Has anyone dealt with Baban kennels in west Glamorgan, Swansea, Wales?

I have reserved a Boston terrier puppy and paid a deposit. We are new puppy owners and are very nervous. 

The owner breeds several different breeds of dog and I have read you should be careful of this.

Please help, we have major first puppy anxiety.

A quick google suggests they breed Labs, Westies, Cockers, Boxers and obviously Bostons as well.

They claim they are licensed breeders.  This means that they are breeding enough litters each year to require a licence from their local council.  I fail to see how this is anything other than commercial breeding, better known as puppy farming.

Please contact the The Boston Terrier Club for advice on buying a puppy from a reputable breeder.

There isn't a single show result for any dogs bearing that affix.  this suggests their only interest in dogs is breeding puppies. 

I would say goodbye to my deposit and look for a well bred puppy from a breed specialist who cares about the breed.

The parents of the pups should be eye tested for hereditary cataract, and there may be other tests recommended.

Do you have the pups parents names so you can check with the Kennel Club health test finder to see if they have been tested (I seriously doubt it).

Please contact the breed club for advice.

I agree with the others.

I would not be getting a puppy from there. It could mean more heart ache in the long run.

I'm afraid I would run a mile. Responsible breeders do NOT breed several breeds of dogs. Most breeders have one, maybe two breeds, that they are heavily involved in showing and/or working. This kennels appear to be breeding a multitude of popular pet breeds, and when Googling, all I find is a few adverts, no show results, nothing showing they actually have an interest in dogs apart from making money. If you want to make a comparison, try Googling my kennel name (Goldmali, my username) together with my main breed Malinois. The first page that comes up mainly has breeder listings on various sites, such as here and my own website, but on the second page you will find show results, see my dogs have been shown at Crufts etc. If you keep going until the next page you will find mentions of health testing and breed clubs. You can do this with any breeder and you will pretty soon see if they are truly interested in their breeds or not. Anyone just breeding to sell is not the breeder to go to, good breeders devote their lives to their chosen breeds and what matters to them is maintaining and improving the breeds, litters are few and far between, and only available when the breeder wants a pup to keep back themselves. They are the breeders that will be there for you with help and advice not just after a few days, but for your pup's entire life.

>The owner breeds several different breeds of dog and I have read you should be careful of this.

You've read correctly; breeding more than one or perhaps two breeds is a very bad sign. I too would run a mile.

Hi, and well done for checking :)  A quick Google of their tel number suggests they have multiple breeds for sale at any one time.  The breeds are those most favoured by puppy farmers and as I can also find some listings for young male dogs I suspect they sell on their stud dogs or ex breeding stock. 

I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole - sorry if that sounds harsh but I can see a number of red flags:

The price is too high for some breeds and too low for others, they list 'rare' or 'unusual' colours when they have mismarks, they state that pups are wormed and frontlined (you shouldn't have to apply frontline to young puppies), they tell you there are champions in the pedigree (doesn't mean much and is a popular line with puppy farmers), and they also say they will be vaccinated (there is no need to vaccinate pups this early - and shouldn't need to be done with many of their breeds until the pup is at home with the new owners as the pups will be protected by maternal antibodies).  You would need to get a 2nd vaccination anyway and many vets will simply ask you to start again if the brand isn't compatible.  Finally they don't have dam or sire in any of their photographs and there is little or no mention of health tests.

Have you visited the kennels, met the parents, seen the pups?  There is a lot of good advice around to help you make the right choice the Kennel Club is pretty good and the major dog charities all have advice designed to ensure that you don't get caught out.  There are also a number of salutary stories on this forum about owners who've been duped, fallen for scans, or simply failed to do their research.  Please don't be one of them.  Can you still walk away?  Even if you have paid a non refundable deposit then you might still save yourself money and heartache.  Many vets will tell you that puppy farmed dogs will often come with significant health issues.

