic about doing so!

For the next two weeks or so after that, I took him out into an empty field with the long line (33ft!!) and (at first) only gave him a short section of the lead, two short blasts and treating again and again. Eventually, 9/10 he will come to me with some encouragement. We're at the stage where he will come back when I whistle *IF* I have caught his eye before hand. When he comes, I either A.) Play a rag game with him, which is his favourite,  B.) Give him a treat or C.) Make a huge big fuss of him.

He is just NOT enthusiastic about coming back to me though, no matter how I try to motivate him. The only way I can get him to come back to me with enthusiasm is if I ask for a down-stay first, and then do the *beep beep* on the whistle from a distance. He stays transfixed on me but I doubt that this would happen around another dog, and in a realistic situation, he's not be in a down-stay for me to expect a recall anyway! I haven't ever put him on the lead after whistling him back. Every time the training session is coming to an end, I gradually shorten the lead and then treat before putting his other lead on and playing a game or two with him before the walk home. I am just so nervous about him being off the lead at all, and I just feel like I'm getting nowhere fast. He is just not enthused by ANYTHING when we're out and about.

I really want to move onto the next step- recalling around other dogs on the long line, but I know this is too much of an ask from him at the minute and I fear I'm just not motivating him. Even Tuna is ignored by him!

Here is a video of his down-stay recall http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIA0Ro0ukaE so you can see how enthusiastic he is about that!

Have you tried running away from him, and in particular hiding in bushes, behind trees etc? Usually works wonders! I.e. the dog needs to learn YOU don't keep your eyes on him and just wait around, HE has to keep tracks of you as otherwise you may vanish. Sounds like he has learnt that you just stand still and wait so he can come back when he's good and ready. When I walk my dogs I often turn direction unexpectedly and I never call them when doing so, takes no time at all for them to realise they best keep tracks of me! Once you have that you can work more on formal recalls.

Here is a link from someone who I think is really good - hopefully it will help you:

http://drsophiayin.com/blog/entry/become-more-exciting-than-a-squirrel-teaching-a-reliable-come-when-called

I know how painful it must be not to have a great recall.

The other thing I would say in terms of rules (sorry if I am teaching my grandmother to suck eggs):

1.  Only issue a command if you are either 90% sure he will come or you can make him come

2.  Only give a command once

3.  Don't fade the treats/toy until he is 100% reliable - and then only reduce it to one out of three times (I must say I always give my dog a treat when she checks in with me). 

4.  Have a very special recall toy or high value treats & only use them for recall

5.  Don't move on too fast!

If I hide/turn away, he will run back in my general direction but not as a proper recall. I hide behind bushes or run the opposite direction and he *will* follow but it's by no means a recall and he couldn't give a toss if there is another dog around!

I'd go back to basics, since you say:

> every time he got a treat or a toy I gave two short blasts on the whistle,

This is in the wrong order:  You've been blowing the whistle after the reward, not before.  Sequence should be:  Blow whistle (or call); get behaviour (reeling in long line, smoochy kisses and prompts, luring); reward when dog reaches you.

It's not gonna work if you've blown the whistle after having given the reward, out of context of a recall....!

>This is in the wrong order:  You've been blowing the whistle after the reward, not before.

When beginning training you blow the whistle (or click the clicker) at the same time as giving the reward, so that the dog learns that the whistle means "here is your bestest treat". You can also blow the whistle when the dog is already coming to you, but it's no good blowing the whistle before the dog the dog is coming until it knows what it means.

I know how you feel.  I have got a lovely little dog who does what she is told all the time except when we start to get near the car!! Perfect recall but I end up running round the car after her like a benny hill scetch!!Argh! Infuriating!!  So now, we put the leash on before she gets too close and I just tell her the command to get in and it happens without stress.  I've tried hiding and leaving her behind but she doesn't care.  She doesn't want to go in the car anyway!!
Hope you get it sorted soon!!

