What is with the trend for flexi leads at dogs shows?   In the benching aisles of all places?  Particularly noticeable at Crufts were Basenjis, beagles and Elkhounds wafting around at the end of the full extent of a flexi lead like a person waves a metal detector from side to side.

And than you NOT to the person on the other end of one of these (basenji) who watched their dog cock it's leg and pee ALL over one of my crates :( while I was in the ring.  My friend on the opposite benching keeping an eye on my stuff requested said person mop it up and just got a filthy look in return. 

Flexi lead or not just please do not let your dog cock it's leg on people's belongings!!!

I saw someone stand in the middle of the main entrance with their basset and allow him to cock his leg up a visitors signpost and empty himself! I was so disgusted! It was even on carpet! I dread to think what their house is like filthy person.

I feel very sorry that this happened to your crate. Revolting!

I also hate it when people allow their dogs to urinate up peoples cars/wheels at shows..
Mine has been done a good few times at shows - so much so I now carry extra water to wash
the car off otherwise when I get home I get the neighbourhood cats spraying on it as well.

How would they like it if your dog urinated all over their belongings??
Probably not so why allow your dog to urinate on someone else's belongings?

I'm not sure if these charmers are on loose flexi leads.

We made the mistake of camping on the edge of an exercise area at an agility show once and I watched a lady allow her dog to cock its leg up my water container as she hadn't realised I was right there, she was given some disinfectant and a cloth!!!

I hate flexi leads myself and would never use them. It's hard to believe that people just stand there and ignore it while their dog pees on your things--I can recall being mortified when my puppy cocked his leg on someone's soft crate and couldn't do enough to clean up after him. I will say though that I draw the line at car wheels--I've seen plenty of dogs do this to my car and while I try hard to ensure my boys don't do this I'd be lying if I said they didn't. Going to Boston was an eye opener--fabulous car park for people and keeping dogs clean, but barely an upright object in sight for dogs that need to pee against something--not great planning there guys!...the few street lighting posts were absolutely awash by the end of the day :-(

I have posted this on breed Multiply group, as that is silly,a nd gives a terrible impression.

I broke down 20 miles from NEC so can't comment, it's not something I have noticed in our breed at shows, and needs nipping in the bud.

Flexi's are very useful for giving dogs a bit of freedom when not in a safe off lead area or for dogs with iffy recall, but shows, pavements are not the place.

I feel quite strongly that they should be banned from beside roads.

I use a flexi to walk my dog but keep it short till we get to the field. I would never use it in a show where you need a short lead to control your dog around others, but at open shows i have used it to take her on the field to let her have a bit of exercise wile remaning safe. I was at crufts but not with my dog this year. i didn't notice any Elkhounds on a flxi lead. I allways wonder why owners of dogs dont train them to pee outside like we do bitches. ? I have a male chi that is trained only to go outside

Re. piddling on things - I have only ever seen this 'allowing' dogs to pee on whatever they fancy in the show dog world.  One person whose dog by her own admission 'pees on everything' even cocked his leg the back of her trousers! and she was equally as unconcerned as when he had peed on the judges table! Do you just become immune to it???

On the subject of excretion! the amount of dog crap in the tunnel on the way into the NEC was hideous.  Imagine beginning your show day by treading in a big pile of that on your way in!  I felt quite ashamed to think that the poor NEC staff would have to clean up after them - it puts us all in a bad light. 

Re. flexi leads.  I was amazed when I first used one - fine for your dog to walk 10yds ahead of you on the pavement, but NOTHING to stop the dog doing a 10yd arc into the road.   I'm an experienced dog walker BUT for some reason didn't expect this to be able to happen.  My friend said that you get used to using them, but for me it was way too scary to risk again, so agree with you 100% Brainless.

>I have only ever seen this 'allowing' dogs to pee on whatever they fancy in the show dog world.

You'd be amazed at the number of owners who allow their dogs to cock their legs in the vet's reception area or in the consult room! They seem to think it's okay and then seem surprised to be handed a cloth.

> Re. piddling on things - I have only ever seen this 'allowing' dogs to pee on whatever they fancy in the show dog world

And it is the way the person at the end of lead nonchalantly stares up into space as they do it!  One breed is particularly bad for it.  A well recognised man with his dog whistling into space at the dog cocked his leg on someone's jacket by the benching at LKA.  Or the female owner (same offending breed) crates next to mine at SKC in the tented crate area ignoring the dog peeing on my crate, that was until I "diluted" the stream of urine with the water out of our dog bowl and just accidentally splashed her dog :).

Oh and the woman walking her beagles on flexi leads in the SKC camping area, letting them poop at the step of someone's caravan, left it and kept on walking.  Same person next morning with said beagles wandering on each side of other dogs / people and getting wrapped like a Maypole around them.  And in return YOU get a filthy look for not getting out of the way!