**Edited for terrible typos ! :)

I know you will be excited about a puppy, and you have already put money down - but really, seriously, the BEST thing you can do at this point (and possibly the hardest!) is walk away.

This is unquestionably a puppy farm - puppies bred and raised in a place like this are treated like livestock - livestock is NOT suitable to live in your home with your family for the next 12 years or so.

Have a look here http://www.thepuppyplan.com/ particularly at the section entitled 'breeders and early care givers' and ask yourselves, IS this breeder going to be doing all these things with my puppy.

If not (and I would say with the number of litters they are producing not only are they not doing this they physically CANNOT as there are just not enough hours in the day) then they are not going to produce a puppy you will want to spend 12 years or more with.

Unfortunately it is breeders like THIS who are causing the biggest problem in pedigree dogs  - also as you have had dealings with these people, you ought to report them to the Kennel Club as being puppy farmers (this will then stop them being able to register puppies with the KC). Quite why the KC's computer system cannot flag up that certain breeders/addresses are registering far too many puppies, I don't know, but it currently doesn't, so you DO need to call and tell them.

Thank you for all the comments, unfortunately you have confirmed suspicions!

We asked the breeder the following questions

See the responses after......

Hi

We just need to know a few things to put our minds at rest as we have some concerns, I hope you don't mind.
I asked the breeder the following questions, see the responses below.

1. How many different types of dog do you breed?

2. Are the puppies reared in your home or a kennel?

3. What is the name of the vet practice where the puppies are checked.

4. Are we able to see both the kennels and the house

5. Are you able to provide us with all pedigree, kc papers, warranty papers etc on the day we collect the puppy?

6. Are you happy for us to bring an Independent Assured Breeder Member with us.

7. Are you happy to give us a written warranty giving us an opportunity to have the puppy checked by an independent vet.

If you are not happy to disclose the above information, I understand but we would then prefer to cancel have the deposit returned. Which can be paid into the account below.

RESPONSE:

HI.
1. MANY BREEDS I AM LISCENSED BREEDER
2 BOTH
3.VETS  NAME WILL BE ON VACCINE CARD
4.YES
5.YES
6.YES
7.YES.
Dads kc al02573406 HUNKYHARRY
Mum kc ak03139103 ESTA BAILANDO
Regards,
Kim Hopkins

I dont know what recommended health tests are for bostons, but a look on the site says the sire is a carrier and dam a clear for hereditary cataracts (which means your pup wont be affected). So that is one positive, though the breeding of so many breeds would put me off straight away.

Can I ask, did you put a big deposit down? The fact that you are having concerns would be enough to make me look for a responsible breeder and go elsewhere.

Confused by your flags they are going from UK to Germany. :-)

I would always buy from a breeder via a breed club, or have a look on the Champdogs breeders list for Bostons very strict on here as to who can advertise.

If you are in the UK you can always take a day trip over to Swansea and see for yourself what kind of establishment this is, but do not ever leave anywhere without the KC registration papers in your hand along with seeing the health screens, tests for yourself. Remember people do deceive and some outright lie.

If you are in Germany, just don't chance it as already said get a pup via a breed club. Much safer. :-)

Hey, on a plus side, the answer of YES to question No 5 is impressive! The time the KC have taken to register my litters, and the time it's taken for them to correct the mistakes they've made with the registrations :-( has proved totally impossible for me to provide registration papers on day of collection!! So based on my personal experience, their assurance of being able to do so would set alarm bells ringing!

I'm taking it you haven't met the breeder or their dogs? If so, and a refund of deposit isn't seeming forthcoming, can't you make a trip to them - would put your mind at ease, or confirm your worries.

I do hope it all works out for you.

1. MANY BREEDS I AM LISCENSED BREEDER

The direct translation for that is a puppy farmer. Please walk away.

I am from the Uk no idea why it is showing a German flag lol.

We have paid £100 deposit which leaves £600 to pay on collection.

I am so confused!

Getting a puppy should be exciting not terrifying!