>When beginning training you blow the whistle (or click the clicker) at the same time as giving the reward, so that the dog learns that the whistle means "here is your bestest treat". You can also blow the whistle when the dog is already coming to you, but it's no good blowing the whistle before the dog the dog is coming until it knows what it means.

JG I'm an APDT dog trainer &, hate to say it, but I disagree.  You need to associate the cue with the behaviour following it, and then to reward that behaviour.  The correct order is cue>behaviour>reward.  Just as with sit>dog sits>reward.  You don't train sit by saying the word 'sit' and rewarding the dog - whatever it is doing!  You need the correct behaviour to be there from the get-go, in order for you to be rewarding the right thing. 

How you get the behaviour differs - it can be through luring the dog, through running away and getting the dog to chase you, then spinning around and rewarding when it catches you, it can be through smooching and making encouraging 'pup pup' noises - but you do need the behaviour first, before the reward.  It's the cue which you can always add later (the whistle or call), once you've got a good response and reward going.

If you blow the whistle and give the reward at the same time, what are you teaching the dog to DO?  It's not doing anything.  It's just hearing a noise and getting a treat.  Sure, that might make the dog want to come, through classical conditioning (as with Pavlov's dogs), but it would be far better to use operant conditioning because then you're actually getting repetitions of the right behaviour, from the beginning, and rewarding that - in turn, making that more likely to happen in future.

>You don't train sit by saying the word 'sit' and rewarding the dog - whatever it is doing!

I find it's best to help the dog learn the cue word/command by saying it at the time the dog's performing the action, and then rewarding. So you say "Sit" when you can see that the dog is in the action of sitting naturally, and then reward. You say "Come here" when the dog is coming to you of its own accord, and reward. You say "Go wee-wees" (or whatever) when the dog is in the process of having a wee, and reward. This way the dog learns what each command actually means; once it knows that you can start giving the command before the action, and expect a response.

>If you blow the whistle and give the reward at the same time, what are you teaching the dog to DO?

You're teaching the dog that when it hears the whistle, it can take a reward from you. For that it knows that it needs to be within reeach of your hand - so it comes to you. You start by blowing a whistle when you put the pup's dinner down for it; within a day or two the pup has learned to come running for its dinner when it hears the blown whistle, and it gets its dinner - it's learned to come running because it's previously learned the outcome of the whistle.

>>I'd go back to basics, since you say:

    >>> every time he got a treat or a toy I gave two short blasts on the whistle,

>>This is in the wrong order:  You've been blowing the whistle after the reward, not before.  Sequence should be:  Blow whistle (or call); get >>behaviour (reeling in long line, smoochy kisses and prompts, luring); reward when dog reaches you.

>>It's not gonna work if you've blown the whistle after having given the reward, out of context of a recall....!

I don't think I've been too clear. Nando would be in close proximity to me, I'd give two short blasts and then give him the treat. He'd either be right next to me, or close enough that he'd have to get that bit closer in order to get the treat.

Perhaps you would benefit on going on a specialist recall course?

Ultimate Recall: 4 Day Course with John Rogerson

* Training a reliable, automatic, non-negotiable, reality recall
* Building block and foundation training of the recall
* Relationship/influence building in recall training
* The chasing/emergency recall
* Sit and/or down on recall
* Freeze/stop on recall/running wait
* Distance/direction control
* Calling dogs off of distractions
* Out of sight recall (owner hidden)
* Obedience/competition recall (dog is called from a stationary position)
* Free running recall (dog is called while in motion)
* Type "A" recall (dog re-joins his owner in motion)

JOHN RESERVES THE RIGHT TO ADJUST COURSE CONTENT BASED ON THE ABILITIES OF DOGS AND HANDLERS ENROLLED ON THE COURSE.