>I feel quite strongly that they should be banned from beside roads.<

Have to agree... I know of someone whos dog died a few years ago on one of these leads the dog ran into the road and was killed.

I use one where necessary in fields, but would never walking near a road. I also would never use one in crowded places as it is impossible to shorten the lead (at least on mine) beyond the 'thicker' bit of the lead which doesn't wind up (if you see what I mean :) ) At least with my ordinary soft fabric lead I can wrap it around my hand to get good control.

Whatever peoples views on flexileads, they are nothing to do with allowing your dog to pee where they shouldn't. Owners should have control of their dogs !

OK guys we all agree it is not acceptable so let's do something about it :-) Camera phones are a fabulous tool and I would suggest nobody walks their dogs without a mobile on them anyway - even if it switched off. Click and shame I say!! :-)

> Camera phones are a fabulous tool and I would suggest nobody walks their dogs without a mobile on them anyway

Some of us don't have camera phones :) :) :)

i have a camara and a phone. but not both in one lol

I know, but LOTS of us do! :-)

Jeff.

>> I feel quite strongly that they should be banned from beside roads.<
> Have to agree... I know of someone whos dog died a few years ago on one of these leads the dog ran into the road and was killed.

agree. very dangerous and anti social .

I am also deeply unimpressed by number of owners who take over entire pavement so it is damn near imposible to get my dog past on a short lead without their little yappy darling bouncing up my dog with its teeth snapping at her

> i have a camara and a phone. but not both in one lol

Me too :)

when we go to agility i hate it when we are camping and they let their dogs pee up windbreaks and water containers etc, my friend watched a lady let her dog poo outside their caravan gate and asked her to pick it up she looked at it and carried on walking the next morning the same poo had been placed neatly on the step of the offending person nothing was every said but we all new about it , maybe it was a bit harsh but why should we loose venues because some people will not pick up after their dogs

> You'd be amazed at the number of owners who allow their dogs to cock their legs in the vet's reception area or in the consult room!

I have to say that one of mine will regularly pee on the vet's reception floor - usually as she is scared or excited but I always ask for a cloth or mop to wipe it and I apologise :-)

At quite a few open shows my crate covers have been urinated on and once on my show bag!!!!!! At least at Ch shows the crates are up on the benches out of the way. Just wonder what their houses are like - yeuk!

Well being a unfortunate owner of a dog that can pee for england sometimes the little beggars catch you by suprise, however I would never stand there and allow him to just carry on but I always take water and wipes with me as sometimes even whilst being Pulled along he hops on 3 legs and carrye on :-(

I very nearly ran over a small yorkshire terrier who was being walked on a flexi lead :-( I was passing a school playing field and the little dog took fright at some children playing ball on the other side of the fence. The dog just shot into the road in front of me - so close I couldn't actually see it. The owner yanked on the lead and the next thing I saw was the poor dog flying in front of my windscreen. It frightened the life out of me and the poor dog crashed into the fence but was unhurt. The owner was terrified as well and was in tears and had never considered the possibility of her dog ever running anywhere other than along the pavement.

I see her out with her dog sometimes and although it is still on a flexi lead it is locked short.

I use a flexi lead for one of my dogs - the  terrier - but it only goes on him when we reach the fields - getting there he is on a proper lead and collar and I then swap this for a flexi attached to a long line and also a harness as it allows him to run but he has no chance of disappearing off into the horizon. Used properly - like any tool - they are safe to use.

As for weeing on other people's posessions that is just pure bad manners. A friend of mine was mortified when her dog cocked his leg on my leg :-O but at agility shows I have often seen people allowing their dogs to cock their legs on caravans, tents, awnings etc and find it so disrespectful when they just pretend they haven't seen it or blatantly just ignore it. If I see them I can't help but mention it to them.

many years ago when our rough collies were young ,  Mum lived with us , she used to pay for a life insurance and the man used to come monthly to collect the payments ... (just to set the scene) he knocked at the door I opened it and one of my roughs ran out to the gate to greet him ... while he waited for Mum.. my boy cocked his leg on the man ... I was mortified and so embarassed , he was saying 'its ok ..dont worry'  but I did and ran in the house to get something to clean it up , I then proceeded to get on my knees and wipe his trouser leg and shoes.... even now all these years later when I think about it I still blush ... but maybe not as much as he did.... what it must have looked like to the neighbours I will never know!!!!!