That's an AWFUL lot of money to pay for a puppy farm puppy... :( :(
To lose £100 would be a small price to pay rather than make a bad mistake.

Have you heard of the phrase "Don't buy a puppy without seeing it with its Mother"?  You really would be wise to contact the Breed Club and be advise from there to find a good breeder.

I went to the KC health test result finder ( as I suspect many others did) and was surprised to see that they had been tested.

I would not pursue this, even if you loose your deposit, something is not right.I walked away from my first pup after lots of abuse from the breeder and loosing £50 deposit which was a fair bit 14 years ago. Go to the Breed Club website and find yourself a breeder that way you will hopefully be happy with what advice you get and the circumstances in which your puppy is raised.

Another important thing is your realationship with the breeder, they should be someone who you trust who will give you advice and support throughout your dogs life, if someone is a "licensed breeder" churning out several breeds will they have the time to spend reassuring you and mentoring you?

Walk away now. You knew something was wrong as you came on here asking for advice, trust your instincts and good luck.

I am walking away. You are right a £100 is nothing compared to having a happy healthy pup. X

That's an AWFUL lot of money to pay for a puppy farm puppy... :-( :-(

It also seems too cheap. In my (albeit limited) experience this breed normally sells for over £1000.

I agree but the £300 difference is (perhaps) only the first year's insurance premium ........ and doesn't take into account the potential emotional distress ....... :(  Much better to pay the going rate from a specialist breeder who can give a new dog owner the back up and support that they might need. :)

Don't get me wrong WestCoast, I meant something too cheap is something to stay away from as there has to be a reason for the price.

We're singing from the same hymn sheet. ;) :)

I think you're making a wise decision - I admire your willingness to listen to the advice of the very knowlegeable people on this site.

I wish more people could be persuaded to do this when it comes to buying a puppy...

Well done you Housmouse! :) :)  Much better to make the right decision now than to try to blame the breeder when things go wrong later...... ;)
Buying a puppy really is a matter of buyer beware.  A bit like buying a second hand car, or anything else for that matter, without doing enough research. :)

Getting a puppy should be exciting not terrifying!

Exactly, and I'm so, so pleased you are looking elsewhere now.

It is a pleasure if you are directed to a good breeder, he/she will phone you and chat to you, get to know you not just by e-mail, and you will find a friend there. If local you will be able to visit and meet your breeder even prior to pups being born and tbh even if not local you should make that trip to meet.

Then you know what your getting, who your getting it from and once the pups are born you will feel like you really have a pup coming home soon. Myself and others always like people to visit pups from approx 4 weeks, it proceeds to a wonderful relationship and excitement of getting your pup.

And when you finally collect him/her you will feel confident and happy and know you have support and all the correct paperwork from health tested parents along with a lot of knowledge.

A good breeder is interested in you as they want their pups to have good homes. Anyone who just sells because you have the money should be avoided, you don't want a clinical sale and buy, you want a breeder who is giving you a 10-15yr family member and who will be there for you if needed come rain or shine.

I know you will find the right breeder and pup soon and you won't regret it. :-)

£100 is a small price to pay for peace of mind. If I had been the breeder I would have sent you pics of the house/kennels (not that I personally have kennels), put a vid on Youtube or FB of the mum, pups and their surroundings and told you that you would be very welcome to visit and put your mind at rest. 'Many breeds' is not a good response.

Housmouse, you are absolutely doing the right thing.  When you find a good breeder you will realise the enormity of the bullet that you just dodged.  It will be a difference experience altogether and you will have no doubts.

Someone told my MIL they went there to get a puppy and didn't buy as they didn't like the conditions.  I didn't get the full story but I'm pretty certain they are a PF. 

Google tells me they are a licenced kennels and a couple of pages which say they also breed livestock and animals and rabbits for the fur trade!

I've not been there myself but it's not the type of place I would buy a pup from.