Dates for Ultimate Recall Course:

At Caersws, Wales
7th-10th June, 2012; 4 days duration 9.30 am-4.00 pm
To register contact Gail Gwesyn-Pryce at gailconcenn@btinternet.com

At Andover, England
7th-10th August , 2012; 4 day duration 9.30 am-4.00 pm
To register contact Pauline Wise at pauline@wiseowl.wanadoo.co.uk

http://www.johnrogerson.com/2012coursesschedule.pdf

Chase Recall Masterclass (with Practical Demos) with Stella Bagshaw

Date: Friday 22nd June 2012 Venue: Chobham, Surrey Max number of participants: 22
Teaching a chase recall needs to be strategic, methodical and motivational - for both dog and owner.
With unique understanding and first-hand experience of successfully teaching remarkably effective
chase recalls, Stella Bagshaw will show you how to teach this important skill step-by-step, including:

What signals to use - when and how
Equipment, including line handling
Theory versus real life!
Motivation - what it really means to the dog
Handler commitment and motivation.
Prey - what the dog considers prey
Environment - where you walk your dog and why it matters
Practical demos included. Everyone should do this course! Donʼt miss it!
The cost is £145 per person, to include refreshments and a light lunch.

http://www.apdt.co.uk/documents/Masterclasses2012.pdf

Book

Stop! How to control predatory Chasing in Dogs
by David Ryan

DVD

REALLY RELIABLE RECALL
by Leslie Nelson

Website article:

http://www.dog-secrets.co.uk/how-do-i-stop-my-dog-chasing/

I really like the sound of a specialist recall course, however I think that one is aimed at teaching people to teach a recall rather than something I'd take Nando along with me to.

> JOHN RESERVES THE RIGHT TO ADJUST COURSE CONTENT BASED ON THE ABILITIES OF DOGS AND HANDLERS ENROLLED ON THE COURSE.

LOL, I'd love to go. Do you think he could work wonders on our BH's?

I haven't clicked on the full info, but it does say they reserve the right to change content depending on abilities of handlers and dogs enrolled, so it sounds like you take your dog too?

Ah yes! I didn't see that bit. Perhaps it's worth giving them a call. I can see Nando really enjoying something like that, too.

Hi josh sounds like we should both enrol ourselves. And of course our dogs given we have similar problems. Will pm you later after investigating further maybe an option. I would love to spend some time.  Training just her and me away from everything else

I really wanted to do the recall course so have emailed them form the website but sadly it's too expensive at £250. I know it's four days but with travelling as well it makes it quite costly. You take your dog or can go as a spectator for £180.

Where abouts in the country are you lorripop ? I am sure someone could put you in touch with a good trainer who would charge you a lot less than that.

I'm about an hour away from the venue which isn't too bad. I did think of a private trainer but fancied actually doing the four day course and meeting others.
My boy is ok when there are no distractions but once he has fixed on something or gets involved in playing or chasing then it's very hard to get him back until he's ready and I have walked quite away away.

Has anyone done this course in the past and would they recommend?

I wonder if there is any dog friendly accommodation near by? I don't think £250 sounds too bad for four days, depending on how much my travel would cost.

I have emailed them and they are looking in to dog friendly b and b nearby for me. When I find out -i will let you know.

£250 for four days does not sound too expensive but in one go it's a lot to shell out. If the days were spread out and paid for individually then I guess it wouldn't sound as much. I am still thinking on it and they do have a few places left.
My only concern was that it was in a village hall (I think) and all dogs are good at doing exactly what they're told when indoors, get them outside and it's a different story.
Dates are right over my wedding anniversary so husband a bit disappointed on that as we always do something or go away, but he knows We need to get good recall on the dogs  - this equals less stress!

Just wanted to give you a quick update- We took Nando to the beach today- his first time on the train and I can also count on one hand the number of times he's been to the beach- and I took the long line with me. He had a good run about and a play with some other dogs, and even came back a few times, once when playing with a pair of over-excitable retriever crosses. He was at the end of the lead, totally transfixed on a pair of new found lands, two peeps on the whistle and a bit of excited movement and he came running back in my direction. Not 100% perfect recall but I was ridiculously excited and feeling very proud of Nando.

Finally I feel like my work has paid off slightly!