Peeing on other folks property is inexcusable...yet I saw it all the time at Crufts (And many other shows too), tent poles, bags, cages, peoples legs it is so rude. I have no males in my house but I have owned them before and never had a problem ! However I have on occassion others come to my house  with males and then I shut the doors to my lounge etc.. as sooo many pee on anything :-( My girlies wouldn't dream of peeing indoors ! The owners have always cleaned up though :-)
Flexi leads are safe if used right...not at full extension on the road :-O I to have seen a dog nearly run over as the owner bent to pick up a poo and her teriier on the end of the flexi wandered out into the road...she just was not watching him. How the car in front of me missed him is a miracle. She was an old lady and the man in the car stopped and was quite abusive to her, I stopped too and once he had driven off went to talk to her, she was in tears as he was very very rude but I can see his point too. She did not even realize the flexi had a lock on it !! Lesson learned but it could have been such a sad ending.
Aileen

Dont get me started on Flexi leads, i much prefer a long line for open fields etc as others have said, collar and lead for road side :)

As to boys cocking their leg, my boy (the first male i have owned) is currently at the stage where his brains are firmly located in his balls and i have a hells game ensuring he doesnt "mark" up people or their belongings. My house stinks as he is not choosey where he does it. Anyone who benches or puts crates near me is told about him as he will do it through the crate, all my family and friends who came to crufts were told about it and told to keep an eye on him if they were stood still (obviously i did too) i caught him in the nick of time on the way out of crufts as i was walking behind him and OH, he was just about to lift his leg up someones vetbed (rolled up in a bag upright) and thankfully he stopped as i yelled NOOOOOOOO.

I would be mortified if he did it up someones belongings and on the occasion that he has done i was straight in there with disinfectant.

Any tips will be greatfully received as this is driving me insane lol

Never having owned a dog just bitches who are trained to go outside no problem. Is it just a problem with dogs that live in kennels rather then a house? When on DD at the weekend I found that the kennel dogs (Male and female) were the worst in toileting everywhere whereas the house dogs would hold it in or tell you they need to go.

Both my dog and bitches are trained to go outside and are all house dogs. The problem isnt generally peeing for me its scent marking.

My boys are house dogs very clean at home but one boys hobby is peeing on anything that looks like a post.
You just get some that do it more than others.

> Is it just a problem with dogs that live in kennels

Often males that would never dream of doing it normally will do it where there is a lot of dogs about, or visiting a house that has bitches especially.

The only time my girls have urinated inappropriately is when in season.  Once I had a bitch pee in the hall of the stud dog owner, and today I had Inka eye tested at the vets where the panelist is, and she peed on the floor in the waiting room!!!!  I had taken baby wipes for cleaning of spotting, but asked for a mop.

I would expect kennel dogs to be worse though.  It is up to the owners to be vigilant and not allow it.  when ever I have had a male stay with me I do not allow them to cock their leg on lead wherever they want, they are encouraged regularly to pee in appropriate places and fairly frequent intervals, and told no firmly at any time they want to lift their leg on gateposts, lampposts, cars, walls, etc..

> I use one where necessary in fields, but would never walking near a road. I also would never use one in crowded places as it is impossible to shorten the lead (at least on mine) beyond the 'thicker' bit of the lead which doesn't wind up (if you see what I mean :-) )

Daisy, the 'all tape' version retracts completely so that you can choose exactly how much length you want.  I use one of these for my 'livestock chasing' mongrel so that I can scope out the fields before I let him off; because I don't want the hassle of swapping leads around when we walk on the short stretch of lane I like one that can be fully retracted to a safe length to suit.

I hate flexi leads, but dogs still have the ability to pee on things and embaress you at the worst times.

I was at a fun show a few summers ago, standing with my boy on a short lead watching the ring when I became aware that he was cocking his leg all over someone's picnic basket, mortified I was, why there? Why? I apologised and offered to buy them some more food, it was full of untouched food.. They were nice enough to say these things happen..

My boy on another occasion in the park, walked up to a man who was standing talking to someone, my boy cocked his leg at this man's leg, wanting the ground to swallow up was an understatement... Male dogs!!! He's not done anything like this in the past few years, but they can take you by suprise flexi lead or not..

Thankfully I don't recall him ever doing it inside....

> one of these for my 'livestock chasing' mongrel so that I can scope out the fields before I let him off;

>

I HOPE that when you do let him off after scoping the field that he stays absolutely by your side at all times ON THE FOOTPATH!  Or is it your own land?

Harkback are we feeling a little confrontational this morning :)

I could give you chapter and verse about the way I manage this dog, my relationship with the local farmer/s, and the arrangement and management of the footpaths and fencing across each specific field and track I use, together with the farmers strategy for rotating fields and moving livestock but I don't think it entirely relevant to my advice to Daisy about the different types of flexi lead available.