Well done housemouse yoi have made the right decision I am sure. Stay I touch and share the excitment of getting your new health pup from and good breeder with us all. (Here is plenty to learn and share from lovely people on here. Good luck

Please stay strong and  walk away from this pup. £100 is a lot to lose, but the chances are if you bought this pup you would lose a LOT more over time :(

I'm afraid I would have asked them rather different questions - asides from the first one (interesting the answer is 'many' and not EXACTLY...).

If you asked that first question of a reputable breeder, they would tell you not just the breeds of dogs they have, but their names, why they got into that breed, how many dogs they had, how long they had had them, shown them, worked them etc.

There really is little chance that a reputable, excellent breeder would also be a licenced breeder. The number of litters they produce just rules it out, you cannot do a good job if you are breeding so many pups of different breeds every year!

I researched this breed for friends of mien back in 1997, and was able to get my friends in touch with a reputable breeder, and they had a lovely companion for over 13 years.

The breed club secretaries were very helpful.  A well bred puppy is worth waiting for and meeting the breeders dogs essential, and lovely to know all the relatives.  You should feel you are becoming part of an extended family.

reputable breeders won't take a deposit until they have met you and decided in person you are a suitable person to take on one of their puppies.
Its a red flag to me. When I was last puppy hunting two of the breeders i spoke to were very keen to take a deposit in the post and me only meet the dogs on collection day- and of course they wouldn't meet me till then either.  It seemed to me all they were interested in was money not where the puppy went.
not someone I wanted to buy off.
you are doing the right thing.

Take a tip from a wise old bird...

I find dogs bred from Swansea/Carmarthen breeders are often poorly socialised, very very difficult to groom and come with numerous health issues.

Please walk away, and lose your deposit.  It will save you a lifetime of vet bills, go to a reputable breeder, even if you have to wait months for a health tested, well socialised pup.  The long run will be so worth it.

that is a bit of a sweeping statement!! There are plenty of GOOD breeders in Wales too. It is very hard for us to be fighting this total prejudice  and tarring us all with the same brush. There are good and bad breeders in ALL parts of the UK just as there are puppy farmers. The main culprits, as far as retail outlets buying from these establishments, are after all based in England and without the shops and dealers they could not carry on with this dispicable trade. A lot of us are doing all we can to stop them and do not need you to condemn us all as being bad.

The flag changes if your posting on a mobile device.

The breeder has refunded my deposit.

Well done, they must have been worried you would take it further as one would expect to loose a deposit but never mind it is good you have your money back.

I was also wary about any breeders from Wales, but by speaking to the Breed Club secretary I was able to work out who was just breeding and who was breeding to show.

Good luck with your search.

> I am walking away

I would just like to add another ~Well done~ and I don't doubt for a minute that you've absolutely made the right decision.

Finding your Puppy being just the first exciting steps to a lifetime of fullfillment that companion can bring you, and as you say it should be a pleasure not a worry!!
    Brainless made a great point too, if you go to a reputable ethical breed club breeder you are not just taking a puppy but entering into a new family.... and you can't really put a price on that support, friendship, knowledge and advice your breeder and your pup's sibling's owners can give you!

Good Luck in your search, and keep us posted won't you!
Best wishes :-)

> they would tell you not just the breeds of dogs they have, but their names, why they got into that breed, how many dogs they had, how long they had had them, shown them, worked them etc.
>
>

Smiled when I read that, and recognised myself as I realised how much we love to boast!  :-)  :-)  :-) 

I reckon if I'm off the phone in much under an hour then its quite possible the breeder is not the one for me - obviously excepting when I've called at the wrong time and they are busy or something.

I reckon if I'm off the phone in much under an hour then its quite possible the breeder is not the one for me

As a breeder who HATES talking on the phone, that statement would worry me a lot! But email me and see me in person, no problem.

You can tell much more on the phone than by email, tone of voice, the way somebody speaks about previous dogs, just by chatting you get a better idea if the prospective puppy owner and the breeder are on the same page.
If the breeder is at the other end of the country, you might not want to make the journey if you had not spoken to them previously at least a couple of times.