You might wish to make a very valid point but perhaps it would be clearer to other readers if you didn't base it on an assumption

> my relationship with the local farmer/s, and the arrangement and management of the footpaths and fencing across each specific field and track I use, together with the farmers strategy for rotating fields and moving livestock

Having had someone repeat EXACTLY the same thing to me only last month then a week later their excellent management of their dog resulting in 4 ewes aborting in our neighbouring farmer's field, and one of my ewes being mauled, so yes I aplogise for being a little tetchy when someone mentions "scoping a field" to see if there is any livestock in it!  Especially when someone admits their dog is a livestock chaser.

Though if your farmer and you have such an understanding of his rotation of grazing there would be no need to scope the fields in the first place for livestock?

In this case the first lot of ewes were sheltering under a hedge, almost impossible to see, once the dog had flushed them it climbed over 4 ft stock fencing into our land and mauled a shetland ewe.  Owner of the dog offhandly said she did not see the sheep and the farmer had not told her he had moved the flock into the field.  I can only assume your farmer posts a daily rota of turnout for his livestock?

As to relevant about flexi leads, you brought up the subject of a livestock chasing dog on a thread about flexi leads and it happens to be something very close to many people's heart at the moment in lambing season.

> Daisy, the 'all tape' version retracts completely so that you can choose exactly how much length you want

OK - I haven't seen those :) A bit useless now as our local farmer had 'permissive access' to a long stretch of his fields alongside a local road. This allowed a long walk and access to footpaths without walking on roads. As of yesterday the arrangement has come to an end (Natural England must have run out of money) and we are back to road walking if we want to walk locally :( :(

> Though if your farmer and you have such an understanding of his rotation of grazing there would be no need to scope the fields in the first place for livestock?

Harkback, thanks for the apology - I appreciate your recent experience makes you tetchy.    It's not necessary to tar everyone with the same brush though and I would willingly answer any specific question you want to throw at me.

A couple of useful facts maybe, but you're welcome to ask for more information:  On family land I still always check for livestock and wildlife, even after checking with the folks who/what is supposed to be out there.  I manage this dogs tendencies by never allowing him the opportunity to chase and, until I'm sure we are clear, he doesn't get let off - there are often sheep that have drifted in from adjacent farmers, I prefer him not to see the deer, and I won't allow him to frighten the Goosanders off the river.  Likewise on any land we have permission for it's foolish to assume the situation is clear without checking first, there are gateways and corners that I would never risk passing off lead (just in case) so the dog/s are recalled whilst we pass.  We have swans, little egrets, and ducks on the rhynes adjacent to tracks and bridleways and we have free range chickens from the nearest farm.   Just because I have permission to walk or allow dogs off lead doesn't absolve me, or anyone, of the responsibility to manage ones dog.

My flexi lead has a bit of lead at the end near the clip. so on road walking i have the lead reeled in and locked and the hand part in my right hand and i use the lead part to hold her close in my left hand. so i use it like you would a normal lead when walking a dog on your left

I  will not use them anywhere near traffic having seen the lock on one slip & a dog end up in the middle of a road. Too many people seem to think that as long as their dog is attached to the end them somewhere that all's well.

thats why you need to be holding the lead part firmly in your left hand. I think you need to know what your doing if useing this type of lead, a lot of people dont know how to use one properly and thats when you get problems

the flexi leads are also dangerous to people too ,my hubby was walking della when she was a pup on a nice tight lead (she was being road walking trained) and this big x breed came running and attacked our pup my hubby was trying to get this dog off della and it had rapped around my hubbys legs the flexi lead burnt his leg very bad! all this didnt take long to happen so when the owner of this dog apaired my hubby went mad at him and told him what a idiot he was, the laughed at him so he saw red and hit him LOL (i know he shoudnt have hit him but to laugh at our pup being attcked and hubbys leg full of blood ) the lad walked away with broken nose!

Heading at speed towards us only last week was a woman being towed along at the end of two long flexi leads by a couple of Staffie's, decided to turn around & head back up the footpath & find somewhere to get out of the way. Charged us as they came with in range, the woman struggled to hold on to them & when they couldn't reach us turned on each other. Walked away, leaving her arms outstretched unsuccessfully trying to keep them apart so she set to with her feet kicking them. I'm always wary of people I don't, know using them.

What a horrifying scenario! My experience of Flexis on an uncontrollable/uncontrolled dog is that the dog just gets a longer lever to do bad behaviour, while the human on the other end has little if any control, two strong dogs would be a nightmare.  When my previous boy was new to me, I tried him on a flexi to give him space while learning his manners.  He was able to pull me over (and did, as he had no idea he shouldn't) and even when on my feet, at full extension I had zero control.  He very quickly went back to a normal lead (and halti).

Conversely, when he was old and deaf the flexi came out again and he was able to range about and sniff etc. without fear of his wandering off and getting into trouble.  Horses for courses, IMHO.

I find flexi leads fine but only with a lead trained dog and only if you have the ability to have the concentration on the dog and not other things to distract you.