You can tell much more on the phone than by email, tone of voice, the way somebody speaks about previous dogs, just by chatting you get a better idea if the prospective puppy owner and the breeder are on the same page.

Not with me -I even forget the English words on the phone, I seldom do when speaking face to face.

You can tell much more on the phone than by email, tone of voice, the way somebody speaks about previous dogs, just by chatting you get a better idea if the prospective puppy owner and the breeder are on the same page.

Not with me -I even forget the English words on the phone, I seldom do when speaking face to face.
Quote selected text

I hate phones, i can't concentrate, have trouble listening and sort of get a brain fog for a few minutes and then realise i didnt get a thing that was said, i much prefer face to face lol

Sorry, I should say, anyone who doesn't 'do' phones but makes it clear I'd be welcome round for a cuppa and a good natter scores the same with me as one who will witter over the phone for hours.

Its the people who are really short and hurry me along and don't appear to want to talk about their dogs that put the wind up me and I am sure NONE of you would be like that at all!

Its the people who are really short and hurry me along and don't appear to want to talk about their dogs that put the wind up me and I am sure NONE of you would be like that at all!

:) I always try my best and I seem to be getting lots of calls even when I don't have pups, in particular general queries about the breed (could be because I am a breed note writer and have my number listed, could be because I am one of very few AB for the breed) and I will always try to help, no matter how uncomfortable I feel. But I find it somewhat easier to answer questions than to fire them off! So I much prefer being able to do that in other ways.

I agree face to face over a cup of tea is better, but if I was interested in a litter that was at the other end of the country and the breeder didn't want to talk, or didn't ask lots of questions over the phone, I would not make the trip.  So would never get to meet them face to face.

EXACTLY:......... " but if I was interested in a litter that was at the other end of the country and the breeder didn't want to talk, or didn't ask lots of questions over the phone, I would not make the trip.  So would never get to meet them face to face"

I want to know that you are a little interested in me and give a dam where your puppies are going, email or phone or face to face!

This is a living creature you are handing over to someone, not an object!

I have just been through this complete conversation and i am absolutely furious. Ask yourself who gives you the right to judge something you have completely NO IDEA over?? I agree that you should be careful when purchasing a new puppy but the farm BABAN KENNELS is the ONLY farm in which ALL THE DOGS get walked TWICE daily without fail. In rain,snow or storm!! I should know because im the one that does so. The well know LICENCE breeder herself pays staff everyday so that all dogs get full attention, walked, fed and watered. Also ALL dogs get groomed!!! We have loads of land and all the dogs run free without having to be put on a lead, there all so well solicited they get on fantastic just like a big family! All our dogs have a name and there own unique personality. Dogs are all fed on high quality food such as pedigree and eukanuba, we have fussy dogs that will only enjoy meat with their meals and others that rather pasta or tripe!! Does that sound like people who dosent care about the welfare of their dogs?? I dont think so. All pups are KC reg, wormed from 2weeks old, have a FULL vet check and receive their first vaccine before going to there new home purely for the puppy's welfare. So for the ones who said "puppies shouldn't be vaccinated that early" clearly need their head testing. ASK ANY VET!!! The kennels are cleaned twice daily without fail, every dog has a clean cossy bed to go into after their walks at night, people are free to call up anytime, there is NOTHING to hid. isn't it better to buy a healthy puppy from an experienced, caring dog lover/breeder??? Than it would be to buy from someone who knows nothing about dogs? from people that breed for a hobby to make some extra cash for themselves?? Mum of every pup can be seen any time, there all overly friendly and very healthy and happy, reason being we do NOT post photos on the internet of mum is to PROTECT our dogs!! Would u post photos of your children online for strangers to view??? NO? Well our dogs are our babies!!  Please stop with your nasty words and comments. You cant criticize something your so clueless on!